Dog charges I'll try again.

[Damian]

I must agree with LB, we also have been on many CC and C&CC sites and not heard " type of dog that just goes on and on all the time, half the time the owners are not even there.

This happens quite often in my expierence a" as posted by Steve W

I also visit many sites as part of my work, and have never heard dogs barking as described, and that is at all times of the day.

 

[Guest]

We don't have a dog and we've had verious reasons to up and leave sites but we've never ever been bothered by dogs.

We've known plenty of people who've take up caravanning because they can holiday or have breaks with the families beloved pet/s.

I suggest Klarky and co pull their heads in and go to the sad sites that don't take dogs.

My grandaughters have a little dog. It takes nothing from the sites resouces apart form may be a pint of water.

Some vanners wash the caravan and car down as well as using all the sites resources.

Dogs should go free.

 

[Parksy]

In reply to Steve W

My caravan is also better to me than any five star hotel.

The big difference is in the price per night. Because caravanning is still a form of outdoor leisure pursuit and is relatively inexpensive compared to stays in five star hotels I'm prepared to accept some compromise.

In my own experience over the past ten years I've never been troubled in any way by the type of nuisance that you described.

I've heard (and smelt) cattle at night, sheep occasionally, a bark or yelp perhaps now and again which I accept because my tin box is occupying the same glorified field as a number of others but if I was kept awake all night long by a dog barking and the owners not in the caravan ( which strikes me as a bit strange) I'd have a word with the warden or site owners next morning.

Dogs that bark continually during the day would get on anybody's nerves but I can honestly say that I haven't come across this so far.

We are usually out during the day ourselves when we go away in the caravan

 

[SteveW77]

Firstly, nowhere in my posts did I mention either the CC or the C&CC sites. Just because you have not suffered the problem of noisy dogs does not mean it does not happen. Can you honestly tell me that you have never seen a dog owner go out for the evening and leave their dog in the van to yapp every time some passes.Whether you go out every day you are away, has no relevence what so ever, every one is free to choose their own way of enjoying themselves as long as it does not impinge on others. As for telling me to stay on dog free sites, I thought that was what this posting was all about, the fact that dogs are being priced off so making my choice even wider.

Steve W

Steve W

 

[Guest]

I would venture to suggest everything is relative. Yes, a 5 Star hotel is expensive, but does it give a better night's sleep than say a travelodge? A 5 star hotel offers certain facilities that you would not get elsewhere, and therefore have to pay for them, and like many things, even if you do not use them, you still pay for them. Caravanning is dare I say it, not an inexpensive hobby. Looking at the site fees, and gas use is only a small part of it. You have to add in the depreciation costs of both tow vehicle and caravan plus the general costs such as insurance, maintenance, road tax etc etc. Stating you need the car anyway for work, is not comparing apples with apples. If you even only travel 100 miles in a weekend away and add the whole thing up and divide by the number of nights you are away, then you have a truer cost to compare. Yes, if you use the van every day, or certainly every week of the year, then you are ameliorating your costs faster, but then again your outfits are wearing out faster.

I go caravanning because I want to, not because it is a cheap way to spend my time. In fact going to Cornwall for a couple of weeks is probably more expensive than flying to Majorca and staying in a 4 star hotel with half board, and at least you get good sunshine.

As mentioned it is all relative. If you only pop down the road 10 miles every trip, then you will spend less, but if you live in an area of natural beauty, then that can be sufficient. But if you wish to see another area, then costs rise. For me to spend a weekend in York for example will cost me close to

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Firstly, nowhere in my posts did I mention either the CC or the C&CC sites. Just because you have not suffered the problem of noisy dogs does not mean it does not happen. Can you honestly tell me that you have never seen a dog owner go out for the evening and leave their dog in the van to yapp every time some passes.Whether you go out every day you are away, has no relevence what so ever, every one is free to choose their own way of enjoying themselves as long as it does not impinge on others. As for telling me to stay on dog free sites, I thought that was what this posting was all about, the fact that dogs are being priced off so making my choice even wider.

Steve W

Steve W

I didn't say you mentioned CC or C&CC sites, all I asked is where do you both hear this constanting yapping. It obviously wasn't a club site by your response so that's probably why I haven't heard it then. I must keep away from private sites in that instance because constantly yapping dogs drive me daft. I must admit though that I've never seen anyone leave their dogs in the caravan although no doubt it goes on. In their favour the dogs must be so well behaved nobody knows they are there.

 

[Steve L]

The particular site at Woolacombe that i visited is predominently a static park. On the static side hirers can have a van that is designated for dogs. There is an additional cleaning fee which is understandable and not too pricy. The vans that are used are maybe at the older end of the stock but no more than 5 years old.

I agree with the majority of you and I would stay elsewhere purely based on the dog fee criteria.

I have never stopped on a site where dogs with touring caravanners have been misbehaved, in fact I would go as far as to say 99.9% of caravanners go well beyond the norm to ensure their pets do not cause trouble. Unfortunately I can't say the same of a neighbor to our current site. While the adults live in the country house, the dogs are outside in the pen and bark all day at the slightest noise.

I still believe that somewhere within commecial trading regulations there is scope to determine if a charge for non service/product is actually in contravention of either a written or verbal contract. After all, these days you will be handed a recipt for your stay detailing cost of items included in your stay and the start and finish date. Also you will be handed a copy of the site rules which gives the owner/manager the right to kick you out if you don't comply with their desires.

To me that sounds pretty close to a contract of terms and conditions to a commercial contract of tempory leasing of a plot of ground and it's facilities.

I'm no legal beagle, but just a businessman who if he doesn't deliver what it say's on the box, he ends up in the poop!

Steve L.

