Feeling vindicated..................

[CliveV]

Consider the vitriol expressed of late and the silly "I don't want to discuss this so delete the thread please Mr Mod" posts!

Is it not worth noting that Vic, in his initial post said that he had been "vilified and even censured"?

No change in attitude from our more aggressive posters then - based upon what I see.

Am I right in thinking that we have a group of people that as soon as they believe their parenting skills are being challenged in some way they go into attack mode and try to vilify anyone who dares to have a view different to theirs?

 

[Guest]

We went to Lunch upposite Hampton Court the other day. Some adults there seemed not to notice the two children in their family group throwing bread rolls and talking over the Adults. If you can judge by how people dress and what they drive and the way they speak I would guess they were pretty well off and well educated.

Of course according to some here we must have brought it upon ourselves!

We were seated well away but were slightly aware of the behaviour and one of our group saw one of the adults throwing a bread roll back at one of the children as she passed them.

Can't say that our lunch was spoilt but then we were not nearby, but no doubt some here will draw conclusions as to how the behaviour would translate to a camp site scenario.

I guess we are just to old fashioned CliveV. Somebody needs to be !

 

[RickyLionheart]

I've come to the conclusion that some of you on here have forgotten what it's like to be children

 

[baxtjhn@aol.com]

CliveV,

I agree,it seems that some people cannot handle debate especially if it differs from their own opinion.

I also feel that anyone mentioning that phrase "ADULT ONLY SITE" is branded a child hater.

Its quite simple really,we all want different things,from our holidays.

Most of us have been there,done that and look for something different now and why not..freedom of choice and all that.

What difference does it make if some choose adult only sites,how does it affect any of us..really..think about it!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe some of the posts are from parents who's children do not behave and accept poor behaviour and cannot see any wrong doing .

Now before the lynching party are mustered think about it....

generally speaking if a child is bad you have to look at the parents and what they deem as good/bad behaviour.

So whats wrong with some of us not wanting to be part of or be on the recieving end of that behaviour

regards john.b.

 

[RickyLionheart]

Quote" What difference does it make if some choose adult only sites,how does it affect any of us..really..think about it!!!!!!!!!!"

If you deem it necessary to use these sites then use them.

What I don't understand is why you feel the need to bleat about it

 

[Guest]

Well Ricky I had an idylic childhood, we were brought up partially in the country and partially in Africa and the far East.

I have fond clear memories of my childhood and of my loving caring Parents and Grandparents etc.

We were taught to respect others property and adults space, we could be singled out as we were in foreign climes. We had plenty of fun and games but being high spirited active children did not encompass upsetting adults and strangers we came into contact with.

And we also learnt table manners!

When vistors in a foreign country our parents employers could terminate their employment in those days if we had not behaved in an appropriate manner.

Mine and my childhood friends parents were accountable for our actions as children and we had a great childhood without 24/7 TV, video games etc.

We also had the toys of the day before you ask or comment.

 

[baxtjhn@aol.com]

Ricky Lionheart,

I have never actually used an Adults only site but like many others have contributed to the debate with my own thoughts on the matter.

If you feel that is "bleating" about it then sadly you are not used to debate

regards john.b.

 

[Guest]

ps.

There are a limited number of camp sites in the UK and some in lovely places, but travelling with children excludes many of us using the sites.

My issue is that "Adult Only" seems to have become more popular because some have no idea as to what is acceptable behaviour from children.

If some adults and their children respected others property and need for a bit of peace and quiet and obeyed a few simple rules we would all have more choice of where we could pitch camp.

 

[CliveV]

I've come to the conclusion that some of you on here have forgotten what it's like to be children

Not at all - but some of us have stopped behaving like them

 

[coljac]

Euro wrote " Derby and Joan hiding behind some trash reading running others down ".

Sorry but your comment is trash, how do you know what they are reading ?? you must have been very close.

Now that is tounge in cheek,but the point is Choice if you want Adult Only then Book Adult Only. If you want children running round, albeit well behaved grandchildren then book accordingly.

Val & Frank

Euro, It sounds like you were parked among the Victor Meldrew society. But i bet you had a better holiday with you 2 grandchildren than the enviouse misseries around you.

