Dogs owning Cars.

[cris_408518]

If you are not into dogs, just move on!

I have 4 Dogs who own cars, in their minds! Put them in one of our cars and if anyone comes near they soon let you know who it belongs to ;-)

No sane person would ever try and get in with them, not saying the wife and I are sane. But they know us ;-)

When working and when Caravanning they travel with me/us. Heat is a big problem so I have an idependent fan system powered by 2 12 volt sealed batteries that will run for over two hours keeping the car cool!

Even have a digital thermeometer that to check that the dogs do not get to hot!

If it very hot, the car has a residual heater fan that that will run for twenty minutes and blow cool air frm the air con for about twenty minutes!

Last year we walked our dogs had a forty minute lunch break as they sat in the car and then took them swimmimg at the beach. As I walked away from my car I was stopped by an RSPCA operative and was asked if it was my car, I had been reported as the dogs had scrabbled at the windows as another motorist left their car.

I pointed out the secondary fan system and tried to explain about the cars own cooling option, the very rude lady from the RSPCA demanded that I open the now locked car and thrust her hand in telling me that the car heat could have killed my dogs.

I was told that my car would have been "SMASHED" open if she had found the dogs in the car. In the end I walked away from the deranged woman and left her to take my car number.

I returned to the car that was again closed and checked the temperature that was still several degrees below danger levels with the windows that now been closed for some time.

We have raised funds for the RSPCA for many years, but now no longer support them.

Is it just me or am I at fault?

My Dogs love THEIR cars.

We have windows open when they are in them and always the fans running in warm or hot weather, system has been checked that it is effective on a hot day.

Do others have this problem with people not realising that dogs barking in cars does not mean that they are in distress.

I now have warning signs that hang in front and rear windows explaining that "Car is COOLED and us DOGS are HAPPY if you go away from OUR car and leave us to our plentiful supply of cool water and buiscuits" ;-0

 

[CliveV]

Dogs in cars are always going to be a magnet for those who see a problem. I confess to have been mightily concerned on a couple of occasions myself over dogs in cars in our local car parks. However in these cases there was no evidence of a fan system and the rear windows were only open about half an inch.

We have had a problem with the RSPCA before though. Our local RSPCA rescue centre seems to be run by a group of elderly ladies who want to make life as difficult as possible. We were told categorically that we could not re-home a dog if we had cats.

Our friend who is a River Keeper was told that he could not re-home a dog because he was out at work all day. The fact that the dog would be with him all day and would probably have the best possible life a dog could ever have just would not register with these people.

When I called back at the weekend after being told in the previous week that more dogs were arriving from other centres that Friday, I was laughed at by these old ladies because I was there again within 4 days!

But before I got that response I and others were kept waiting at reception whilst one lady sat at the back doing nothing whilst the other was writing. The lady in the queue in front of me said politely "Excuse me" and the response was "Can't you see I am writing?".

To which my wife (as quick witted as ever!) said over the shoulder of the poor stunned lady in front of us "We can see that - but your colleague is doing nothing!".

That was when the condescended to deal with us and we then got laughed at for presumably being so ridiculously keen to re-home a dog that we went their twice in a week.

In the end we went to the NCDL, now "Dog Trust" and the difference was truly remarkable. We were acknowledged as soon as we walked in, with a friendly "Be with you in a minute" and after a few details were taken we were shown the dogs requiring homes.

I really do hope our and our friends experience of the RSPCA is not representative of the whole organisation.

 

[sparkes]

Sorry Cris, I cannot see how an independant fan system can cool the air. Does it have a compressor system? does it use thermal conductivity? All I can see is you are moving warm air arount the car.

I am interested to find out how you cool the air

 

[cris_408518]

There have been well recorded instances recently re babies and dogs in hot cars!

But surely before you call the RSPCA or an RSPCA inpector goes ape they look and listen!

I actually wondered if there was a market place for some sort of rechargable battery powered ventilation system for dogs in cars.

My dogs will throw thmselves at the window at any time a stranger goes near their car, it does not mean they are on deaths door awaiting escape!

