Feeling vindicated..................

[CliveV]

Garry - sorry mate but I am not interested in sorting out other peoples problems when I go off in the caravan.

I go away to get away!

If you think I am going to play social worker to any kid who starts being naughty then you have another think coming.

Oh and by the way - you were VERY LUCKY if your second story is true. These days - if you marched a child back to their house by force it is YOU that would be had up for assault.

And you have to be REALLY desperate if you have to use a silly TV program on OAP's with ASBO's as a reference source! LOL!!!

Not only do I think you are trying to see the world thru' rose tinted glasses but I think you are dangerously naive. If you think I am exaggerating - just ask any solicitor or policeman.

My advice to anyone reading this thread is to simply NOT put yourself in the position where YOU could end up being accused of something.

Hence my preference for adult only sites.

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Clive

I never said I forcibly marched him back, I said I knew where he lived (I did not) and walked with him. I think the end result was probably better than if I had reported him to the police.

I don't know why you think the story might not be true - it is.

It seems an unlikely story to make up.

My whole point is society as a whole is changing and sitting back and moaning about it achieves nothing.

I am not religious but there is something in the bible about the person who turns away from ill being as bad a sinner as the perpetrator (or similar) - there is a lot of truth in that.

I used the OAP ASBO thing as an example of an extreme - I thought that was fairly obvious.

 

[CliveV]

Garry - your words were:-

"I made him take me back to his parents"

Still say in this ridiculously politically correct world where

a) drug addict prisoners get an out of court settlement for basically being in prison

b) the "have a go hero" in Salisbury (15 min away from me - and this was in all the national and local press) who tackled a robber who was trying to break into a jewellers and was arrested and charged with assault by the police. This guy stated publically that after his ordeal if he saw the same thing again he would cross over the street and not get involved.

c) the middle aged chap I met in Salisbury Caravan centre in March this year buying a replacement window for his caravan at over

 

[CliveV]

Hi Clive - I am one one of the brigade you refer to, but I must admit I always take responsibility for my childrens actions. We always use CL's ourselves as we don't like the all singing/dancing sites, because they don't suit our lifestyle, and we are seeing more and more families using these. I too don't like children running around vans/pitches and quite understand that dogs are territorial and have advised my children accordingly to value other vanners spaces.

I also agree that British children are some of the worst in Europe and it doesn't surprise me either.

I once saw on a CL, a group of children from 2-3 vans, chase some chickens around the field, in front of another van with a dog, which jumped out of the awning, caught the chicken and killed it. Very sad, (dogs owners so apologetic) but the worst of it was - the parents of the children, sat in their group, drinking and laughing at the whole scene.

I believe you Janet!!! :0)

 

[JeremyClarksson]

CliveV

I think if you read my 12:16 post again you will see we are not that far apart in our views, I am certainly not one of the liberal minded do gooders you mention.

I am pointing out that because....

1. the liberal minded way in which the wrongdoers human rights are looked after and the victims rights are ignored

2. people chose to turn a blind eye to things that go on around them

3. most criminals know that even crimes that are seen will go unreported

4. fewer get past the police and subsequently the prosecuting authority to the court

5. wrongdoers of all ages see little punishment for their action.

6. Moral and family values have been allowed to slip making the very behaviour you mention acceptable.

The only people who can reverse this trend are the public at large and you do not do it by turning a blind eye.

I am not advocating a return to a clip around the ear or capital punishment or hordes of caravanners forming a vigilante organisation.

I am simply saying if you do nothing expect nothing to be done.

 

[CliveV]

Apologies if I misinterpreted the meaning of what you said.

It would seem that the area we really differ on is that you are saying if you do nothing the situation will never improve.

Whereas what I am saying is that due to the bizarre PC cult that exists at present, those that do take a stand can and do, get shafted. Whereas the perpetrators get compensation for their "distress" at being caught/imprisoned/held to account etc.

 

[GillandMike]

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Vic merely expressed his preference for Adult only sites. It's his preference as it is others for various reasons (mine included here). But we are all differant. When our kids came with us we looked for sites with good play facilities. Now they have left home and don't come on holiday with us, we look for sites that are quiet and less likely to have lots of children or go to Adult only sites. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if there were a number of Families only sites in the same way if there were NO Dog sites. Everyone is differant and chooses to spend their holidays in their own way and shouldn't be condemned for saying so.

