Do higher fines deter speeding?

[Gabsgrandad]

Government proposals to increase speeding fines from £60 to as much as £100 .
The proposed increase will also apply to fines handed out for a range of motoring offences besides speeding.
These include mobile phone use, ignoring signals and pedestrian crossings, and failing to wear a seatbelt.
Justice Secretary Ken Clarke says the increase will raise an extra £30million a year which will be used to compensate victims of crime

 

[SteveW77]

the answer to your question IMHO is no.
The only thing that will have any effect on the number of people who flout the various laws you mention in your post,is if the chances of being caught are increased. This can only happen if the number of police officers on patrol are increased and that is not likely to happen under the present government.
Saving money seems to have a higher priority than saving lives.
As you mention in your post the only gain from these measures will be an increase in revenue for the treasury.

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am sure that increasing the level of fines will deter a few more drivers from contravening the regs, but I tend to agree with Steve, there will still be some who try to work round the detection points to preserve their licence.
I do think that if on detection of an offence there was an automatic driving ban of say a month, with increasing lenghs of ban as the scale of any excess speed increased might reign in a few more potential offenders.
Increasing detection would definately cause more of the wayward members of society to toe the line, such as expanding the network of average speed detection systems. Reducing the permitted level of alcohol, and restricting new drivers in various ways such as curfews, and limited number of passengers.

 

[Gabsgrandad]

If pounds don't deter do points?
The article I was reading went on to say that the doubling of points for these offences was also being considered, ie - 6 points for an offence. Two "caughts" and out.

 

[Parksy]

The sky high insurance costs for those with points on their licence ought to be enough to make many otherwise law abiding drivers think twice about speeding etc., but what about those who are uninsured or who drive whilst disqualified?
The lack of traffic police on our roads means that there is no effective deterrent for these selfish criminals who push up the cost of car insurance for the rest of us because they are rarely caught.
Even in the unlikely event of them being stopped by police they are simply disqualified for a while longer but if they ignored their original driving ban why would a further period of disqualification have any effect on their behaviour?
The amount of money that they are fined amounts to less than the cost of a years insurance so they are quids in, imho anyone caught driving while disqualified should get 2 years in prison and uninsured drivers (if caught) should get one year inside for a first offence

 

[Damian]

Quote " imho anyone caught driving while disqualified should get 2 years in prison and uninsured drivers (if caught) should get one year inside for a first offence "

I love Parksy, he has a heart of gold and always thinks of the poor unfortunate who simply cannot afford (due to the low benefit system) to insur etheir car but need it to carry out their "other" activities, almost like legal couriers, shame the goods are not legal !

However, rather than spending a year in a prison with access to the best health care, gym facilities, 3 meals a day, clean bedding, central heating , TV etc etc etc, to which theybecome accustomed and want to return, why not fit them with an exploding neck collar, which if they turn the key in an ignition whilst banned or not insured, simply blows their head off?

Result: 1 less banned driver, 1 less uninsured driver, 1 less courier of illegal goods, 1 less sponger on the state.

 

[emmerson]

Damian, you're a man after my own heart! I've always believed in the power of pain. If someone offends, hit them with a stick. If they offend again, hit them with a bigger stick. Eventually they will get the message, and stop offending.

(Steps back behind the barricade as the do-gooders load up!)

 

[Parksy]

Brilliant!

I cant say what I really thing about the 'unfortunates' that you mention otherwise I'd have to ban myself from the forum for a couple of weeks. I'll wait until I'm due to go on holiday

 

[Surfer]

There is no evidence that speed kills, it is the moron behind the wheel. if speed killed we would have no high speed chase police drivers as they would all be dead. A fine will not deter most people as you can pay off the fine over time.
The best way around it is improved driver training for a start and then if a person is caught they work for a minimum of 4 weekends in the accident and emergency centre in the nearest hospital. The higher over the speed limit, the more weekends they have to work in A & E. However this should apply to a lot more infringements than speeding.
I also suggest that it should be applied to idiot pedestrians who jaywalk and cyclists who like jumping red lights etc.

 

[weejock]

If pounds don't deter do points?
The article I was reading went on to say that the doubling of points for these offences was also being considered, ie - 6 points for an offence. Two "caughts" and out.

Surely you mean 4 times for married couples

 

[JimD1]

How's about this for a deterrent.....?

1st offence - big fine, points etc. as normal...........then comes the kicker - for 12 months you have to drive without a seatbelt & with a 12" hardened steel spike attached to the centre of the steering wheel......that would put most people off I think.

Jim

 

[MichaelE]

In my opinion its the points that make the difference not the fine,Thames Valley ran a driver awareness scheme that you could attend a day course if caught speeding.
The cost of the course was a £100 (increase of £40) but no points on your licence, take up was very high, conditions were first offence etc.