I have a single axel van and a Citroen C5 .The fact that you have a large double axel with a large tow vehicle is part of the diversity of caravnning .Good luck to you

Coljac

 

[CliveV]

CliveV,

I agree,it seems that some people cannot handle debate especially if it differs from their own opinion.

I also feel that anyone mentioning that phrase "ADULT ONLY SITE" is branded a child hater.

Its quite simple really,we all want different things,from our holidays.

Most of us have been there,done that and look for something different now and why not..freedom of choice and all that.

What difference does it make if some choose adult only sites,how does it affect any of us..really..think about it!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe some of the posts are from parents who's children do not behave and accept poor behaviour and cannot see any wrong doing .

Now before the lynching party are mustered think about it....

generally speaking if a child is bad you have to look at the parents and what they deem as good/bad behaviour.

So whats wrong with some of us not wanting to be part of or be on the recieving end of that behaviour

regards john.b.

Agree 100% john.

 

[Vic_5039745]

Consider the vitriol expressed of late and the silly "I don't want to discuss this so delete the thread please Mr Mod" posts!

Is it not worth noting that Vic, in his initial post said that he had been "vilified and even censured"?

No change in attitude from our more aggressive posters then - based upon what I see.

Am I right in thinking that we have a group of people that as soon as they believe their parenting skills are being challenged in some way they go into attack mode and try to vilify anyone who dares to have a view different to theirs?

Nice one Clive.

From what I said in my original posting, this thread has gone into a form of meltdown which I did not intend to happen.

I was merely pointing out that the editorial staff at The Caravan Club Magazine had seen fit to publish two letters from members that supported my view and another letter from a Club Site Warden backing up what I had been accused of lying about earlier this year. This from an organisation who had been roundly accused en masse of creating the thin end of the wedge by throwing in their lot with a Managed Under Contract site at Stroud Hill Park in Cambridgeshire which happens to be an adult only site.

To those parents who say "I taught my kids right from wrong and how to behave I say "of course you did" - we all did. But peer pressure is a powerful force and how do you know what they're getting up to 500 yards away on the other side of the caravan site with a group of kids who you don't know from a bar of soap? You can only assume everything is OK but you don't know - not for certain and it's naive to think you do.

I spent 26 years bringing my son up to know right from wrong or so I thought and the silly ****** got done for drink/driving in the Summer of 2005. That happened while our backs were turned on holiday and we were presented with that little bombshell as we walked through the door.

So as I said, you think you've brought them up right, but they'll continue to surprise AND upset you.

As for whingeing, well that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyone who knows me will tell you that you'll be left in no doubt when I decide to have a whinge, trust me!

Cheers!

Vic

 

[CliveV]

I do not have any grandchildren - tho with a 24 and 20 year old its is going to happen! And I will want to take them on holiday/let them use the 'van.

The good thing about this debate is that it has made me think about how I would feel if one of my regular favourite sites did not allow my grandchildren.

Interesting one that!

 

[ProfJohnL]

I don't see why you have cause to complain CliveV, If when loosing the argument you resort to personal abuse the moderator has every right to remove your inflammatory remarks

Getting back to the point you say that you have had your awning ripped by a "kid on a bike" and your caravan dented by a ball and your dogs "tormented" by kids running through your pitch,I'm sure these incidents were all accidental and not deliberate acts of vandalism

Accidents happen, even on adults only sites

That's life

Live with it

Yes accidents do happen on adult sites - thats why we have children!

 

[sunnybunny]

ps.

There are a limited number of camp sites in the UK and some in lovely places, but travelling with children excludes many of us using the sites.

My issue is that "Adult Only" seems to have become more popular because some have no idea as to what is acceptable behaviour from children.

If some adults and their children respected others property and need for a bit of peace and quiet and obeyed a few simple rules we would all have more choice of where we could pitch camp.

Well said, I totally agree!!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Variety is the spice of life, and than heavens we are not all the same it would be so boring. Most of us accepted that its down to personal choice as to which car you drive, caravan you buy, so surly it should a matter of personal choice if you wish to choose Site A over Site B, for what ever reasons you may have.

