Feeling vindicated..................

[ProfJohnL]

This thread seems to be getting unnecessarily heated.

It is the site owner who has the right to choose who they invite to use their site, and if they choose to sell to only invite adults then so be it. As caravanners we have no automatic rights of entry to any private land.

It is just the same as any shopping you do, you don't go to a butchers and ask washing powder, Equally a shop keeper is not obliged to serve any one if they choose not to, though it does depend on reasons and not infringing any discrimination laws.

So why expect a site owner to offer you pitch if you have a family in tow and the site is advertised as adults only? If you cant match the sellers criteria, then shop elsewhere.

Now onto behavioural discussion. It seems quite few contributors are upset at the way some children and adults behave. I do not like intimidation, belligerency or threatening behaviours and I have outlined above why I believe that such behaviour is happening and probably on the increase.

We all tend to notice such behaviour, especially if we have been directly subject to any of it, but we must be careful to recognise that victims are particularly sensitised to it, and if we look at the wider picture we can see plenty of examples of perfectly acceptable behaviour.

Sadly it is oh so true that a few bad apples can taint the whole barrel.

I mentioned a report that suggest that lack of parental contact can lead to problems, but the report also identified that children that form gangs also feed off the inherent bad influences the gang sees and sets.

There was muted praise for some sections of society that try to positively help, and I am proud to be a Group Scout Leader, An organisation that tries hard to instil what I believe is good moral code.

If you were a Scout or Guide, then why not contact your local group to see if your experience can be put to use. I know my group is in need of volunteers and I am sure most would be glad to receive extra offers of help especially those who would consider becoming warranted leaders.

 

[chrissie2]

This thread seems to be getting unnecessarily heated.

It is the site owner who has the right to choose who they invite to use their site, and if they choose to sell to only invite adults then so be it. As caravanners we have no automatic rights of entry to any private land.

It is just the same as any shopping you do, you don't go to a butchers and ask washing powder, Equally a shop keeper is not obliged to serve any one if they choose not to, though it does depend on reasons and not infringing any discrimination laws.

So why expect a site owner to offer you pitch if you have a family in tow and the site is advertised as adults only? If you cant match the sellers criteria, then shop elsewhere.

Now onto behavioural discussion. It seems quite few contributors are upset at the way some children and adults behave. I do not like intimidation, belligerency or threatening behaviours and I have outlined above why I believe that such behaviour is happening and probably on the increase.

We all tend to notice such behaviour, especially if we have been directly subject to any of it, but we must be careful to recognise that victims are particularly sensitised to it, and if we look at the wider picture we can see plenty of examples of perfectly acceptable behaviour.

Sadly it is oh so true that a few bad apples can taint the whole barrel.

I mentioned a report that suggest that lack of parental contact can lead to problems, but the report also identified that children that form gangs also feed off the inherent bad influences the gang sees and sets.

There was muted praise for some sections of society that try to positively help, and I am proud to be a Group Scout Leader, An organisation that tries hard to instil what I believe is good moral code.

If you were a Scout or Guide, then why not contact your local group to see if your experience can be put to use. I know my group is in need of volunteers and I am sure most would be glad to receive extra offers of help especially those who would consider becoming warranted leaders.

That is exactly the sort of thing I have in mind, John. It seems in some quarters children are assumed to be trouble before they are even given a chance to prove otherwise. Just as an example, for the past twenty years, we have been lucky enough to live in a pleasant village, with good facilities and a primary and secondary school that are much in demand. We moved there because we thought it was an ideal place to bring up children. So did all our neighbours, so at the time the street was full of children. Since then, they have all grown and flown their respective nests, but the parents, finding it still a pleasant place to leave have stayed put. Last year, the couple who had lived next door for the whole of the time we have been here, decided to move to New Zealand to be near their grandchildren and the house was bought by a couple with primary age children. When I mentioned this to a colleague at work (herself a mother and grandmother), her immediate reaction was 'Oh, I am sorry! How awful for you!' Yet we are actually delighted to have some children in the streeet again and the worst that has happened in six months has been that the odd football has landed in our garden. But she was made the assumption that children automatically equal trouble, as it appears do many others.

I do think children should be encouraged to use their time properly, but this is just what most parents who take their children caravanning are trying to do: to get them into the open air, away from the TV and computer, teach them a little bit about the countryside, and also teach them to behave in an acceptable way around other people of all ages.

The behaviour that Clive suffered - three instances of actual, serious damage to his outfit in less than three years, is very unfortunate, and certainly beyond 'just an accident'. Of course, in those circumstances, if the perpetrators are known, as I assume they must have been, then of course, they, or their parents if they vere young, should pay. But Clive's experience is really at the extreme end of anything I have ever heard about on a site. We have never experienced, or heard of, anything comparable in over twenty years and I would maintain that our experience is far more typical of the vast majority of caravanners.

My concern is, that if the negative attitudes are not challenged, children will never get to mix with people from other generations, never have the opportunity to learn from them, or learn what are acceptable ways to behave towards them. Parents, too, are going to feel more and more isolated and unsupported. Yet, I see many out there with parenting skills as good as, or better than those of my generation. Not all parents reach the highest standard (they never did), but surely we should acknowledge and encourage it when we see a good job being done?

 

[Guest]

John L.

You make valid points, but having lost the use of one site as the owners have decided to make it adult only it concerns me that it might become a growing trend.

The site in question now has cheaper running cost I'm told but their prices have not shown that.

Adult only sites are not so common in Europe so whats so different about the UK I have to ask.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Euro,

To answer your question you will need to ask the site owners, it is their choice. However I suspect there is some commercial advantage to them.

It seems implicit in your reply that you feel you have a right to use the site, technically you are invited to use the site if you fit the owners criteria.

Have you seen their accounts and thus have evidence that the running costs are lower?

This is only an assumption but perhaps with the added cost and inconvenience of maintaining the site for whole families was just becoming unprofitable, so rather than increase charges, they reduce their overheads or direct costs by limiting their clientele. Its called niche marketing.

I cannot comment regarding the status of the rest of Europe, but the report identified that in many parts of Europe, spending quality family time is far more common, and it infers that where this is the case, there are less disruptive and antisocial activities involving young people.