Gill

 

[JeremyClarksson]

Agreement on both counts.

I was advocating using the law rather than breaking it -

perhaps by reporting crime to the police or even genuine misbehaviour to parents or other authority figures on site,if the kids take no notice of a stern look or a quiet word.

I would love to see a return of values - say to something like the spanish seem to use, but it is society not the law that keeps these values, unfortunately the law just reflects the values of the society it exists in.

 

[JimF]

We as recently retired pensioners are very much in favour of adult only sites!. We have never used one and dont intend to!, but they perform a valuable service in keeping all the sour old gits off the normal family sites!. We have been trailertenting/caravanning for over 30 yrs and love to see and hear children enjoying themselves, as our own boys did as children. Of course there are more nasty little brats than there used to be...but not as many as some seem to believe.

for goodness sake ENJOY yourselves dont always be eager to be offended

JimF

 

[chrissie2]

We as recently retired pensioners are very much in favour of adult only sites!. We have never used one and dont intend to!, but they perform a valuable service in keeping all the sour old gits off the normal family sites!. We have been trailertenting/caravanning for over 30 yrs and love to see and hear children enjoying themselves, as our own boys did as children. Of course there are more nasty little brats than there used to be...but not as many as some seem to believe.

for goodness sake ENJOY yourselves dont always be eager to be offended

JimF

Exactly, Jim! We are in much the same position. We find sites without kids lifeless and dull. But if those who can only see the negative side of children volunteer to take themselves elsewhere, our enjoyment will be that much greater!

 

[Geordie]

Woh Woh Woh, folks where is all the negativity coming from.I thought vanning was all about freedom of choice and doing your own thing, but it is pretty obvious thats not the case. Just for the record,Im 49 with three grown-up sons who no longer wish to partake in vanning holidays with Mum and Dad, part and parcel of life so to speak. Now just because we might want to go to an adult only site, does that mean we suddenly dont fit the criteria to call ourselves normal caravanners, I DONT think so.Theres enough problems in this country on a daily basis without having dictatorial nutters ruining our pastime also. Adult sites, Family sites, Building sites, what the hell does it matter, live and let live.

 

[Val & Frank]

Jim F Wrote

"We as recently retired pensioners are very much in favour of adult only sites!. We have never used one and dont intend to!, but they perform a valuable service in keeping all the sour old gits off the normal family sites"!.

You sad old man/woman that can't see that other people DON'T WANT what you WANT. They may love kids,but don't want them on holiday with them, that is all that has been said on this thread !! So why go into a rant ??

Val & Frank

 

[Val & Frank]

Chrissie wrote

"Exactly, Jim! We are in much the same position. We find sites without kids lifeless and dull. But if those who can only see the negative side of children volunteer to take themselves elsewhere, our enjoyment will be that much greater!

Well Chrissie you can go to the same site as Jim F and I hope you enjoy yourselves. Seriously you are welcome to each other because you have made it clear you don't want to use Adult Only Sites. I respect your choice,and all I ask is that YOU respect mine and others.

Val & Frank

 

[Guest]

Well part of my point is that there is a nice site that we can't use any more because it's now Adult only !

We've found other sites that we think fine for us then we've noticed "Adult Only" so bangs goes that one.

Some sites have seperate fields for tents and another for motor homes so why not leave a few spots for families.

Adult sites are few and far between in Europe in my experience, so what makes the sad old Brits so different ;-) or is i just a coincidence that in general continental kids behave better and often continental adults to.

 

[chrissie2]

Chrissie wrote

"Exactly, Jim! We are in much the same position. We find sites without kids lifeless and dull. But if those who can only see the negative side of children volunteer to take themselves elsewhere, our enjoyment will be that much greater!

Well Chrissie you can go to the same site as Jim F and I hope you enjoy yourselves. Seriously you are welcome to each other because you have made it clear you don't want to use Adult Only Sites. I respect your choice,and all I ask is that YOU respect mine and others.

