Exceeding the maximum towing weight.

[Surfer]

Legally you cannot be stopped for exceeding the maximum towing weight of a vehicle as long as you do not exceed the maximum train weight. We are quite keen on the Antatra as it has the electronic handbrake and is a bit more economical than our present vehicle, but auto has a maximum towing weight of 1700kgs and our caravan has an MTPLM of 1800kgs. We had it upgraded as normally the MTPLM would be 1695kgs.
Antara has a generous payload of over 400kgs and with both of us plus luggage we would have about 200kgs available. By moving 100kg from the caravan into the car will reduce the weight of the caravan down to 1700kg and the unit will still be safe, however even if we did nto do this the combination should still be safe as the vehicle is a lot heavier than the caravan. Kerbweight for car is 1936kgs and gross weight is 2370kg. I am assuming that gross train weight is 4070kgs.
Our train weight would be approximately 3871kg with about 200kg to spare with the towing vehicle being a lot heavier than the caravan. What tow car seem to rate it as a good match. My only concern is with the caravan being plated at 1800kg and the vehicle VIN plate showing gross maximum weight of 2370 and 1800kg add up to more than the maximum gross train weight, but physically the actual weight is below maximum train weight. Maybe it would be better to remove the plate on the caravan to comply with the law and have no plate or to downgrade it. Not sure where to go with this one as the Sorento 2.2L is out of our reach.
What do you think?

 

[Steve L]

You will immediately be breaking the law is you remove the vin plate on the caravan. All caravans have to carry an identification plate stipulating the max gross weight.
I used to tow a caravan that was 60 kgs over the towing capacity of our Renault Laguna. I simply loaded the caravan light by 60Kgs and placed some items in the car instead, but being mindfull not to overload that. I did use a public weigh bridge to make sure we complied with the vehicle weight plate.

You are quite right to say that you would not be nicked if the trailer vin plate showed that you could be over weight if the van is fully loaded.

So I am at a loss to understand the "thinking" in removing a legally required vin plate, when you clearly understand the position on towing trailers.

To me it's like poking a wasp's nest and not expecting to get stung

 

[Lutz]

Without a VIN plate on the caravan, the powers-that-be wouldn't be able to check whether it exceeds its MTPLM or not. Besides, as far as technical towing legality is concerned, it's the actual weights that count not whether the sum of the car's max. GVW and the caravan's MTPLM exceeds the permissible gross train weight. It's driving licence restrictions where only the respective maximum values are taken into account.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Surfer
The matter of actual weights vs maximum limits has been covered with you on several previous occasions, but both Steve and Lutz have covered the legalities again.
I suspect that if you were stopped and you didn't have a data plate on the trailer, where it is obviously of an age to require one, the authorities are likley to be more inquisative and be more thorough in looking at the outfit.
Without a data plate the authorities may have assume the load limits of the trailer are zero, thus the trailer is automatically overloaded, and thus illegal, and prevent you from continuing with it.
I'm fairly sure they can issue a none compliance note requiring you to make the trailer compliant with the marking regulations.
Don't forget that it is the drivers responsibility to ensure the vehicle (or vehicle and trailer) are fully road legal which may require data plates so that loading can be checked for compliance.

 

[Surfer]

I have had it confirmed that a weight plate is not requried on a domestic trailer if the GVW of the trailer is under 2040kgs so I have no issue on that front. This changes in Oct 2012. My post as per the heading was about exceeding the maximum towing weight, but within the gross train weight of the towing vehicle.

 

[NigelHutson]

You first statement is simply not true. If you exceed the Manufacturers towing limit, then you can (and I have first hand knowlege) of drivers being prosecuted for "using a vehicle for an unsuitable purpose".
I would imagine it would be quite difficult to exceed the Manufacturer's towing limit and not exceed the train weight anyway. Why do you think that manufacturers have maximum towing limits?
As has been previously said though, it's the actual weights that count, and that's what any prosecution would be based upon.. The plated weights only give the limit, but exceed those at your peril.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have had it confirmed that a weight plate is not requried on a domestic trailer if the GVW of the trailer is under 2040kgs so I have no issue on that front. This changes in Oct 2012. My post as per the heading was about exceeding the maximum towing weight, but within the gross train weight of the towing vehicle.

I have been unable to find any official source that supports Surfers contention above.
It is counter intuitive not have weight limit information on the vehicle to which it relates, other wise how will a user know what it is designed carry ?
I strongly suspect it is am illegal suggestion and should not be taken up by caravanners or any other towers.
I quote from Parkers
http://www.parkers.co.uk/company-cars/news-and-advice/advice/Archive/Towing/#1
"Other legal requirements:
Since 1982 all trailers, including unbraked ones, must be clearly marked with their maximum gross weight in kilogrammes."
Also look at the National Trailer and Towing asocaition

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/law/identification_plates.aspx?oo=41648119&askid=cd06d623-2015-4d85-94d2-80c3102ff9b7-0-uk_gsb

 

[Lutz]

Also, all new caravans which are already subject to type approval MUST have a plate in order to be able to identify the type approval number, as this is not documented anywhere else.
Without a plate, how would one be able to check whether the caravan is overloaded or not?

 

[Lutz]

Check this:
18. Plates (statutory) The technical provisions of: Directive 76/114/EEC as amended by Directive 78/507/EEC;
And
Where the vehicle is the subject of a multi stage build a plate is required on completion of each stage as appropriate.
(taken from The Road Vehicles (Approval) Regulations 2009 Schedule 4 Part 4)

 

[Surfer]

Moderator Note:
Deliberately antagonistic posting removed.