Dispicable and Disgusting!!!!!

[Gagakev]

Ok folks,returned earlier today from a week away at a really good commercial/family site.
Two things occurred, My OH witnessing the first and both of us the second.
The first one was, on one side of us was a family of five, there young daughter of aged 7 or 8 was dragged out the van by the mother and publicly smacked a number of times on the backside.They also had two tennage sons when one morning the parents took the young girl out some where, kicked the lads out partially clothed and locked the van!!
The next morning the Father was outside at about nine in the morning being sick in a Tesco bag!! My thought was, I hope that's not the result of a hangover, I sincerly hope you have food poisoning!!

The second one was a middle aged couple on there own, we were in the awning having a little drinky with the curtains fully open and then it happened, the guy came out of his van under the cover of darkness to empty his toilet, but not being bothered to walk any where he emptied it down the grey water/waste drain. DISGUSTING.
Now sat here at home my guilt is setting in OK so I couldnt get involved with the first incident as I didnt see it personally and proberbly would not have done me any good to get involved anyway. But the second one is where I think I should have at least reported them to the wardens, so the question is what would you have done?

 

[carper2]

I would have reported both of them to the wardens. The first one could have been done for abuse on all of the children especially the girl.
The second one obviously new it was wrong otherwise he would have done it in daylight. It is a good way to get Caravanners a bad name.

Les

 

[LMH]

I would have totally ignored the first one for various reasons.

Regarding emptying the toilet cassette in the grey water drain you really should have been man enough to speak to him. You could have politely asked if he knew where the area for emptying toilet waste was. You should have pointed out that it is not appropriae to empty it into the grey water waste drain, due to obvious reasons.

He might have been lazy, or he might not have realised what he should be doing. It could be a case of simply buying a caravan without knowing about certain things, such as carrying full aqua rolls in the rear area of the caravan whilst towing, that sort of thing.

Lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Firstly I wouldn't have got involved with the children issue unless it was traumatic violence.
Secondly I would have reported the dumping of the dumps to the wardens.
Thirdly could you let me know which sites you frequent Kev so that I can avoid them

 

[Parksy]

I know which site that Kev stayed on and once when I was there I also saw a lazy dirty inconsiderate slob about to empty his toilet cassette down one of the grey waste drains which are along the edge of every couple of pitches.
Luckily I saw him in time before he'd had chance to do the dirty deed so I asked him what he was doing. He tried to brazen it out and to say that the drains were the place to empty toilets and he also said that it was 'only piddle' so I told him where the elsan points are on the site (there are several) which left him with no choice other than to walk the relatively short distance to empty the cassette toilet.
I wasn't nasty or trying to be a hard man but if he'd have carried on and emptied the cassette toilet down the drain I would have immediately reported the incident to the field warden, taken the guys vehicle number and I'd have expected him to be asked to leave.
Kev, if I were you I'd still contact the site to let them know of your concerns about the grey waste drains, obviously the deed is done now but the site is fairly well run and I'd expect them to at least put a reminder in the welcome leaflet so that there is no doubt about what would happen if a caravanner did not use the elsan point. If you'd have reported the incident to the warden or to the people in reception at the time I'm fairly sure that they would have taken action.
As for the child smacking, unless you contacted the police there's not much that you could reasonably be expected to do without possibly getting into an argument or a fight so unless you were there with loads of your mates it's normally best to keep out of these family situations except where you witness dangerous abuse and cruelty when you should inform the field warden for the field that you were on.

 

[Steve L]

I quite agree with Parksey here.

Quite frankly parents who resort to public smacking or embaracing sceen's have lost the plot anyway. I've been through parenthood and our kids (now 27 & 24) were disciplined as necessary, but having said that, they never behaved badly in public anyway. We used the tried and tested bottom of the stairs method and no sweets or treats. We dished out a punishment that could be upheld, it's no good saying "your grounded for a month" unless you carry it out, and that would be a torture to you as well as them. Stick to a weekend at the most. The parents that rule by bullying are best left to the police to deal with unless you've been taught how to defend yourself . By that I mean appropriate training in self defence and the morality behind it.

