DIesels Arghhhhh

[Elliott_374322049]

Just to blow off some steam but what the heck is this country going diesel mad for. Okay ther "carbon foot print " is lower i.e they produce less co2 emissions, right that said what about the fact that they kill humans (not the planet as far as i'm concerned we are not destroying the planet, only our ability to live in this envoiroment, the planet will comfortably out live our species). So the quiet part of diesels which no one wants to say is that they produce loads of oxides of nitrogen which kills, and damages our lungs, yes petrols do to but to a far far lesser degree almost negligable amounts. On walking around a campsite recently on a Saturday morn with my little girl the site had a fog of deisel fumes that stunk the place to high heaven due to all and sundry starting their diesels up about the same time. The reason diesels are suddenly popular is because their good on fuel. Thats it! not an evioroment issue or anything else and because they use that evil 1980's device the turbocharger (which increses their NO2 output) they also have more power. If manufactures and the population got over the fact that a turbo on an ordinary petrol engine does not turn the car into rip roaring snarling evil beast, but instead can turn the engine to a much more efficient machine to the point where an economical 1.6 can produce without adverse effects to its econmy similar power outputs as a 2.0 but with a smaller carbon footprint. If this small mindedness was to stop then the Police would not have to go through the Dartford crossing during a traffic Jam asking people to turn their engines off because the extrctor system could not cope with the high level of diesel fumes now being produced. How many time have you followed a diesel and seen smoke and smells coming out whilst sitting in traffic, and i don't just mean on old transit but BMW, Mercs and Jaguars are just as bad as a new Transit. And yes manufactures are now adding DPF's ( Diesel Particulate Filters) to catch the soot (Another human killer) and reduce NO2 (Nitrogen Oxides). But they are still higher than petrols and we produce more carbon emissions making them to reduce carbon emissions? Wake up people stop killing the air quality our children breath and start reducing the amount of deisels on the road not increasing them. There sorry rant over for the minute but I am getting so fed up with diesel getting the rose coloured press lately and petrols the bum rush.

(Potentially dangerour comment removed)

This is how people behind you feel when they follow you! And the government tells us Diesels are better for us, pure rubbish. We may save the planet but there will be no one left to enjoy it!!! Diesels kill more surely than a petrol will ever do now.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

It always amazes me how some see what they want to.in otherwords

how come you decide not to mention carcinagins? why? would that be because petrol has a far greater numbers? or are you just being misled? or worse trying to mislead.

Piont of fact no matter how you look at the BIG picture diesel is the better/safer solution when one is silly enough to try to debate between the evils of petrol and diesel.

 

[spj]

Hi Elliot,

I use a diesel [and its a 4x4] because it produces a lot of torque at low down engine revs which suits towing better and with the chip I have fitted it produces even more power and smoke, previosly I had an Audi A4 2.5tdi Quattro 180bhp chipped to 210bhp, this would leave most hot hatchbacks in a cloud of black smoke from each tailpipe, most enjoyable!

On a serious note all HGVs use diesel as they are more suited for pulling weight and also burn less fuel, all manufacturers are now producing cleaner engines that are also more economical.

spj.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

sorry pressed the wrong key.

And then you go on about turbos and how they are no good on diesels,but brilliant idea for petrol cars! Amazing really as everything you said to back up your statement on using turbos on petrol engines,is indeed the actual reason why they use it on diesels!

even you NOX ideas are lame! as controls are in place to make them even lower on diesels, but you fail to mention that petrol engines as they get older actually get worse !

 

[Elliott_374322049]

Okay i see i've upset a few people if i have then i'm sorry. I was just annoyed that whilst walking around Maidstone and waiting to cross the traffic my two 5 year olds were getting face fulls of diesel smoke from nearly every car that pulled away making them choke and cough. Turbo's are the only reason diesel are popular now (drive an old deisel without a turbo and see what i mean) i was notdissmising them but on a turbo but the same turbo technologly could be applied to petrols as well as diesels i.e variable vane (petrols still use an old fashioned wastegate.etc...

