Enduro Motor Mover

[Motobiman]

Blocks because most jockey wheels don't have enough movement to jack the front up high enough and clearly you got to stop before the back end hits the ground.

Alright agreed the wife may not be heavy enough to swing it.

You only have to lighten the load not lift the non-driven axle clear to make a real difference.

Caravans are lightweights compared to even cars on trailers and even small yachts weigh more than the you biggest caravan.

Anyway clearly you don't need my advice so I'll duck out.

 

[Dustydog]

Blocks because most jockey wheels don't have enough movement to jack the front up high enough and clearly you got to stop before the back end hits the ground.

Alright agreed the wife may not be heavy enough to swing it.

You only have to lighten the load not lift the non-driven axle clear to make a real difference.

Caravans are lightweights compared to even cars on trailers and even small yachts weigh more than the you biggest caravan.

Anyway clearly you don't need my advice so I'll duck out.

"Peanuts"??
As you said you have no experience of caravans.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Blocks because most jockey wheels don't have enough movement to jack the front up high enough and clearly you got to stop before the back end hits the ground.

Alright agreed the wife may not be heavy enough to swing it.

You only have to lighten the load not lift the non-driven axle clear to make a real difference.

Caravans are lightweights compared to even cars on trailers and even small yachts weigh more than the you biggest caravan.

Anyway clearly you don't need my advice so I'll duck out.

I still don't understand how you can use blocks to provide more lift that allows you to swing the trailer.Where do you put them and how do they allow you to swing the trailer. As you say once the bake of the trailer hits the ground you can't raise the nose any more, so how does a block change that?

Dont give up, if you have a genuine solution to the problem then i'm sure many of us would like to read it.

 

[Motobiman]

Yes peanuts.
Caravans are only half the weight of a fin keel cruising yacht or an off-roader or digger on a trailer.

They are lightweights.

 

[Motobiman]

Blocks to stop the driven axle suspension compressing so the non driven axle can be unloaded before the back end hits the ground.

It makes twin axle trailers easier to move about without a tow truck on the front, loaded or not.

The loads you are talking about are less than the bare trailers I am used to.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Blocks to stop the driven axle suspension compressing so the non driven axle can be unloaded before the back end hits the ground.

It makes twin axle trailers easier to move about without a tow truck on the front, loaded or not.

The loads you are talking about are less than the bare trailers I am used to.

If the bare trailers you are refering to have so much more mass than caravans, then you are not comparing like for like. You are referring to industrial/commercial trailers, not domestic trailers such as caravans. Whilst the types of forces involved with turning multi-axle trailers will be virtually the same, the scale of forces and the mechanical linkages will be very different.

Do you honestly move multi axle trailers loaded with diggers or keel boats by hand?

I can see how using blocks inserted into the suspension systems of leaf and coil sprung vehicles/trailers can be used to reduce the suspensions compliance range. Unfortunately virtually all caravans use independant rubber in torsion tubes which means the swinging suspension arms have no corresponding structural support above them to allow your blocks to be used.

Many years ago one caravan manufacture did sell a TA with an axle lifting device. I don't know why but it was not a success.

You also mention a driven axle, Well unless you have a caravan mover fitted you do not have a driven axle on a caravan.

Please enlighten me If I have got this wrong.

 

[Motobiman]

I wasn't trying to compare like with like.

I wa just pointing out there are other solutions to this issue and your caravans are lightwirghts in the towed vehicle field.

When I used the term drive axle of course I was talking about a caravan.

Yes we do have to move loaded trailers without tow vehicles attached sometimes using winches and blocks and tackles but I am not suggesting you do that with your caravan.

Look mate, if your not willing to read about other people's experience with an open mind you are never going to learn anything.

Think I'll leave this group ....... It's just another place for narrow minded knowalls to pronounce on about things then know little or nothing about.

Bye

 

[Dustydog]

Goodbye and thank you for your views which sadly to a know it all twin axle tugger demonstrates to me you haven't got a clue about caravans.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Look mate, if your not willing to read about other people's experience with an open mind you are never going to learn anything.

Think I'll leave this group ....... It's just another place for narrow minded knowalls to pronounce on about things then know little or nothing about.

Bye

Hello Motobiman

I'm sorry you feel that way.

The evidence of the two threads you have been active in suggest quite the opposite, You have posed a question and you have accepted new suggestions and exchanged ideas. Where something is not clear contributors have asked you for more information. So I'm not sure how you have come to your conclusion.