 

[Stevel]

A FINE is such an unpleasant word, look at it as a, Voluntary Speeding Tax, you volunteer to speed, you pay up if caught....

 

[philspot1]

Well, let's be grateful we're not in Switzerland right now. Just look at what can happen to an average Briton abroad. A 23 year old student has had his car confiscated and will have to appear in court!!. Why? Well, this former pupil at £31,000 per year Tonbridge School was on his way to the Dodge Ball Rally (entry fee £5000) in his Audi R8 GT when he went over the 50 limit - at 113 mph. He stands to lose the car, valued at £157,000 (without the mods),
As I say, it could happen to any one of us ........

 

[Steve L]

The motorist is the most taxed person in the country. You get taxed on the road, taxed on your fuel and hit the hardest with fixed penalty tickets.

A policeman friend of mine once explained that the police target car drivers the most as, they are easy targets. It only takes a one form (fixed penalty fine) to process them. Where as, a hand bag thieft or house burglary takes reams of paperwork.

Raising the fine will not deter speeders as they already don't give a stuff about anyone else.

Best option would be to automatically crush their car if they are caught doing more than 30mph over a speed limit.

I regularly get beeped at for sticking to 30mph signs and when it comes to 20mph, I often get overtaken.

IMO, the police would be better deployed cracking down on lane hoggers on the motorways and lorry drivers who take 5 miles to creep past a fellow trucker who is already doing 56mph.
The other group they need to round up on, is the sunday motorcyclist's who ride like lunatics on the A44 between Worcester and Aberystwyth (known as the rabbit run). I have seen these egotistical nutters filming themselves using a second bike with the pillion rider sat backwards (sat back to back with the driver), videoing their mate who thinks he's better than Rossi at racing.

All you can here in Leominster on a sunday is loud bikes and ambulance sirens. The air ambulance is constantly having to fly out to peel some idiot off the road because he lost control of his bike.

 

[Parksy]

The born again bikers who buy powerful motorcycles so that they can let off steam at weekends can be a real nuisance.
Every weekend in rural locations the Sunday morning peace is shattered by these dangerous maniacs trying to see how fast they can go whilst completely ignoring road markings such as double white centre lines.
The only thing good about these idiots is that they end up as never ending supply of organ donors

 

[anotherDavid]

In Spain there is a system of traffic lights that will cause the next few sets to turn red if one speeds past the sensor known as Semaphore, it is very effective and also makes the speeder unpopular with the other motorists caught up in it. It will never be introduced here because it does not raise money.
Are there really people on this website who have never broken a speed limit in thier lives, I dont believe them. Speeding fines are a tax on the generally law abiding who will pay up. Motorists are punished more severly than thieves or those carrying knives who get cautioned.
As mentioned before the police target thoser who will pay, some time ago I was pulled up for having my front fog lights on and given a £20 fixed penalty, whilst them police officer was writting it out his collegue ignored a beat-up car with an headlight missing drive past.
David

 

[anotherDavid]

The sky high insurance costs for those with points on their licence ought to be enough to make many otherwise law abiding drivers think twice about speeding etc., but what about those who are uninsured or who drive whilst disqualified?
The lack of traffic police on our roads means that there is no effective deterrent for these selfish criminals who push up the cost of car insurance for the rest of us because they are rarely caught.
Even in the unlikely event of them being stopped by police they are simply disqualified for a while longer but if they ignored their original driving ban why would a further period of disqualification have any effect on their behaviour?
The amount of money that they are fined amounts to less than the cost of a years insurance so they are quids in, imho anyone caught driving while disqualified should get 2 years in prison and uninsured drivers (if caught) should get one year inside for a first offence

Justa thought, as one of those criminals with 3 points for doing 37mph, the points have not made any differnece to my insurance.
David

 

[Parksy]

The 'criminals' that I was referring to were not those who strayed a few mph over a speed lmit and were given a fixed penalty but the disqualified and / or uninsured drivers who cost all law abiding motorist higher insurance premiums David

 

[anotherDavid]

I picked up 3 points after 45 years of unblemished driving when I ran into what can only be described as a cynical police sting.
On leaving the Hull ferry terminal we found find ourselves (for the second time in 2 years) diverted through the town centre. I believe this was something to do with bridge repairs which of course have to be done it’s a pity though that they couldn't properly signpost it and prevent more than a few getting lost.
On returning to the main road we then encountered another diversion due to the M62 link road being closed without explanation. A procession of ferry traffic including foreign lorries was diverted 11 miles through country lanes. At some point a partly concealed mobile camera van clocked us doing 37mph. This was obviously a one off exercise set-up to take advantage of the road closures as the road itself would have been normally to lightly used to pay their wages.
Other posts have referred to speed awareness courses, Humberside police offered me the opportunity to attend in Hull with no alternative venue, as this would have involved a 300 mile round trip and an overnight stay I declined.