As to an old petrol engine a '97 cat petrol engine assuming the rings etc. (But this would apply to a deisel as well) are okay will still walk the emissions test, but from what ive seen of friends cars there company car deisels have trouble getting through there first emission test without having the chats revved out of them before hand . Believe it or not i'm not anti deisel, i just think things are getting one sided. A face full of black smoke out of an exhaust wether it be petrol or diesel ( which just seems the most common now days ) cannot be good for man or beast. By the way i'm not against 4X4's as i drive '98 Ford explorer for towing my 'van, and very good it is to.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Elliott. in an ideal world we would have neither petrol or diesel engines,alas it is not ideal and we the paying customers have to make do with the choices we are offered.

Its ok when people say we have a choice but look at them? none are in anyway perfect,they all effect our environment one way or the other,from transport to this pc i am using and the power source it uses. sad but true..

 

[Elliott_374322049]

sadly i have to agree with you, I guess until some one comes up with cold fussion or warp drive we are stuck with what we have. By the way my kids were okay by the time we got back to my car, just as kids do they were boucing around in no time!

 

[Angus1]

After all the millions spent by scientific brains, Elliott has it all sussed in seconds!!!!

If you can see something it`ll kill you, if you can`t, it won`t. DOH!

Lets all use magic electric cars then, because they don`t emit any pollutants do they? Power stations burning fossil fuels, including high-sulphur coals imported from South America, brought here in boats (powered by diesel), well you can`t see anything when you`re on the high street can you?

This must rank as one of the daftest subjects posted on here, and thats saying something.

 

[emmerson2]

just to throw another spanner in the toolbox - my LPG Range rover emmisions are so low that the MOT man now doesn't bother to check!Oh, and it's half the price of smelly, oily diesel.

 

[Lutz]

My diesel has a particulate filter and certainly isn't smelly. So much for carcinogenic emissions.

 

[Jazman]

Does this forum and members really condone this polical anti diesel save the planet twadle? "my kids are choking on fumes" yeah ok guy and they are probably more likely to die from diabetes or smoke, drug or alcohol abuse than any effect from a tow car engine.

I drive a 3 litre diesel and pay my dues and take note of all the scientists who deny global warming, as they are not getting extra tax benefits fromm their ideas.

Wrappinmg kids in our cotton wool "PC" world is likely to be more of a danger than any car engine.

And the guy that moans is a Ford Explorer driver, so where is that built and shipped from and exactly how eco friendly is a 98 motor compared to a 2007 one.

The post just ruined the end of a great caravanning weekend, thanks a bunch!

Our political mnasters use any data they can to scare money from our pockets, () well s***w the planet because it will be here long after my kids have gone.

When Gordon Brown is in his electric Smart car and politicians are on minimum wage cycling to work and using video conferencing to cross the world and live in shared eco friendly solar powered brown field site housing near Westminster Anna and I might start to worry.

 

[Rod_5041370]

Well posted Jazzman.....I hate the tree huggers that accost 4x4 drivers in supermarket car parks then drive off in their 1987 Escorts in a cloud of smoke!

 

[Garfield]

LPG & petrol Have lower emissions??? that depends upon what emissions you are talking about, straightforward CO2 or the "nasties", LPG is 82% by weight carbon, diesel is 85% and a vehicle running on LPG will use a far greater weight of fuel than one running on diesel, so if thre goverment is convcerned about carbon emissions I do not understand why they give LPG such a tax break.

I would need to go to a 3.5 litre petrol / lpg engine to get the same torque as my 2.0 turbo diesel.

Considereing the energy and pollution of producing new cars, the people that keep old cars running are doing more for the environment than those driving their brand new euro iv cars.

 

[Jazman]

Sorry if I went off on one, but I was haranged by Eco Warriors when I got back to my car on saturday.

Smelly tree huggers who needed a good wash and shave and one with tacky dreadlocks that would have a vet calling the RSPCA in if you had a pet in the state.

One of the twanks in Tesco's later in the day, buying his roll ups and a trolley with more booze than food and leaving in a Flower Power 2CV.

