First service and the dreaded damp

[Sam Vimes]

Yesterday our Elddis Xplore 304 had its first service since we bought it new.

The service appeared to be very thorough and subsequently found damp across the top of the front window and down one side. Also damp at the bottom nearside front although less than the window.

The window problem seems to be to do with the hinge and has also caused some discolouration. The technicians told me this was a common problem with this model - to which I replied " I wish you'd told me that before we'd bought it."

The dealer has registered this problem with Elddis for a warranty claim. We already have a warranty claim in waiting to replace the front window due to contact marks from both panes flexing. The damp issue at the window seems to be related to the hinge along the top edge but I can't help wondering if there isn't a connection between these two different problems.

They couldn't find any reason for the damp along the bottom near side but they'll look further when it goes back for the window repair - which apparently includes some re-spraying of the front.

Not sure when this will happen as they can't get hold of the replacement window. It will be in dry dock for about two weeks.

 

[Raywood]

Eldiss are consistently bottom of the magazines customer surveys and this shows why.

 

[otherclive]

Yesterday our Elddis Xplore 304 had its first service since we bought it new.

The service appeared to be very thorough and subsequently found damp across the top of the front window and down one side. Also damp at the bottom nearside front although less than the window.

The window problem seems to be to do with the hinge and has also caused some discolouration. The technicians told me this was a common problem with this model - to which I replied " I wish you'd told me that before we'd bought it."

The dealer has registered this problem with Elddis for a warranty claim. We already have a warranty claim in waiting to replace the front window due to contact marks from both panes flexing. The damp issue at the window seems to be related to the hinge along the top edge but I can't help wondering if there isn't a connection between these two different problems.

They couldn't find any reason for the damp along the bottom near side but they'll look further when it goes back for the window repair - which apparently includes some re-spraying of the front.

Not sure when this will happen as they can't get hold of the replacement window. It will be in dry dock for about two weeks.

Thats absolutely appalling and must be a disappointment, not withstanding another potential 600 mile round trip. Since SOLID has been in for a few years now it is difficult to understand how that could happen and become a common problem. Thats not the fault of equipment suppliers that is solely down to poor design allied to bad production quality. There can be no excuses in a modern caravan. looks like Hymers input may not be having much effect yet.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Eldiss are consistently bottom of the magazines customer surveys and this shows why.

I don't really put much faith in customer surveys and reviews. In my opinion more people are likely to complain than to praise. If you search the internet you'll find people having problems with all different makes of caravans.

The Caravan and Motorhome Club magazine recently had a review of my caravan and were very positive about it. But then they'd never used it for real over a period if time

 

[Sam Vimes]

Thats absolutely appalling and must be a disappointment, not withstanding another potential 600 mile round trip. Since SOLID has been in for a few years now it is difficult to understand how that could happen and become a common problem. Thats not the fault of equipment suppliers that is solely down to poor design allied to bad production quality. There can be no excuses in a modern caravan. looks like Hymers input may not be having much effect yet.

Yes, somewhat dissapointing but strangely enough we don't feel that irritated by it since we have the warranty cover. Yes another 600 mile round trip will be upcoming but over the last couple of days when it was in with the dealer we found some good places of interest around Fife so we'll make a real trip out of it next time.

Not only has the Solid thing been around for a number of years but so has this caravan. I think you're right and not just about my problem - poor design and poor manufacturing. I'm sure Elddis must have shipped quite a number of this model and if they were all showing the same problems then they'd have probably done something about it as it would affect the 'botton line'. But then creative accounting can make bad things look good.

 

[Dustydog]

Sorry to hear this Sam.
Whether it’s Alu Tec, Solid or Swifts version, the fundamental fact remains if they are not correctly bonded and assembled by the labour force water ingress will arise 😥😥
Hope it gets fixed correctly

 

[ProfJohnL]

Yes, somewhat dissapointing but strangely enough we don't feel that irritated by it since we have the warranty cover. Yes another 600 mile round trip will be upcoming but over the last couple of days when it was in with the dealer we found some good places of interest around Fife so we'll make a real trip out of it next time.