So in answer to the original question, yes it deters me and it also deters me from using the Port of Hull and helping to pay their wages

 

[SteveW77]

So in answer to the original question, yes it deters me and it also deters me from using the Port of Hull and helping to pay their wages




For which the people of Hull will be eternally grateful, as they will no longer be at risk from your admitted anti social driving..

Steve W

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello David,

I don't claim to have never broken a speed limit, but I do claim to try to stick to them, and I had a clean licence for many years previously and have been ever since. I encourage others to do the same.

I understand your beef with your conviction, but the fact for both of us we were speeding. In my case I driving in an unfamiliar part of Birmingham and I simply missed a change of speed limit sign, primarily because it was just one sign in a forest of other road signs at an entrance to a busy traffic island. The absence of repeater signs meant I was not aware of the 30Mph limit.

So many authorities are lowering speed limits, the tell tale ways of many indicating the imposed speed limit are no longer as obvious. many 40mph sections are now 30mph and the introduction of 20mph zones has distorted the traditional lamp post spacing indications. Personally I think roads should have should more speed limit sings or indicators to keep drivers aware of the limit in force. Perhaps something like reflective bands on each lamp post 1 for 20mph. 2 for 30 and so on.

I wasn't offered a speed awareness course, so I had no choice, it was three points.I did find that my insurers were not concerned and there was no change in my premiums. I can't say that would apply to every company or policy.

What I suspect we both feel aggrieved about is the way that we got exactly the same treatment as those drivers who seem not to care about speed limits and habitually or deliberately speed. Unfortunately I can't see a simple and reliable way of differentiating between the accidental and deliberate speeders.

So the only reliable method of avoiding being caught is not to speed at all. After all there is never any justification for a normal driver to speed.

 

[Parksy]

I can understand how you feel David but were there signs showing a 30 mph speed limit? Although I have some sympathy, if I lived in a quiet rural village I wouldn't be too pleased if a convoy of lorries passed through and ignored the speed limit.
I was caught out in 2001,I hadn't got the caravan on the back and I was slowing from a good country road with a 50 mph limit to approach a small town where the limit is 30mph. I didn't slow down quickly enough and was clocked by a small nondescript van in a layby with a hidden camera at 36mph - Kerching!!!
3 points and a £60 fixed penalty, I too felt at the time as though I'd been robbed by highwaymen without the masks, because the camera was obviously set up to catch the tourists out and to generate some revenue. I had definitely broken the speed limit though so it was my own fault.
My insurers at the time used the 3 points as an excuse to try to raise my premium, needless to say I changed insurers.
I don't care who or what is behind me now, I stick to the speed limits rigidly and I watch for signs like a hawk. If every lorry, white van and impatient Jeremy Clarkson type in Europe was behind me trying to push me to hurry up then that's tough, they can overtake me if they want to try but no matter what, I stick to the speed limit because I don't want to be caught out like that again.

 

[anotherDavid]

So in answer to the original question, yes it deters me and it also deters me from using the Port of Hull and helping to pay their wages




For which the people of Hull will be eternally grateful, as they will no longer be at risk from your admitted anti social driving..

Steve W

They would be really great full if enough users of P&O were put off using the port by their incompetent traffic managers and cynical revenue raisers to damage the city. I am not antisocial, I drive well maintained vehicles properly insured and do my best to comply with the rules, what I do resent is being penalised by an organisation with no purpose in mind where speed enforcement is concerned other than to raise revenue and keep themselves in a job. If they actually cared about speed they would adopt the Spanish system where breaking a limit turns lights subsequent lights red but that does not raise money and if speed awareness courses served any function other than providing even more revenue and a soft job for retired police they would be available at alternative venues that did not need victims to travel hundreds of miles to attend.
Its a TAX!

 

[SteveW77]

So in answer to the original question, yes it deters me and it also deters me from using the Port of Hull and helping to pay their wages




For which the people of Hull will be eternally grateful, as they will no longer be at risk from your admitted anti social driving..

Steve W

They would be really great full if enough users of P&O were put off using the port by their incompetent traffic managers and cynical revenue raisers to damage the city. I am not antisocial, I drive well maintained vehicles properly insured and do my best to comply with the rules, what I do resent is being penalised by an organisation with no purpose in mind where speed enforcement is concerned other than to raise revenue and keep themselves in a job. If they actually cared about speed they would adopt the Spanish system where breaking a limit turns lights subsequent lights red but that does not raise money and if speed awareness courses served any function other than providing even more revenue and a soft job for retired police they would be available at alternative venues that did not need victims to travel hundreds of miles to attend.
Its a TAX!

I hope you feel better now. It is surprising how a good old fashioned rant, can make you feel more relaxed.

Steve W