For adults, if you choose to use a site that allows families, you must come to expect that there will be some noise from children.

And for families, we have to accept that some sites may cater for adults only and therefore are not available to you.

The debate seems to have shifted from the provision of sites, to the behaviour of people, and here I do not differentiate between adults or children.

We all have our own standards which we use to judge others, and it is almost certain that we will come across some people who in our opinions fall below our reference. But this will be a two-way thing, and to others, our behaviour may be questionable. - Who is right? Well its not a simple equation and if we were to be judged by a third party, there would probably be positives and negatives on both sides.

What is important is to try and avoid any activity that is likely to cause annoyance to any other site user, and to that end I do agree that the behaviour of some people to-day falls well short of that criteria.

Where it is simply carelessness, shouting is one thing, but sadly there are too many cases where behaviour is apparently belligerent and threatening and that is clearly not acceptable.

I see a major difficulty in knowing what we can do when we are threatened or attacked. We are allowed to use 'reasonable force' but what is reasonable? - It seems anything that physically touches one of our antagonists is deemed to be an assault.

The law needs to be rebalanced and clarified, so that the rights of the victim are more important, than the rights of the offender.

 

[CliveV]

Wow! John well put!

Particularly as I have just watched a report on BBC news at 6pm where an NHS Trust was heavily criticised for pandering to a Psychiatric Patients rights rather than that of the general public.

The result was a tragedy with this demonstrably ill individual being let out for a walk in Richmond Park where he stabbed and killed someone he had never met before. The NHS Trust felt that the patient's human rights superseded those of the rest of us - including as it turned out a chap on his bike who just happened to ride past this individual and was stabbed to death.

Thank goodness we are not dealing with the same extremes here, AND please nobody think I am equating this poor guy with children! - but I am struck by the similarity where those that want to lecture the rest of us and say - you have not done this or that or have forgotten this or that - are in effect saying that children have more rights than the rest of us and are allowed to do what they want with impunity.

With this sort of attitude I can only see the "adult only" sites going from strength to strength. The site owners are not stupid. They will take the easy option that makes a profit for them.

Can not say I blame them.

 

[Chrissylizzie]

I think some of the problem with SOME children of today is that they are not taught that different situations require different behaviour. It seems that just because they are children then some parents just let them behave as such, regardless of where they might be. If they were taught that if adults are talking etc. or sitting in a restaurant eating, that children had to be a bit quieter then adults might be more tolerant.

Children should be boistrous out in the fields, the garden, the beach etc. but not in other places if not appropriate and not without considering others. Children who are not taught these differences are the ones that nobody wants to visit their house, so parents who do not differentiate these values, are not doing their children any favours. We ALL have to learn these lessons otherwise socialising would be hell!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Further to my posting above, and to review Chrissylizzie's posting just above, there was a recent report that concluded that British parents spend much less time with their children than most other nationalities, and as a consequence British children grow up with less well developed social skills and perception of what is acceptable behaviour.

The problem is that children need role models, and if they are deprived of adult contact during their formative years, they latch onto the behaviour seen on television and in computer games, and substitute that as a role model. Sadly most of the characters on television and in games do demonstrate imbalanced set of social skills. Children not having had the experience of a balanced set of social interactions will tend to accept what they see on television as the 'norm' and so their own responses become biased.

The tragedy is that we are beginning to see a second generation of children whose parents were the first ones to have this onslaught of computer games, and so the traditional values that I hold are being left behind.

I do not know the answer to this, but I sincerely hope that something can be done to increase the time parents have real contact with their children, and to allow some tradition back into our youngsters experience.

 

[Chrissylizzie]

Further to my posting above, and to review Chrissylizzie's posting just above, there was a recent report that concluded that British parents spend much less time with their children than most other nationalities, and as a consequence British children grow up with less well developed social skills and perception of what is acceptable behaviour.

The problem is that children need role models, and if they are deprived of adult contact during their formative years, they latch onto the behaviour seen on television and in computer games, and substitute that as a role model. Sadly most of the characters on television and in games do demonstrate imbalanced set of social skills. Children not having had the experience of a balanced set of social interactions will tend to accept what they see on television as the 'norm' and so their own responses become biased.