On our site the chemical disposal point is very obscure and because the current (soon to change) wardens have no site plans to hand out (but a full A4 page of don't do thats), people often ask me where the disposal point is and even where the grey water goes.
I could print a map on A4 and on the back use 6 simple rules instead of 25. Then add half a page of contact numbers starting with my mobile number.
The most important thing on a site is visability of the wardens and to be there to offer advice. Wardening isn't a 9-5 job it's a lifestyle.

 

[Surfer]

I am not sure how any one can comment on the children being given a hiding as no one knows the reason why it was done. I am sure that more children need discipline in their lives and sometimes this has to be done by giving them a hiding within reaosn. It never harm us or our children who are all good citizens because they had some discipline instilled at a yound age. Perhaps lack of discipline is why we have childrena sa yound as 6 bad mouthing people and others when older stealing or even rioting! If any of our children got a hiding it was because it was a serious issue and not for some minor infringment.

 

[Gagakev]

I have just phoned the site and reported the toilet incident, ok I know its a bit late and they were very concerned but at least they understood that I was there with my family and did'nt want to enter into any conflict's and spoil our holiday. I did speak with the guy one morning on the way back from the shower block (where he left a toilet cubicle with out washing his hands!) and he was actually difficult to make conversation with so think this was part of my decision not to do any thing at the time.
Weather you think I made the right or wrong decision, I now feel comfortable that I did what was right for my family at the time and they are now aware that it happen's.

 

[Dustydog]

Kev
It does seeem this time of year brings out the cockroaches you have seen.
Smacking the kids? Well maybe a bit of a slap may stop them from being rioters in the future but from what you say they will probably become yobs like their father. You did well to stay out of that one.
Not using the Elsan point? I'd have reported him there and then. These bully type don't scare me . Usually they are all mouth and no trousers. However telling the Wardens is the best way forward . It saves ruining your own holiday.
By coincidence I have been chatting to Jo-Anne this morning and her three weeks at Hillhead were spoilt by unruly brats and uncontrolled parents.

Where do these scum come from??

What we need are the knights of the Woosie table to kick some rse and sort out these rapbags once and for all.

 

[Parksy]

Well done Kevin, I'm glad that you let the site know because it's normally well run, well maintained and families should be able to enjoy their holidays there without the risk of the holiday being spoiled by conflict and confrontation. There are I think three large 'fields' for tourers on this site and the wardens for each particular field work hard to ensure that the heated shower and toilet blocks are kept clean and that there is no anti social behaviour on the site. Because the holiday park is very large wardens can't be everywhere and unfortunately besides regular experienced caravanners the site sometimes attracts 'people who have bought a caravan' who have no thought or consideration for anyone.
To confront some of these types can be a risky business, I can totally understand your hesitation Kevin and I should imagine that you were quite shocked as any normal person would be.
I've used this site for around ten years now and I know for a fact that if these chavvy slobs make a noise, let their dogs run loose, use bad language or make a nuisance of themselves they are warned by site wardens once and if the warning is ignored they are off the site, I've seen all of the above happen and to be honest we never use this site in peak season now.
Because we are retired we are lucky enough to be able to go when the site is less busy, they often hold over 50s breaks at bargain prices and the sort of things that you were unfortunate to witness are highly unlikely to happen then. I hope that all of this hasn't put you off.

 

[Sproket]

What we need are the knights of the Woosie table to kick some rse and sort out these rapbags once and for all.

Just sent a message out for the top man .....................

 

[Gagakev]

Kev
It does seeem this time of year brings out the cockroaches you have seen.

What we need are the knights of the Woosie table to kick some rse and sort out these rapbags once and for all.

Hi DD, what I should have done is give you my Woosie leader a call

 

[Gagakev]

I hope that all of this hasn't put you off.

Hi Parksy, it certainly has'nt put us off the site, for a commercial one is as you say well kept and the wardens are running ragged but they still find time to stop and chat. We originally booked a grass pitch but changed our minds on the way up and went for a fully serviced hard standing due to the OH, daughter and grandson telling me they were going to use the vans facilities and I did'nt want to keep filling and emptying the containers. (The Woosies in the loo were banned though)The pitch we had was excellent and apart from the above incidents it was actually quite a quiet part of the site, the larger families were located more in and around the centre part of the feild, but on saying that all was quiet around 11 to 11.30 at night. Yes we will go back as a family as there is so much to keep the grandson occupied.