Val & Frank

In what way have I not respected your choice, Frank?

 

[Geordie]

Hi euro, at the end of the day we all have a common interest,namely caravans or camping in general.I dont have a problem with children on sites, but the fact that there is a choice for vanners to opt for adults only if they wish, then that decision should not be questioned. I take your point about seperate area's on some sites, but there will be those out there who wont be happy about that also. If the whingers on here are an example of the vanners with children, then quite frankly I would gladly go adult only period.I dont know how this feud between vanners came about,but it sure is hell is driving a wedge between groups, which within the caravan fraternity should never happen.

 

[Guest]

Skightly different but I have to say we avoid Brits full stop if we can on sites in Europe if we can.

I know of a few sites in France where the British management keep quiet when Brits arrive. I read a review of a site we know well in France, the manager is English and married the French owners daughter. He greets the Brits in French and knowing the site the author of the review must have been a "right one" as the owners have no problem with the English language unless the customers is being unfair.

 

[chrissie2]

If it is whinging to say that I have I wonderful hobby, which I enjoy participating in with people regardless of their age, class, creed or colour, then count me in, I am proud to be a whinger. I don't know quite what the opposite of whinger would be, but if it involves discriminating against a whole section of society simply on the grounds of their age, then it is not territory I wish to explore.

 

[Val & Frank]

It must have passed me by,But when did they shutdown family friendly sites ??because this seems to be the moan on here !!

By the way Euro if you dislike the Brits so much, I suggest you start using a French or Italian Forum. You will then be amongst your friends !!!

Val & Frank

 

[ProfJohnL]

Just to stir it up a bit,

It is now illegal to discriminate on the basis of age, so sites that now only allow adults are discriminating.

Travel organisations that allow children to travel on reduced fares are also discriminating based on age.

Any other glaringly obvious breeches of the new age discrimination act?

 

[Guest]

That's a really friendly attitude Frank! If you are travelling to France or Italy or Spain why would you want to be grouped with your own country men.

We've made friends with Brits on foreign sites but just don't want to camp in a Brit enclave.

We enjoy having whole society around when we are on our own or travelling with family. Sadly to often the noisy yob like faction at camp site bar is British or the loud uncouth comments when there is entertainment also comes from Brits.

We've expereinced great Karaoke evenings spoilt on two sites as most of the Brits had to be drunk to perform, topless on a French Beach is one thing but a middle aged plump slapper in her teenage daughters outfit obliging the Brit drunken calls of "get yer

 

[Val & Frank]

Euro wrote "Sadly to often the noisy yob like faction at camp site bar is British or the loud uncouth comments when there is entertainment also comes from Brits. "

And sadly when they are not in Continental Europe they are in the UK. Hence the reason why people want Adult Only Sites with No Groups of Singles of either sex

Val & Frank

Exhausted now on this topic

 

[Guest]

Lost me again Frank, we had comment here earlier that adult site did not mean middle aged or elderly.

But adult only means you are guarateed good behaviour does it?

The Adult behaviour I mentioned didn't come from youngsters. it was from couples.

I think most sites we've witnessed the bad Brit behaviour at are sites with families with the adults letting loose when the kids are left to their own devices, I can't say I've come across unruly singles groups at them.

 

[GrahamW]

I don't think I have ever read so much unsubstantiated nonsense in my life, where do you guy's go for your holidays, I think you owe it to the rest of us to come clean so we can all avoid these dens of iniquity.

For my part and having toured extensively abroad for the last 30 odd years in:-

France

Germany

Italy

Switzerland

Romania

Poland

Chequeslovakia

Spain

Belgium

Austria

and a few others not once have I experienced the kind of behaviour being related here, guess I am just lucky, either that or Aesop is doing most of the replying here, and I thought he died years ago.

I think its time Mr Mod deleted this thread!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Graham we have experienced the type of behaviour at one well known southern France top Castels site on three mid summer visits, and on the same site an English couple we met who live in Spain were next to young British holiday reps tents and they had to be moved because of their behaviour, language and shall we say "goings on".

Also in Southern Brittany near Carnac the same and near Royan and at sites near Arcachon and Bearitz apart from other incidents at Spanish and other sites.