 

[emmerson2]

cris I have a dog guard in my Range Rover which is lockable, so i can leave the boot lid open, but the car is secure. Had it in four RRs now and two different dogs. They seem very happy with the arrangement.Made by MMG guards in Wisbech.

 

[emmerson2]

Just found their website on mmgguards.co.uk

 

[Guest]

just a thought. A recent story here in Edinburgh concerned an owner of a Chinese Buffet restaurant who was 'accused' by his compatriots of using local dog in his menus. There are no reports of whether his business improved, or deteriorated after the news got out, but he is still operating profitably? However, I do gather the Koreans view it as a speciality. Is this a question of 'paw or tail' rather than 'leg or breast' in Sunday luncheon??

No, I admit I am not a pooch fanatic. The last one I owned was an African Bush Hound in Nigeria, who believed all males needed fighting and all females needed.........? I gave him to a Venuezuelan who took him home and he died of overweight pizza poisening. By the way, this was in the 80's.

 

[Colinn]

Hi Cris,

You are clearly a dog lover prepared to go to considerable lengths to ensure the well-being of your dogs and I hesitate to criticise, especially as I have myself had a run in with an RSPCA jobsworth.

However, there is a clue in your question: "Is it just me or am I at fault?"

You're not sure are you??

The problem with animals is that they are totally dependent on us for just about everything, and if we inadvertently let them down they have no way of forgiving us and we would have no way of forgiving ourselves.

What if your system failed, for whatever reason and however unlikely?

And as an animal lover, you will know that another animal lovers couldn't walk away if they suspected an animal was in danger. You may be convinced they're safe - but others might wonder...

Hot cars are definitely oven-killers. You or I would simply step out. Your dogs couldn't do that. You can't take the risk mate...!!

 

[cris_408518]

Colin, my only doubts were re me expecting others to understand the dogs and that them barking or scrabbling at the window is them warning others away not that they are in distress and me expecting anyone from the RSPCA to stop and listen before going off on one.

Sparkes, I bought to fans in France and have run them for three hours of their batteries.

The fans are fixed by the rear windows and powered by two independent batteries. They suck in air that is expelled out the top of the opening of the front windows. The air is constantly changing and the car stays no hotter than the temperature the dogs would experience outside, it is often cooler in the car as I always try and find shade and the cars have heat reflecting windows.

If the cars residual heat fan is used when you stop it blows cool air from the aircon for about twenty minutes until the cutout stops to save the cars battery if you want in very hot weather.

The dogs are never left for hours, even in the incident above I had been back out to the car to check on them.

 

[Icemaker]

cris, your cars airconditioning system will stop working the very second you switch off your engine as the compressor runs from a belt driven by the engine, even the newer electric a/c compressers stop due to the high current draw from the battery, you may be able to run the fan for twenty minuites but it will do no more than move warm air around your car.

With the two other fans you are using they also will only move a certain amount of air and these fans would have to be huge to remove enough air to keep the heat gain from a cars glass area below a comfortable level for dogs, my car also has heat reflective glass in the windscreen but i know of no vehicle with this glass all the way round the car. seriously if it was as simple as fitting a fan do you really think the manufacturers would spend so much money developing airconditioning systems for cars.

I am sorry but as a dog lover i would also have rang the rspca or dogs trust if i had seen your dogs in a hot car, if its worth taking the dogs its worth having them with you at all times.

 

[Lol1]

Fast those RSPCA operatives they are, from complaint to someone being on site in 40 mins, wish our ambulance service was so well equiped.

 

[AnnM1]

We had a problem with a silly little man who was a so-called green keeper. We left our German Shepherd in the rear of the estate car, with the rear windows halfway down, and with ample water available, the vehicle was parked in the shade of a huge building. This silly little man walked directly onto the bowling green, whilst a match was in progress, demanding to know: "Who owned that vehicle with the dog locked in the back, parked in the car park?". We owned up and told him that the GS was fine and was only making a noise because of him being nosy and poking his head through one of the open rear windows! A complete nutter! Our GS could easily have attacked him due to the fact that it was the dogs territory. The match, however, had been interupted and we had to go and check the dog. Not a problem to us, as there was a Police dog handler on our team side who came along to recheck the problem. He embarrassed the nosy blighter by telling him that he knew the dog and his owners and that he was not in any trouble whatsoever. He still insisted in taking our details - we withheld - and we heard no more - EXCEPT that he was relieved of his job a few weeks later!!!