 

[Parksy]

I'm glad that you still like the site Kevin and I don't blame you for making your family do their woosies using the site facilities. Herself has always liked the showers because the washblocks are heated and the individual showers and toilets are incorporated into single units.
With the piped music as well, to this day I only have to hear Lady GaGa on the radio to be transported in my minds eye to the warm washblocks where every morning Lady GaGa was doing her stuff on Coast Radio interspersed with the delicate sounds of 30 or so blokes going plop plop

 

[Gagakev]

With the piped music as well, to this day I only have to hear Lady GaGa on the radio to be transported in my minds eye to the warm washblocks where every morning Lady GaGa was doing her stuff on Coast Radio interspersed with the delicate sounds of 30 or so blokes going plop plop

Thanks for reminding me Parksy, I need to collect Lady GaGa's Royalties from Coast Radio.

 

[Steve L]

Hi Kev.
You certainly did the right thing in letting the park know about the issue.
Owner operated parks rely upon us caravanners to spread the word to keep their business. The winter before last, I was so impressed by the very hard work by Adrian at Cuckoo's Corner just north of Hereford, in keeping his sight operational through the worst snow in 30 years that, I sent a site review in to PC.
As with any business, people rarely remember the 99% of the time when things go right but do recall the 1% that goes wrong. That's not a slurr on you Kev, but purely an observation by someone who has spent 25 years as a self employed contractor.
I always welcome constructive comments, as that information helps people to understand the issue and devise a plan to solve the issue.
One of my tasks in the past was to develope work process instruction sheets for every part manufactured to build a Lotus Elise chassis. The problem was however, the company employed norgwegian portugease, spanish, german, asian, polish, russian, welsh, scottish and english workers. The old addage "a picture speaks a thousand words" comes to the rescue. My pictorial work sheets were not more than 2 sheets of A4 laminated photo instructions and never failed to get the job done.
Mind you I had a secret weapon. He was known as "sprout" due to his many years of working on the fields. He was the hardest working bloke I have had the pleasure to meet. But he was a good instruction testbed too. You see he was an almost illiterate romany gypsie. He could count and understand & read 123456789 etc and his perception of pictures was brilliant. So every job sheet got the "sprout" test. The man also had a fantastic memory and could remember everything that was said to him.
My boss at the time used to hate the bloke for his origin's and often told me to get rid. But looked beyond the nationallity and fought hammer & tongue, to keep the guy working with me because he was the most productive person on my team and the easyest person to train because he had no preconceptions of how things should be done.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Steve,

I fully agree with you that pictures and well constructed diagrams are better that hundreds of words, and like wise businesses I have been involved with that have used them have seen fewer problems since their introduction.

Great stuff, but I'm not that impressed with your example. Perhaps I have it wrong, but I seem to recall that Lotus's quality and reliability left quite a lot be desired.....

 

[Dustydog]

Hello Steve,

I fully agree with you that pictures and well constructed diagrams are better that hundreds of words, and like wise businesses I have been involved with that have used them have seen fewer problems since their introduction.

Great stuff, but I'm not that impressed with your example. Perhaps I have it wrong, but I seem to recall that Lotus's quality and reliability left quite a lot be desired.....

You are quite right John,
The Lotus Elan was a real dog plagued with many weaknesses. It took the Japanese engineers at Mazda to get it right in the guise of the MX-5.

