Electricity cost in UK

[otherclive]

When and if we ever get close to Net Zero, I wonder where will the government will get the money to replace the money that has been lost due to no VAT or duty income from fossil fuels and associated areas like vehicle servicing and motor spares.

As there will be enormous job losses with many staying unemployed another VAT loss as they will not be spending money. Also losses from probably not being able sell oil to overseas markets?

How has Norway been able to cope?

For motoring and road vehicles you will probably pay per mile of usage and modified by time and and area of use. Taxes can be applied to usage, energy consumption when charging, plus flat rate road use too. Electric vehicles still need servicing and parts just as ICE. The work involved in a modern ICE service comprises mainly checks. There will undoubtedly be job losses, but there will be job gains too. The demographics show a declining work force so it may be that controlled immigration may be required over the period of transition.

How has Norway coped ? Could it be that they looked at their long term strategic objectives and not for short term gain which was, and is, the U.K. approach to investments.

 

[GUMPY]

Norway kept it's oil and gas in house.
UK sold it's oil and gas off
That's why Norway is so rich as it kept the profits rather than giving them away.

 

[PTA]

Norway also used its oil revenues to build a huge sovereign wealth fund instead of using them to fund short term tax cuts.

 

[otherclive]

I was reading that a consortium including Octopus are seeking to develop a high voltage dc cable called Xlinks from Morocco to U.K. The cable will bring electricity estimated at 8%?of U.K. demand from a huge solar and wind farm the size of London. A factory to be built at Hunterstone would be the world’s first dedicated HVDC cable production plant and employ 900 people. In Morocco the construction will employ 10000, and 2000 when it is operational.

An exciting prospect if it goes ahead.

 

[Buckman]

In Morocco the construction will employ 10000, and 2000 when it is operational.

Is that correct? Is it one thousand or ten thousand?

 

[otherclive]

Is that correct? Is it one thousand or ten thousand?

The area is the size of London and its 10000 workers to be employed in construction of the giant wind and solar farm including battery storage.

2000 to operate and maintain it.

 

[Buckman]

The area is the size of London and its 10000 workers to be employed in construction of the giant wind and solar farm including battery storage.

2000 to operate and maintain it.

Gotcha! I was a bit puzzled by the figures. However by the time the power gets to us, it will probably cost more than local power when every one takes their cut after it is "landed" in the UK. Good idea, but greed is more important than any consumer.

 

[otherclive]

Gotcha! I was a bit puzzled by the figures. However by the time the power gets to us, it will probably cost more than local power when every one takes their cut after it is "landed" in the UK. Good idea, but greed is more important than any consumer.

It will cost more than local renewables but the CEO stated in last Saturday Times that negotiations are in hand between the two governments and project to develop the cost-price basis. Don’t forget once in Britain the imported electricity coulld potentially be exported to Europe via our interconnection cables.

There doesn’t have to be greed in business agreements.

Morocco-UK Power Project - Xlinks

xlinks.co

 

[Buckman]

There doesn’t have to be greed in business agreements.

Morocco-UK Power Project - Xlinks

xlinks.co

Wish that were true! What I have always found puzzling is why we depend on other countries for our electric supply when we have so many natural options like hydra available. If they can manage hydra in Africa with all its droughts, hydra should be a breeze in the UK.

 

[otherclive]

Wish that were true! What I have always found puzzling is why we depend on other countries for our electric supply when we have so many natural options like hydra available. If they can manage hydra in Africa with all its droughts, hydra should be a breeze in the UK.

Africa for all its droughts have some very large rivers that make ours look like streams, and the potential to tap into hydro power in Britain is far less, but tidal power could be an option that can be relied upon 100% as long as the Moon stays alongside Earth.

The impact of climate change on hydropower in Africa | Oxford Policy Management

www.opml.co.uk

 

[Buckman]

Africa for all its droughts have some very large rivers that make ours look like streams, and the potential to tap into hydro power in Britain is far less, but tidal power could be an option that can be relied upon 100% as long as the Moon stays alongside Earth.

The impact of climate change on hydropower in Africa | Oxford Policy Management

www.opml.co.uk

Going back to our posts 132 & 133 regarding costs perhaps I should elaborate a little bit on my statement. The power when "landed" in the UK may be 4p a kwh, but it needs to enter the national grid so a cost is added, then you have distribution costs i.e. cabling from National Grid to premises, the national pool etc.

After that you still have meter operator, data collector, data aggregator costs, commission costs and also supplier costs. In other words too many fingers in the pie which pushes up costs.

Very sad, but the supply of electric in the UK needs to be simplified and some players taken out of the game.

 

[RogerL]

Wish that were true! What I have always found puzzling is why we depend on other countries for our electric supply when we have so many natural options like hydra available. If they can manage hydra in Africa with all its droughts, hydra should be a breeze in the UK.