If a new suggestion or idea is made it's open to reasonable debate. But that can only occur if all relevant information is made available otherwise inappropriate conclusions or advice maybe given.

Having established after two cycles of posting what you meant by blocks, and how to use them, I used my knowledge of caravan construction to come to a considered opinion.

However there is nothing wrong with the principle of unloading one axle on a twin axle caravan to help maneuvering, its the practicality of achieving it on the caravan. There is simply not enough chassis or suspension structure to locate and support the simple "blocks" suggestion. The swinging suspension arm has no chassis structure directly above it and the angle the arm makes with the horizontal members when it move precludes the use of even a wedged shape which will cannot be securely held without additional components. So we are into the realms of specialist components

That is not a narrow minded approach its a considered conclusion.

 

[Steamer]

An old thread, but I would just like to add some personal thoughts to it.
Regarding the wet movers mentioned earlier in the thread, I have just purchased an E-Go Plug & Play mover by Purple Line. These movers are detachable with quick release pins and electric plugs. Essentially the movers stay in the car boot until they are needed, which keeps them clean and dry. They also improve caravan ground clearance, which is often reduced by adding a mover and when the weight of the caravan is already close to 100% of the kerb weight of the towcar, putting the motors in the boot makes sense.
They have an offset design that allows the mover to operate around shock absorbers etc, though I can imagine that certain things like wheel carriers and pipework might still need moving.

This is what Purple Line says about your twin axle issues:
'The e-go PLUG & PLAY uses Quattro® technology. This intelligent modular system, featuring soft-start, allows any model in the e-go range to be used on single, twin and AWD installations. The system even allows retro-fit upgrades meaning that a twin system can be upgraded to All Wheel Drive at any time. This clever technology gives you ultimate flexibility, future proofing your purchase.'

I am not sure if this can do away with the tyre scrubbing, but a motor on each wheel and a nifty computer to control all four wheels has got to be a step in the right direction. A pair of these movers can apparently move a caravan up to 2250kgs. Our single axle van is 1750kgs and they seem fine on our gravel driveway.
Because I was concerned that the jockey wheel might struggle on gravel, I replaced the single solid jockey wheel with double pneumatic wheels and it moved about without any difficulties. I figured double the wheels, halve the load on each wheel and with a greater foot print/ surface contact area, this should help too.
I mention this because some in this thread have concerns about the jockey wheel digging in when they try to lift the non-driven axle. Perhaps fitting a tandem jockey wheel will help,
The last point I would like to make as it hasn't yet been mentioned is perhaps a little extreme, but valid if you need to make a 180/ 360 degree turn within the length of the caravan and you have a twin axle van. Remove the wheels on the non driven axle!! Takes 5-minutes to remove a wheel, so no big deal really.
Here are a few video clips if anyone I'd interested.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz_ibe7gv7U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyhumre5WOA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cnXmX_gmWI0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yH4ooW0bNBw

 

[otherclive]

An old thread, but I would just like to add some personal thoughts to it.
Regarding the wet movers mentioned earlier in the thread, I have just purchased an E-Go Plug & Play mover by Purple Line. These movers are detachable with quick release pins and electric plugs. Essentially the movers stay in the car boot until they are needed, which keeps them clean and dry. They also improve caravan ground clearance, which is often reduced by adding a mover and when the weight of the caravan is already close to 100% of the kerb weight of the towcar, putting the motors in the boot makes sense.
They have an offset design that allows the mover to operate around shock absorbers etc, though I can imagine that certain things like wheel carriers and pipework might still need moving.

This is what Purple Line says about your twin axle issues:
'The e-go PLUG & PLAY uses Quattro® technology. This intelligent modular system, featuring soft-start, allows any model in the e-go range to be used on single, twin and AWD installations. The system even allows retro-fit upgrades meaning that a twin system can be upgraded to All Wheel Drive at any time. This clever technology gives you ultimate flexibility, future proofing your purchase.'