 

[Mel]

Sympathy kev, two difficult incidents, sort of spoil a pleasant break. Anyway, with regard to the first of the 2 incidents, the little girl being "repeatedly smacked "; you need to make a judgement call. Physical chastisement (a smack) is not against the law in this country. I don't agree with smacking. there are plenty of ways to discipline children without hitting them; however neither the police nor social services are going to get involved over a smack on the bum that does not leave a mark. Where you have to make a judgement call (and it is not easy) is whether the repeated smacking may be physical harm. Was it twice, three times, six times? There is no absolute level, depends on how hard, how much and how old the child is. However, if you thought it was not OK, what you should have done was telephone the police, given them the location and vehicle registration and express your concerns. If you don't want to phone the police, ring the NSPCC anonymously. What you don't know is what other concerns about the well being of a child have already been reported. Child protection is often about a number of pieces coming together and achieving "critical mass". Child Protection is everybodys business.
What I think is a bit disconcerting is that the majority of posts on here are more concerned with the bloke emptying the toilet than the repeated hitting of a young child. Bit of a worry.
mel

 

[Gagakev]

Sympathy kev, two difficult incidents, sort of spoil a pleasant break. Anyway, with regard to the first of the 2 incidents, the little girl being "repeatedly smacked "; you need to make a judgement call. Physical chastisement (a smack) is not against the law in this country. I don't agree with smacking. there are plenty of ways to discipline children without hitting them; however neither the police nor social services are going to get involved over a smack on the bum that does not leave a mark. Where you have to make a judgement call (and it is not easy) is whether the repeated smacking may be physical harm. Was it twice, three times, six times? There is no absolute level, depends on how hard, how much and how old the child is. However, if you thought it was not OK, what you should have done was telephone the police, given them the location and vehicle registration and express your concerns. If you don't want to phone the police, ring the NSPCC anonymously. What you don't know is what other concerns about the well being of a child have already been reported. Child protection is often about a number of pieces coming together and achieving "critical mass". Child Protection is everybodys business.
What I think is a bit disconcerting is that the majority of posts on here are more concerned with the bloke emptying the toilet than the repeated hitting of a young child. Bit of a worry.
mel

Thanks for your reply Mel, as I said I did'nt actually witness the incident which is no defence as my daughter and wife saw it, all I can add really is that I just hope I never ever have to witness/hear of such a thing again, its a judgement that plays on your mind, and still does, Some have said I was right which is a bit of a comfort but I still think, should I have or should'nt I have. And as you have said smacking is not illegal but to humiliate the child in public as well, was way out of order.
Kev

 

[Steve L]

DD & John, I do have to disagree with the spurious comments about poor quality of manufacture of Lotus chassis components.
What I developed were multi ligual pictorial instruction sheets to enable anyone to load a blank part in a fixture on mostly CNC milling machines and power presses, to produce the component parts for the chassis. The guys on the shopfloor were able to maintain better than 98% right first time, 99% quality inspection and produce 100% parts per hour production, without being highly qualified toolmakers or experimental engineers like myself. The chassis we produced used a glued rather than welded assembly process that elieviates distortion and again the use of certified TIG welders. The lowbake glue method actually produced a chassis much stronger than a welded version.
The only part that was TIG welded was the door hinge rotor to the side impact beam in the door assembly. That was done by a guy we knew as "mad mick bower", as the name suggest's, he was as nutty as a fruit cake, but he was one hell of a brilliant welder and someone I have the greatest respect for because he was arguably a "certified miracle worker" when it came to his welding skill's. I never had any failed door beams from him in 9 years of knowing the bloke. He could weld aluminium seamlesslyby hand and would out perform our best CNC robot welders approoved by BMW for the Mini bumper assemblies, day in, day out. I've seen him weld vintage motorcycle gearbox casings for his mates "on the sly", and you couldn't find the welds without etching the parts to show the old and new aluminium.

Lotus is actually part of the Proton group of companies and their monocoque chassis are worlds apart from the mass produced MX5. The elise was specifically designed as a road legal track day car. The power to weight ratio gave performance compatable with Ferrari's and Lambo's.

My ex MD Dereck Sweeney used an Elise for hill climb and speed trial events and it went like the preverbial off a shovel.

Anyone driving the company Elise had to be vetted by our chief developement engineer as the driving style required for the tame beast was an aquired skill. Quite a few folks did a 180 Deg spin on the first outing on the test track, because you can't simply squirt the gas and point the car where you want to go. You have to drive the car. I'm afraid with the advent of front wheel drive, some driver skills have been left by the wayside.