Scotland already has a lot of hydro-electric installations - but over the whole of the UK there are few suitable places to add to that provision - we could theoretically cover the Lake District and North Wales with new dams and reservoirs but there are too many existing "interests" to make that practical.

 

[Dustydog]

The cost must be astronomical. What happened to the idea about mini nuclear power stations?

 

[RogerL]

The cost must be astronomical. What happened to the idea about mini nuclear power stations?

Mid 2030s according to this previous government release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...-next-stage-of-nuclear-technology-competition - no idea if the change of government alters it.

 

[otherclive]

The cost must be astronomical. What happened to the idea about mini nuclear power stations?

That’s going ahead as the HMG agency GBE have shortlisted the companies for the next stage and the nuclear regulator is looking at the designs of SMRs just like they do for larger nuclear power stations and submarine reactors site . I believe RR have been selected as the lead candidate to supply SMR to the Czech power agency.

WRT the Xkink, Morocco is planning other large scale renewable schemes so one way or another the costs of the in- country installations will be borne by someone, so the long cable cost would be an “” extra” fir UK, but SMRs whilst potentially attractive still bear the costs associated with nuclear plants, such as regulatory approvals, costs to have any changes approved prior to implementation, end of life disposal costs etc. This array of costs will be expensive for the first installations but would amortise as the number of installations increase. Doubtless to many people having an SMR on their doorstep would not be popular, so they will most likely be located on existing licensed nuclear sites which have the power networks local to them.

 

[otherclive]

Mid 2030s according to this previous government release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...-next-stage-of-nuclear-technology-competition - no idea if the change of government alters it.

The new government has recently announced that the list of companies shortlisted has now been reduced from 6 to 4.

UK SMR Competition Narrows Contenders to Four Nuclear Designs

UK narrows SMR competition to four contenders. Westinghouse, GEH, Holtec, and Rolls-Royce SMR vie for multi-billion-pound contracts to deliver operational SMRs by the mid-2030s. #UK #nuclear #SMR #energy

www.powermag.com

 

[ProfJohnL]

... Doubtless to many people having an SMR on their doorstep would not be popular, so they will most likely be located on existing licensed nuclear sites which have the power networks local to them.

One of the supposed benefits of SMR's is they can be integrated into a locality without the need for big power upgrades on the network. It's more likely if HMG does decide to go with SMR, they will change the licencing requirements. A lot of smaller producers spread around would provide a far more resilient grid. This used in conjunction with lots of local storage either home batteries or community batteries and vehicle to load EV systems - (managed properly) could make power generation failures virtually a non event for users.

 

[otherclive]

One of the supposed benefits of SMR's is they can be integrated into a locality without the need for big power upgrades on the network. It's more likely if HMG does decide to go with SMR, they will change the licencing requirements. A lot of smaller producers spread around would provide a far more resilient grid. This used in conjunction with lots of local storage either home batteries or community batteries and vehicle to load EV systems - (managed properly) could make power generation failures virtually a non event for users.

The biggest advantage is that they can be prefabricated in a factory without the need for mega construction sites. Using existing licensed sites would significantly reduce timescales as risk assessments have been done but would only need to be updated. Emergency plans and supplies are available for easier updating. The security measures wrt moving nuclear fuels are in place, physical security via the armed Civil Nuclear Constabulary is available, and regular annual or biennial emergency exercises are already in place. You cannot believe how much work goes into safety when a nuclear submarine with a clean reactor first goes critical as part of the build process. The other major advantage of existing licensed sites is that nimbies might object to further use, but cannot stop the Goverment granting approval to proceed.

The link below gives an idea of what goes on to ensure risks are minimised. . In this case there were major shortcomings. Pleased to say that did not happen when I was there and we received a good outcome for HM submarines Vanguard and Victorious. 👍 Similar processes would probably be required for each SMR, as nuclear accident badly managed could sound the death knell for not just SMRs but all nuclear.

Exercise at nuclear submarine yard exposes serious safety failings

BAE Systems to rerun mock accident after mistakes at Barrow dockyard that could have put lives at risk• Read the report from the Health and Safety Executive

www.theguardian.com

 

[otherclive]

I read that Rolls Royce have suffered a loss of £78m due to delays in the government SMR programme. It’s a fact if life in projects that delays intended to slow financial outlay, or delays in decision making costs the project even more money. HS2 being a glaring example and HPC which was estimated at
£18 bn and EDF are looking for even more money to take its estimated completion cost to nearly £50bn.

Rolls-Royce suffers £78m loss on mini-nukes amid UK rollout delays

Company moves ahead with Czech-backed project as Britain’s selection process for SMR technologies drags on

www.telegraph.co.uk