 

[Damian]

Quote "I still believe that somewhere within commecial trading regulations there is scope to determine if a charge "

With the greatest respect, if you feel that strongly then you should consult an expert in the field of commercial law and contract law, which wil cost you a whole lot of money, probably only to find thatsite owners are quite within thei legal rights to make charges for dogs at whatever level they like,as they can with normal site fees etc.

Personally I will carry on doing whatI always do, if the price they want seems unreasonable to me, then I go somewhere else.

Win /win both ways, I have not paid an extortionate amount for the dogs and I have not lined a lawyers pockets to tell me what I already know.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Quote Damian .."Personally I will carry on doing whatI always do, if the price they want seems unreasonable to me, then I go somewhere else".

If I can add to that I do the above if I believe the site is overcharging on pitch fee's plus other add-ons and not just for dogs. As I said to Steve W and Klarky, I must have been lucky because I've only ever been to one really bad site and no dogs were involved there but it was private.

I will admit that I've heard dogs barking on sites where they have a facility to let them off the lead like Rookesbury Park but isn't that normal? Dogs are expressing themselves and along with tail wagging etc. It's their way of showing their emotions just as it is with us when talking/shouting or gesticulating.

If anyone has a problem with that then they have a problem with life in general.

Two weeks ago at Rookesbury they were shooting pheasants, even from the dog area, and that was even noiser than a fireworks display due to the echoing of the surrounding woodland. It started to get a bit airy when shot rained down on the roof of my caravan. Dogs barking couldn't even compete with that.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

I am sorry steve but I dont see the problem (if there is one) the same way as you do, we have a small cairn terrier who is now 14 years old and has been with us every time we have been away, the charging for dogs is not new and the variation in price is just as wide as it ever was.

what we do and have allways done is take the price of a pitch as a whole. the location the facilities and the availability of fishing all being a factor.

if a site wanted to charge us

 

[jacky3]

Could Steve W and Klarky post a list of the sites they use please because I would also hate the noise of barking dogs. We usually go to, on average, 15 sites a year, mainly CC but have never heard this nuisance thankfully. Perhaps we are just lucky. Then again perhaps were not looking for something to moan about :O)

h,

iv'e never mentioned dogs barking been a nuisance??? just would prefer dogs to be banned on sites especially where there are children???

 

[hogrider56]

Charges for dogs are just another thing where some sites are trying to make a bit more money...if they could get away with charging us for the air we breathe then they would do so.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

They'll be dispensing loo paper out of a slot machine soon unless some already do :O)

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Quote klarky .. "just would prefer dogs to be banned on sites especially where there are children"???

So you would deny families who have both children AND dogs from sites? I've seen many children taking their dogs for a walk, it's learning them to be unselfish, responsible adults and to care for all creatures and not just themselves.

 

[Dustydog]

LB said

Quote klarky .. "just would prefer dogs to be banned on sites especially where there are children"???

Dogs have been an integral part of our family since childhood.

Were you scared off as a child Klarky?? They can do wonders for phobias these days.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Damian]

Please lets not get into taking one comment and personalising it.

Klarky has made his view known, that is his perogative, the reasons behind his view are not really relevant, nor is what may or may not have happened in the past.

 

[Dustydog]

Ok Damian, point taken.

Equally, we need to remember the point of Steve L's OP.

The majority of us caravan because we love our dogs and believe it unfair to add a dog charge. So we can choose where we go. But to suggest no dogs where there are children just doesn't sit comfortably with me.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Steve L]

I concur with you Dusty.

My oppinion on dog charging is quite simple. As a dog owner I understand my obligations to ensure that my dog is not causing fellow campers concern. Hence me walking him on a lead and having one of those bone shaped doggy bag dispensers attatched to the lead for all to see and understand that I look after my pet.

I am even quite happy to pay a pound for my dog to walk the hallowed turf of the site.

However when I find sites where the "management" charge

 

[Dustydog]

Steve L,

Let us not lose sight of the fact the CC are carrying out a "dog " survey at the moment.

One of 3 things may happen.

1. Continue as now, dogs welcome and free

2. Dogs welcome but charged.

3. Dogs banned altogether.

I've filled in my form. But why are the club doing this at all?

I suspect there are a very small minority who do not like dogs and have lobbied the CC. I say it's the tail wagging the dog!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Steve L]

Probably to justify an already decided point to jump on the band waggon of charges and revenue that I'm trying to get rationalised. Hence why I ditched CC years ago.

Steve L.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I can't possibly see them banning dogs totally Steve, it would be economic madness despite laughingly someones comment that dog owners would be replaced by those who don't like dogs joining. Another point is I wouldn't for one minute think that the CC would like to see a mass exodus joining the C&CC.

My bet is that it's going to be another way of increasing revenues, egged on by those who whinge about dogs. They might find it's not such a lucrative move as with WiFi.

 

[James_374408700]

Dustydog,

I can not believe the CC are doing the survey for any other reason than to charge for dogs. Why, ....... because they can!

The original letter published in the CC magazine was 'Iffy' to say the least.

Jim

 

[Steve L]

I totally agree LB.

Considering that probably 80% of caravanners have dogs with them on holiday, the cc would have to be totally barking to ignore the fact.

However I guess the straw poll was held much in the simlar fashion that internal promotions have been handled in industry. They know what/who they want but must be seen to be "P C" to get to the result desired.

My hound is far bettter mannered than a lot of people these days.

Steve L.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Jim

I'll have to check the CC rules etc this week regarding how new rules are implemented.

As Steve L and LB say the CC will be barking mad to upset the majority of their members who are dog owners.

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Parksy]

It strikes me as odd that there is no requirement to be a CC member in order to complete the questionnaire.

Surely if the CC make an unpopular decision based on the results of their survey it could be argued that the survey is flawed and not representative of the wishes of CC members?