LPG seems a great idea, but what eco cost is there for the extra trucks on the road delivering it and the eco cost of the converssions and sinking more tanks in the ground to hold it and the whole supply infrastructure. You even get a waft of it at fuel stations so what damage does that do?

 

[Lutz]

I know quite why environmentalists are being associated with needing, quote: "a good wash and shave and one with tacky dreadlocks that would have a vet calling the RSPCA in if you had a pet in the state.

One of the twanks in Tesco's later in the day, buying his roll ups and a trolley with more booze than food and leaving in a Flower Power 2CV"

I wash and shave, don't have any dreadlocks, drink hardly any booze and don't drive a flower power 2CV. Actually, I drive a 2008 model year Euro 4 diesel with particulate filter and object to being thrown in one boat with the type of person described above.

 

[Jazman]

I have life to run and a family and my parents to care for, what I drive is my business and suits my families need, I don't care how eco campaighners dress or lead their lives.

Being haranged because I drive a large people carrier as I return from a shop is bad enough, the people concerned looked very sheepish when my family returned but still pushed it.

The group chose to pick on me and my car and life style having no idea of what I do or what my life style is. I had a sticky green paper blurb slapped on my door window and screen by the described group.

"Get your own house in order" was my call to the guy in the 2CV as it belched smoke as it ratled past me later.

Lutz you seem to have put yourself in the boat with those described. I can assure you that they did need a good wash and there clothes to, that's not to say that all eco warriors are like that.

If any eco warior objects to my choices or new 2007 car that the manufacturer tells me has low emmisions, they should whine at the cars makers or MPs!

We go to work and then spend what little money the tax man leaves us how we want.

 

[GeorgeB]

Regardless of the rights & wrongs of ANY internal combustion engine and the pollutants that are a result of burning the fossil fuels, the simple fact is that if we knew then what we do now about pollution and its effects, the internal combustion engine, petrol or diesel, or come to it, the external combustion engines (steam to you & me) would have been killed off at birth.

But, they are here, and they have given us personal mobility, which includes being able to tow your caravan to the destination of your choice without much effort.

We all, in the UK, pay through our noses, for the fuel we use, the price of which is mostly made up of taxes, even, taxes upon taxes (VAT on top of fuel duty), so we have to make the choice, what is the most economical way of using the available fuel, so the stark choices are:-

LPG, cheapest, only because the fuel duty on it is half of any other road fuel. And also the least efficient in terms of MPG, offset by its cheapness, also happens to be the least polluting

Petrol, great for high speed & power, marginally cheaper than diesel.

Diesel, the most expensive fuel (discounting Lead Replacement Petrol) great for low down grunt = pulling power, developed at low revs, great for pulling caravans. Additional benefit usually returns approx 30% more MPG than an equivalent petrol engine.

So in cost terms, MPG divided by

 

[Lutz]

I have no issue with people who need a large car for a specific purpose and I don't go around preaching the gospel of a cleaner environment by sticking green paper blurb on people's cars but I do dislike old, big, heavy, soot and CO belching cars. That's why I decided to ditch my mid 90's 4x4 for something smaller and a bit more state-of-the-art.

I have decided to do my bit so that my children and grandchildren have no reason to blame me but I'm not going to judge other people by what they do or don't do. I do, however, get annoyed when they expect others to take the lead before they themselves are prepared to follow.

 

[KenWashington]

I have life to run and a family and my parents to care for, what I drive is my business and suits my families need, I don't care how eco campaighners dress or lead their lives.

Being haranged because I drive a large people carrier as I return from a shop is bad enough, the people concerned looked very sheepish when my family returned but still pushed it.

The group chose to pick on me and my car and life style having no idea of what I do or what my life style is. I had a sticky green paper blurb slapped on my door window and screen by the described group.

"Get your own house in order" was my call to the guy in the 2CV as it belched smoke as it ratled past me later.

Lutz you seem to have put yourself in the boat with those described. I can assure you that they did need a good wash and there clothes to, that's not to say that all eco warriors are like that.

If any eco warior objects to my choices or new 2007 car that the manufacturer tells me has low emmisions, they should whine at the cars makers or MPs!