 

[cris_408518]

Seems what I thought was right, with the comment here. Now I've always consideed myself a long way from brain dead! I even worked out many years ago that aircon stops when ignition goes off!

Now. I'll write slowly for those who can't keep up! Independent fans on two batteries suck air in and push it out window openings, they DO NOT circulate air in the car!

ACCURATE digital thermometer proves that car inner temp stays cooler than outside temperature with the constant flow of air, now if the dogs are OK in outside temp if the cars inside temp remains cooler wurely this is not a problem.

To help matters MERCEDES fit heat reflecting glass to ALL the windows on my two cars.

As an added bonus the residual heat fan blows air that passes over the cooling fins of the air con unit when heating is off and air on vents, air con is off but the slow moving car fan still blows cool air. On a hot med coast you can wait outside a shop windows closed with residual fan working and sit in comfort.

When the dog are in the car the aircon vent to floor only can be utilised to keep the car cool.

On the day in question the outside temp was about 85-86 degrees, the cars inside temperature was 68 degrees after the dogs had got out the fans switched off and the windows closed for a three or four minutes after the RSPCA lady arrived!

Now this is not rocket science, but a simple case of open windows that let air be pulled in and pushed out fairly rapidly so the car does not heat up like a can!

I really fear for our society with the reacton from the RSPCA and some here, without aircon you are cooled by a flow of air sucked in at speed and given route to escape. I've never heard of a dog in distress or dieing in a moving car, replicating these conditions whilst stationary is doing what wrong exactly.

My dogs want to "kill ;-)" when any stranger approaches "their" car, and it seems I may be forced to use six and a half feet of trained killing machine in a way I have never done if people can't put their brains in gear! ;-)

I guess expecting understanding is asking to much, I should claim to be an asylum seeker instead of a caring dog owner ;-)

(The local RSPCA is only about three miles from where I parked! )

 

[Icemaker]

Cris, the clue to my authority on this subject of cooling is in my handle !!, i did not miss read what you have written and you are incorect in what you state !. no amount of fans will remove the heat gain from a vehicle which is mainly glass regardless of heat reflective coatings, you will get a symptom known as hot spots, these will be in many places within the car due to the glass area, it is radient heat not latent heat!. drawing air over the evaporater of the airconditioning system will do nothing as the refrigerant will have condensed immediately you stopped the engine, it will possibly do the reverse as condenced refrigerant is warmer than evaporated refrigerant. your acurate digital thermometer? my thermometers cost in excess of 200 pounds and they need calibrating every six months and can be out by as much as 2 dg by the end of each period, and where do you place it? is it in a cooler part of the car or is it strapped to the dog so you get a reading where the dog is? i know it sounds daft but the dog can move away from where your thermometer is. on a final point the sun goes all the way round in a day, your shaded car may not be in the shade completely when you return ! it might be only 20 minuites but that is a long time in the sun. again i say its far better to take the dog with you.

 

[cris_408518]

Icemaker all though digital themometer did not cost

 

[cris_408518]

Icemaker all though digital themometer did not cost

 

[parker1158]

Hi All

Sorry to come in late (and maybe unwanted ))on this one but I only come on the forum every couple of weeks.

I'm with the iceman on this one.

I do not own a dog. I did until a couple of years ago and have always owned and been around dogs all my life (My parents have always had/have dogs).

I would never under any circumstances leave a dog in a car, hot or cold weather.

That is not to say that others should not, but in my experience the confines of a car is a very unpredictable environment to keep an animal. Ann I may have misunderstood your posting so please forgive me if I speak out of turn but I have this vision of a car parked in a public place with a dog inside that 'could easily attack' with the car windows half way down, a scenario that is asking for an inquisitive child or adult to put their hand in and pat the dog.

My experience with dogs is that as they get hotter so they get, shall we say, less tolerant. This coupled with the natural territorial instincts of such animals and the unpredictability of the 'climate' inside the car all adds up to a no no in my book.

Just on a final note, why do I no longer own a dog?