Not only has the Solid thing been around for a number of years but so has this caravan. I think you're right and not just about my problem - poor design and poor manufacturing. I'm sure Elddis must have shipped quite a number of this model and if they were all showing the same problems then they'd have probably done something about it as it would affect the 'botton line'. But then creative accounting can make bad things look good.

Sam I am sorry you have suffered this problem, It is not your fault - its the caravan manufacturers fault - though legally it's the selling dealer who is culpable for selling defective goods under the consumer rights act!

I can only guess how much you paid for your new caravan, and I'm not asking you to disclose it, but I simply cannot understand how caravanners seem so blaisie about faults, which if anything equivalent in any other product it would seen as a much more serious thing.

It simply shows how poor the UK caravan manufacturers have been in the past and it has desensitised consumers into virtually expecting caravans to have faults, or accepting faults as a normal course of life.

The dealer should be very worried that you don't choose to reject the caravan, as they have no defence as they recognise and admit it is a known fault.

The industry (should) know from its history how poorly caravans are designed and constructed. They have had almost a century of experience to understand the problems and do something about them. Caravans should be a mature product by now - and stay dry and to ensure that each and every caravan produced manages it consistently.

You are absolutely right to expect the faults to be put right, but whilst it may not seem as though you are paying for the repair becasue of the manufacturer's warranty, in practice the selling price of every caravan is inflated to cover the costs of claims, and it doesn't cover the inconvenience and the actual cost of returning the caravan for investigations and eventually repairs.

Managing manufacturing faults through the warranty system is not a cost effective solution. studies across many industries have shown that the cost of repairing a manufacturing fault after sale, is at least five times more expensive than ensuring it is manufactured correctly in the first place.

I have experienced a manufacturing recall where a supplier changed 1 component in a subassembly which saved them may be 2p (in todays money) but the cost of recalling and repairing all the 5000 appliances it affected cost on average about £150 per appliance leaving a bill of £750K the supplier had to find.

If the manufacturers were designing and constructing caravans properly, they could reduce the selling cost of caravans by quite a margin, and get better customer satisfaction results.

I hope your caravan repairs are successful and there is no subsequent evidence of teh repair that will devalue your caravan further.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Thanks for your comments, John.

I actually have a low tolerance to defective items or services and while I may have come across as being 'blaise' about the fault getting irate would not have served any purpose at this point as the dealer was doing their best to put a solution in place. In other words its equally about how faults are handled. Had this particular fault resulted into a loss of use of the caravan when I needed it then indeed words would have been had. Consequental losses don't appear in any type of warranty to my knowledge and even hard to put into contracts.

As for rejecting it, this may be within my rights, but where does that leave me. Either with another van of the same type that may have the same or even other faults; or a different make which equally has other faults. Essentially poor quality seems to be endemic in this particular industry.

Of course this is not restricted to the caravan industry. Many industries have seemed to suffer from the same fete that they have stopped being ruled by quality conscience management and our now run by bean counters because of share holders being the prime mover.

As an example, I worked in the Defence and Aerospace industry....hence low tolerance to faults. When we were a private company Quality was king to the extent that our customers no longer performed incoming tests and inspections on our equipment. It was installed directly. Then over the years we went public and got bought and sold by a number of companies with no experience in the D&A industry. Quality Engineering virtually disappeared and the emphasis was on quarterly returns in the form of billings - not profit.

At one point my team was developing an item for the USAF Tornado. Validation and Verification testing is extensive. We released it to manufacturing but just before the first units were to be shipped, one of my engineers suddenly found a problem that meant that in a few cases the unit would not start up. Not safety critical in this case but mission critical.

We issued and ECO and put a hold on manufacturing and shipping until they were rectified. I got over ridden by the bean counters. The reasoning was; they need to be billed this month to keep the numbers up; after we ship and bill them we'll issue a recall since they wont have had time to install them; costs for recall gets handled differently; plus we'll look good in being open about a fault that we have a known fix for.

I don't know how long its going to take before its fixed and even if it will be a permanent fix, which it better be or the Defcon level will start rising.

 

[Buckman]

Sadly the front window issue and damp appears to be a common fault across the whole range of Elddis products. Is this the marks on your front window? They are internal between the two panes.