I am not sure if this can do away with the tyre scrubbing, but a motor on each wheel and a nifty computer to control all four wheels has got to be a step in the right direction. A pair of these movers can apparently move a caravan up to 2250kgs. Our single axle van is 1750kgs and they seem fine on our gravel driveway.
Because I was concerned that the jockey wheel might struggle on gravel, I replaced the single solid jockey wheel with double pneumatic wheels and it moved about without any difficulties. I figured double the wheels, halve the load on each wheel and with a greater foot print/ surface contact area, this should help too.
I mention this because some in this thread have concerns about the jockey wheel digging in when they try to lift the non-driven axle. Perhaps fitting a tandem jockey wheel will help,
The last point I would like to make as it hasn't yet been mentioned is perhaps a little extreme, but valid if you need to make a 180/ 360 degree turn within the length of the caravan and you have a twin axle van. Remove the wheels on the non driven axle!! Takes 5-minutes to remove a wheel, so no big deal really.
Here are a few video clips if anyone I'd interested.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz_ibe7gv7U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyhumre5WOA
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cnXmX_gmWI0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yH4ooW0bNBw

Thank you for the posting and videos. I never really looked at what the Enduro Plug and Play is although I know Enduro movers have been around now for a good number of years. Must say it’s an interesting concept and someone’s clearly put a lot of thought as to one way of keeping within MTPLM and retaining payload which on today’s caravans isn’t that great.

 

[Steamer]

I was attracted to it because our van doesn't have any on board 12v electrics and the Plug & Play movers come with it's own battery contained within a case. Also, we only need a mover to get the caravan round the side of our home, where it is extremely tight. I don't find I need a mover at any of the sites we usually visit, so I'll leave the whole mover system at home and just bolt it all back on when we get back.

Thinking about the debate about which axle to bolt movers onto. With this system, you can buy an additional crossbar which bolts onto the chassis. That way if you have just two motors, you can choose which axle to fit the motors to as and when the situation dictates.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I agree the concept is good, as it does keep the towed weight down. But I do have a minor complaint about the statements made in the Enduro's plug and play video about weights and what it means to have a first generations mover.
Perhaps its different abroad, but in the UK most caravans already have a battery installed, so the weight increase is just the mover. You don't need big holes cut through the floor as wiring can be routed with only small holes. The space used by the mover is not used by anything else so its not detractineg from user space. Assuming the movers have been designed correctly, ground clearance should not really be a problem unless you are going off roading, again which 99% of UK caravanners do not do.

But overall the Plug and Play does provide some unique and potentially useful benefits, Not only does it reduce the pay load for travelling, it does mean its relatively easy to perform maintenance on the mover's motors, gear boxes and rollers.

The other video that was interesting was the comparison between movers.I certainly agree with the principles behind the tests as being relevant, and especially the braking performance on a slope. But I am marginally concerned that the different current measurements would have been affected by the state of the battery which all they told us was it was monitored for not dropping below 12.5V. but we don't know how high it was, which between 13.8 and 12.5V would make nearly a 10% difference in current draw.

Comment for Steamer;

Removing a pair of wheels from a TA would make it manoeuvre far more easily, but it's not desirable or practical.
Just consider arriving home, and before being able to get it onto your drive, having to jack it up and remove wheels whist its still on the road with traffic trying to get around you. If your not on the road, you would still need enough access to the wheels and hard ground to support the jack etc.

There would many who would not have enough space to refit the wheels after the caravan has been positioned, and its not a good idea to leave a TA standing just using one set of wheels as it could cause the loaded suspension to take a set, and be less compliant next time its used.

 

[Steamer]

:side: What impressed me about the plug and play mover was the long controller to battery cable in the case. It would allow you to remove the 12v battery from the case and connect the plug and play system to an existing on board 12v leisure battery. In that way no extra weight is carried.
It not a concern for space because as you say, movers occupy a space which is not normally used and even if it is occupied with drainage pipework or wheel carriers, these things must be moved anyway if any mover is to be fitted.
Our driveway is easy to pull the caravan straight on and off the road, which enables us to unpack and wash the van, but then we need to move it to the other side of the house where is is stored. If we had a twin axle, I wouldn't think twice about pulling off a couple of wheels to make manoeuvring easier. For those people that store their van on Winter Wheels, the wheels have to come off anyway.

Essentially Purple Line have further developed the Enduro motors to be detachable. That's a 35kg weight saving if you know your not going to need a mover on your trip or if your already close to your MTPLM. You have the option of sticking the motors in the boot increasing the towcar weight and making the outfit more stable.

Also, if you are not very DIY competent, the Plug & Play system comes pre wired and is easy to bolt into place. Took me about an hour. Motor Mover fitters will not like a system that enables any person to fit themselves and will probably do much to put people off buying them.

As for the comparison tests. I can't say anything for or against, but given that they list other movers manufacturers and motor models by name, I am sure the tests would be carried out like for like. Ie. Same caravan, same battery charge, same slope angle etc. Otherwise they could be open to a legal challenge.

I don't have anything to do with Purple Line. I just wanted to highlight something different that may help people who are scratching their heads with traditional movers.