Two reasons, I see dogs as increasingly being labelled s antisocial and I believe in the future that the do-gooder brigade will get around to pets(did I read recently pet ownership is dropping as each year goes by)

Secondly my last dog a black and white Springer spaniel was an absolutely perfect specimen and I know I could never replace him.

 

[cris_408518]

Martyn.

Again, I am not brain dead yet.

I have two large people carriers the windows left open when the dogs are in residence have grills to prevent the dog getting out or foolish or criminals ( they would have to be brain dead)hands getting in.

The only thing my dogs are likely to savage is the dog meat at home, they are full of bravado in the car. If a stranger gets in the car they go quiet and head for their harnesses and their travelling positions

The dogs know my travel and work routines and will happily sit in the car when I'm on site working, Mum dog even goes and get their favourite travel blanket if it is not in the car and always checks the Beta Biscuit supply is on board!

I run 5 miles a day with them most days and they are great companions to my wife and I.

They do not EVER get left for hours, despite Iceman and others concrns they have a proven safe environment in the car.

My original post was re the ignorance and rudeness of the RSPCA woman and my own questions re basic understanding of others. It seems that others have to judge guilty without actually looking or understanding simple basics.

The car park I was in belongs to a beach restaurant, the Mazda MX5 driving woman busy body that called the RSPCA came into the Restaurant that I and my family were sat in as that is what the car park is for.

What sort of caring behaviour that was concerns me!

 

[Damian]

I have justread through the postings here too, and a few things kind of worry me, a little.

Firstly, Cris starts off with dogs,fair enough, but then they turn into "six and a half foot trained killing machine", and utters some kind of threat towards anyone who has the affront to disagree with his postings!!, even with a smile, if thats what its supposed to be.

If the dog is a "trained killer", why is it ever left unattended by the handler? Who "trained" the dog?, Why is this dog left free to roam the interior of the car, and why is there any chance of a child or other passer by being injured by this dog?, even if they do put their hand through an open window?

If the dog(s) are free inside the car, what happens if you have an accident? the dogs, being unrestrained fly forward at hugely increased body mass, and kill the driver and / or passenger, whoever they hit first.

Ah well,just a few thoughts.

Oh, and I agree with icemaker, dogs in cars on hot days, even with ventilation,NO

 

[parker1158]

The only thing I would add on the subject of RSPCA and other 'good intentioned' interjectors is that if they make a thousand wrong inquires, a thousand miss-informed investigations and have to be berated by hundreds of people who object to them' sticking their noses in' if in all this they discover even one animal in distress and manage to rescue it then in my book it would have been all worthwhile and they have my full support.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

As the owner of 3 small dogs I have tried to put myself in this situation and I know that theres no way, no matter how clever or technically qualified on thermal convection/air conditioning (which I'm not), I could never leave my dogs in the car. All mechanical paraphenalia has a propensity for breaking down and if anything happened to my dogs from my actions I could never forgive myself. Just the thought of it turns my stomach over. No, I just couldn't risk it. :O(

 

[cris_408518]

I've never met a six and a half or so foot Spaniel! your Government trained me as a big killing machine ;-) a few years back now.

For a big guy I am very calm and peace loving, I've dealt with drunks, road rage, idiot offensive customers and contractors over the years and have always been able to be "Mr Cool" and I rarely lose my temper.

I and my wife and family have also been supporters of the RSPCA for many years. The attitude and approach of the RSPCA woman had me near to throwing away years of good behaviour her approach was so aggresive. I had one fit healthy dog on its lead, showing no signs of distress, heat trauma or suffering. All she wanted to do was join her mum and brothers runnig in the nearby field with my wife and family.

If it were not for the dog on the lead I really was worried that I could have hit the woman, something I have never ever done.

As said the windows have protection for the dogs and for security so no child or adult is going to get bitten!

I well understand the valuable work of the RSPCA and we have raised as a family several thouand pounds for the cause over the years.

But surely a litle respect and assesment before launching into an aggresive verbal tirade is not to much to ask for!

 

[Lol1]

Mercedes people carrier, would that be a Vito?

 

[cris_408518]

No

 

[Lol1]

A V class?