The tragedy is that we are beginning to see a second generation of children whose parents were the first ones to have this onslaught of computer games, and so the traditional values that I hold are being left behind.

I do not know the answer to this, but I sincerely hope that something can be done to increase the time parents have real contact with their children, and to allow some tradition back into our youngsters experience.

I totally agree John, and for some considerable time I have felt television was not helping. Most children watch the 'soaps' and there is not one where people have any considered discussion or consideration for others and I think this is spilling over into Society. The general impression is that you can say what you like, when you like and how you like with often an aggressive attitude and us older (only slightly!!) ones, know that that is not a good way. I agree, lets get back to old fashioned attitudes and, no, that doesn't have to mean boring!

 

[Moonstone1]

John I quite agree. Although I am in my late 30's, I still have family values and hope I have passed them on to our children. We all eat together as a family, we eat the same, if you don't like it - tough we're not a cafe. That type of thing. We maybe don't play enough with our children now, but we did and hopefully that has instilled family values to them. At school my children are the odd ones out, as they are not allowed the freedom that some of their friends are - and most certainly we are the only family we know of with 'two' parents still together (how sad!) I also think computer games don't help and my two are rationed on the PS2 and we don't have any other games machines. They are also restricted on tv and don't watch soaps etc, more likely to watch coast or a good documentary. They like music and drawing and the odd game of football in the right place.

Again - well said John.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

This debate will go on and on until people with children realise that the criticisms aren't levelled personally at their children/grandchildren.

There can be no doubt that there are some right little sh*** out there with bigger sh*** as parents and these are the people that the criticisms are aimed at.

Surely we have all seen them on sites, if not you have been very lucky or when caravanning wear rose tinted specs. I've only had a caravan for a few years but already I've seen my fair share of the sweet little cretins with their moronic parents. On the positive side I've seen more polite well behaved children than bad.

Ive mentioned this before but at Winchcombe I saw one sweet cherub, after finding he couldnt hit the ducks with his tennis raquet, he started throwing the raquet at the ducks, all in full view of his parents. This was after watching his mother chasing the ducks and trying to kick them. On the opposite side of the driveway was a mother kneeling down with her daughter feeding the ducks bread. What a difference in parenting skills. The following day the lil' cherub was chasing the ducks around our van and I went outside and left him in no doubt what I would do with his raquet if he didn't leave the ducks alone. His parents didn't even bother with me telling him off, they just carried on eating and boozing with their friends.

 

[RichardS1]

This debate will go on and on until people with children realise that the criticisms aren't levelled personally at their children/grandchildren.

There can be no doubt that there are some right little sh*** out there with bigger sh*** as parents and these are the people that the criticisms are aimed at.

Surely we have all seen them on sites, if not you have been very lucky or when caravanning wear rose tinted specs. I've only had a caravan for a few years but already I've seen my fair share of the sweet little cretins with their moronic parents. On the positive side I've seen more polite well behaved children than bad.

Ive mentioned this before but at Winchcombe I saw one sweet cherub, after finding he couldnt hit the ducks with his tennis raquet, he started throwing the raquet at the ducks, all in full view of his parents. This was after watching his mother chasing the ducks and trying to kick them. On the opposite side of the driveway was a mother kneeling down with her daughter feeding the ducks bread. What a difference in parenting skills. The following day the lil' cherub was chasing the ducks around our van and I went outside and left him in no doubt what I would do with his raquet if he didn't leave the ducks alone. His parents didn't even bother with me telling him off, they just carried on eating and boozing with their friends.

I agree Lord B, I think you have hit the nail on the head with this post.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Yesterday I was picking up my 5YO and had this conversation with a boy from her class who was waiting for his grandmother to arrive.

"Are you ......s daddy"

"Yes I am"

"Where is her mummy"

"She's still at work"

"How often do you have her"

"Errr, all the time"

"So when does her mummy have her?"

"All the time"

The look on his face was definitely puzzlement.

I was telling my brother this and he said that a girl in his daughters class had told his daughter that it was better that her parents were split up because she got twice as many presents!

 

[LMH]

I keep trying to read this thread but my eyes can't seem to get by the first few posts...................

Lisa