We go to work and then spend what little money the tax man leaves us how we want.

Jazzman

Tried to email you but it was rejected.

Please email me pcvforum@templenet.co.uk

 

[Jazman]

I have life to run and a family and my parents to care for, what I drive is my business and suits my families need, I don't care how eco campaighners dress or lead their lives.

Being haranged because I drive a large people carrier as I return from a shop is bad enough, the people concerned looked very sheepish when my family returned but still pushed it.

The group chose to pick on me and my car and life style having no idea of what I do or what my life style is. I had a sticky green paper blurb slapped on my door window and screen by the described group.

"Get your own house in order" was my call to the guy in the 2CV as it belched smoke as it ratled past me later.

Lutz you seem to have put yourself in the boat with those described. I can assure you that they did need a good wash and there clothes to, that's not to say that all eco warriors are like that.

If any eco warior objects to my choices or new 2007 car that the manufacturer tells me has low emmisions, they should whine at the cars makers or MPs!

We go to work and then spend what little money the tax man leaves us how we want.

Suggest you resend.

Just been to mail box and there is nothing from you.

JH

 

[Darce]

I am amazed at the improvement in modern diesels but there is no doubt in my mind that diesels produce more harmful particulates that petrol does.

As the original post says - just go and stand behind even the most modern diesel vehicle on start up or be behind one when under load and you can see the black clouds coming out the back!

Despite what the diesel heads say - you are burning an oil. Petrol is a far higher fraction and so burns somewhat cleaner.

The best fuel for emissions is either LNG or LPG - just look at the data and it is there for all to see.

If you do not believe this then next time you cook anything in your caravan - try cooking with a diesel fire!

Then compare to the Calor gas you usually use.

I think you will find the Calor gas a fair bit cleaner!

Yes you can clean diesel up but why bother?

Finally has anyone seen the damage that biodiesel is doing to habitats around the world? - They are being grubbed up to grow crops so we can run our cars on bio-diesel.

Meanwhile those of us on LPG run far cleaner cars at half the cost on a fuel that is a waste product of petrol and diesel production.

Go figure!

 

[Del_374232870]

We have a turbo diesel with a particulate filter, also only use Shell V power diesel or BP Ultimate diesel which has a higher cetane rating which means it burns hotter and therfore burn the particles in the engine , the filter catches any particles left, recently did a 400 mile journey towing the van and there was not one soot mark on the front of the caravan.

 

[emmerson2]

We have a turbo diesel with a particulate filter, also only use Shell V power diesel or BP Ultimate diesel which has a higher cetane rating which means it burns hotter and therfore burn the particles in the engine , the filter catches any particles left, recently did a 400 mile journey towing the van and there was not one soot mark on the front of the caravan.

I don't get soot on the front of my van, either, and I haven't got any of those fancy filters. Just clean green LPG.

 

[Garfield]

How ironic to be criticised by someone driving a 2CV, even when new, the 2CV engine was one of the dirtiest engines ever produced, they weren't even that economical, our 7 seat s-max diesel can do almost as many mpg and you would need two 2CV's to carry 7 people.

"you can clean up diesel but why bother?"

Because it produces less CO2 and will pull the ar*e out of a similar sized engine running on lpg, having said this I would prefer the power delivery of a 3.0 petrol / lpg engine to a 2.0 tdi but LPG engined cars are barred from Eurotunnel and numerous other tunnels throughout Europe.

There have been numerous gas fired power stations built as they produce less pollution than coal but when these stations have used up all the gas, what do we heat our homes with?, go back to coal? at least a coal fired power station can be fitted with flue gas scrubbers that produce useful gypsum, you can hardly do that to a household chimney. Off the point a little I know but I thought I'd throw it in.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

Emmerson, been here before, so lets get one thing straight.

Your land rover lpg fueled. emmission readings should still be taken by the mot test cent otherwise the mot is illegal, mind you if you are claiming that its co2 readings are less than that of a diesel, then you are indeed mis informed as well, as they are not, never were, never will be. The nox reading would be lower but that is not part of the emmisions test anyway.