 

[otherclive]

Sadly the front window issue and damp appears to be a common fault across the whole range of Elddis products. Is this the marks on your front window? They are internal between the two panes. View attachment 2399

Didn’t realise it affected vans with three front windows. That’s not at all good.

 

[Sam Vimes]

Sadly the front window issue and damp appears to be a common fault across the whole range of Elddis products. Is this the marks on your front window? They are internal between the two panes.

Yes, between the two panes. It is a large span and we've often commented that maybe splitting it into 2/3 seperate ones would be better. While its nice to have it open in the better weather, actually opening and closing it is tricky. Pushing it open is not too bad but the only way to close it is to push it open as far as it goes to release the catches then lower it down. You need long arms .

From your picture it appears your marks are at the edge of the window, which is strange because the maximum deflection point would be in the middle.

Have decided a polite FYI letter to Elddis (Erwin Hymer) would be appropriate just to get there comments - if we get any.

Moderator Note: Inappropriate remark removed.

 

[Ern]

I am very sympathetic with Sam Vines having been sold a brand new "cod" 5 years ago. I initially took the caravan back to the dealer and told them I didn't want it, but I was persuaded by the dealership director to give them the chance to sort it out. Regrettably, I did that and the problems have simply continued. What a moment of weakness on my part that was.
I would not under any circumstances buy another new UK caravan. As far as I can see, the cottage industry has had its day.

 

[Buckman]

Yes, between the two panes. It is a large span and we've often commented that maybe splitting it into 2/3 seperate ones would be better. While its nice to have it open in the better weather, actually opening and closing it is tricky. Pushing it open is not too bad but the only way to close it is to push it open as far as it goes to release the catches then lower it down. You need long arms .

From your picture it appears your marks are at the edge of the window, which is strange because the maximum deflection point would be in the middle.

Have decided a polite FYI letter to Elddis (Erwin Hymer) would be appropriate just to get there comments - if we get any.

Moderator Note: Inappropriate remark removed.

The marks are also lower down, but had to take the picture that way due to the way the sunlight was falling on the window.
I was told by the dealer that it as due to using a front towing cover until I pointed out that the towing cover was one recommended by themselves on their website.
Pointless writing to Elddis as standard answer si take it up with your dealer. However in essence it is the manufacturer of the window pane that is at fault as no manufacturer would have picked up the issue even with a thorough PDI.

 

[otherclive]

I am very sympathetic with Sam Vines having been sold a brand new "cod" 5 years ago. I initially took the caravan back to the dealer and told them I didn't want it, but I was persuaded by the dealership director to give them the chance to sort it out. Regrettably, I did that and the problems have simply continued. What a moment of weakness on my part that was.
I would not under any circumstances buy another new UK caravan. As far as I can see, the cottage industry has had its day.

Careful, don’t insult cottage industries many are top notch producers of quality products. 😀

 

[JezzerB]

And there are people out there with issues with European bought vans.

 

[Ern]

Cottage industries are great. Some decent organisations have grown from cottage industries. UK caravan manufacturers haven't.

 

[Buckman]

And there are people out there with issues with European bought vans.

Yep plenty but we don't hear about them as continental caravans are a very small percentage over here. They are also a cottage industry on the continent.

 

[Challenger]

A friend has owned a 2016 Elddis motor home from new. It may be of no comfort for you to learn that there have been damp / leak issues at every service so far !

 

[otherclive]

A friend has owned a 2016 Elddis motor home from new. It may be of no comfort for you to learn that there have been damp / leak issues at every service so far !

So even a more rigid coach built body on a stiffer vehicle chassis gives problems. Better not tell our friends who at the age of 70 entered the outdoor life and bought a 2010 coach built. So far no damp. But several base vehicle issues have arisen as well as some with the internal habitation equipment. This from a well known motorhome dealership.

 

[Raywood]

Possibly the suspension is the problem. Motorhomes are built on commercial chassis and some can be very stiff putting lots of stress on the body.

 

[Challenger]

Possibly the suspension is the problem. Motorhomes are built on commercial chassis and some can be very stiff putting lots of stress on the body.

Surely that would be true for all Motorhomes ?

 

[Raywood]

It would of most coachbuilt models and many d have these problems. They do at least have some damping in the suspension though, which is a bit better than most caravans.