First time touring in France

[JRT]

Maybe, maybe not only I will know.

Lol.

 

[Lutz]

Well I googled it and the only reference I could find was someone with the same user name as you saying the same thing on the caravan club forum in 2016.....

Yes, it was me and it was long ago. It was confirmed by the product engineer responsible for vehicle lighting where I was working before I went into retirement.

 

[otherclive]

Either way it is not a legal requirement to fit them, but same as in the UK it is an offence to dazzle other drivers.

Then a large number of cars with LED headlights must be illegal, self dipping or not.

 

[Buckman]

Then a large number of cars with LED headlights must be illegal, self dipping or not.

No idea. Ask a copper.

 

[Lutz]

Then a large number of cars with LED headlights must be illegal, self dipping or not.

Can you explain why?

 

[RogerL]

Then a large number of cars with LED headlights must be illegal, self dipping or not.

But no doubt almost all of them will pass the static test at MoT time.

I think the issue with modern LED headlights, and HID/Xenon to a lesser extent, is the sheer brightness of the dip beam when inevitable movement of the car moves the cut-off above one's eyeline

 

[otherclive]

But no doubt almost all of them will pass the static test at MoT time.

I think the issue with modern LED headlights, and HID/Xenon to a lesser extent, is the sheer brightness of the dip beam when inevitable movement of the car moves the cut-off above one's eyeline

I read that the EU are looking at the issue of dazzle from LED headlights as it’s now being recognised as a problem area.

 

[Buckman]

I read that the EU are looking at the issue of dazzle from LED headlights as it’s now being recognised as a problem area.

The big issue is when the approaching car with the LED or HID lights bounces on the roadway ever so slightly, it can be enough to dazzle you when a normal beam will be acceptable.

 

[otherclive]

The big issue is when the approaching car with the LED or HID lights bounces on the roadway ever so slightly, it can be enough to dazzle you when a normal beam will be acceptable.

Yes, also cars coming towards you and driving up a slope or over bridge can be a problem. Even if dipped by driver or auto dip as their front comes down the light beams cross your line of sight unless compensate by looking left.

 

[Lutz]

There are quite clear legal limits for the intensity of headlamps. It is not up to the subjective assessment of a police officer or other road users to determine dazzle or not. If the existing limits constitute a problem, then it would require amendments to respective legislation.

 

[JRT]

Yes, it was me and it was long ago. It was confirmed by the product engineer responsible for vehicle lighting where I was working before I went into retirement.

I wonder why it isn't universally known rather than being one person's opinion?

Because if it was surely they would be withdrawn as being dangerous and potentially illegal. As it is illegal to cause dazzle.

Perhaps they have altered the design since nine years ago?

 

[Lutz]

I wonder why it isn't universally known rather than being one person's opinion?

Because if it was surely they would be withdrawn as being dangerous and potentially illegal. As it is illegal to cause dazzle.

Perhaps they have altered the design since nine years ago?

I doubt whether there is much data as the use of headlamp deflectors is very isolated. Consequently nobody has put much effort in a detailed investigation into the issue. The degree of dazzle that they may cause may also be very different on an individual case-by-case basis depending on the design of the headlamps. However, it is pretty clear that maximum dipping of the headlamp won’t cause dazzle whereas headlamp deflectors may do so, especially in the case of high energy discharge lamps. They could result in potential heat dissipation problems if they reflect heat as well as light into the headlamp unit, but that is only a supposition. No investigative work has been done to confirm as evidence.

 

[JRT]

I doubt whether there is much data as the use of headlamp deflectors is very isolated. Consequently nobody has put much effort in a detailed investigation into the issue. The degree of dazzle that they may cause may also be very different on an individual case-by-case basis depending on the design of the headlamps. However, it is pretty clear that maximum dipping of the headlamp won’t cause dazzle whereas headlamp deflectors may do so, especially in the case of high energy discharge lamps. They could result in potential heat dissipation problems if they reflect heat as well as light into the headlamp unit, but that is only a supposition. No investigative work has been done to confirm as evidence.

Supposition being the operative word.

Equally though there does not seem to be suggestions from any other sources that the deflectors (I use that word even though they don't actually deflect anything) cause dazzle. All that Google seems to bring up is loads of posts in forums asking 'do I really need them', notably caravan forums. It's as if they cost a hundred quid.

The silliest reason I've seen for people justifying not getting them is 'well the French don't, so why should we?'.

 

[RogerL]

Back in the day when my car headlights had a 30 degree (ish) kick-up to the nearside I used to blank the kick-up on the offside lamp so that only the nearside lamp's kick-up was visible - but that was in the days of glass lenses rather than plastic - I wouldn't do it on modern plastic clear lenses but then my recent cars have had the Z-beam anyway.

 

[JRT]

First time I went to France I even painted my headlights yellow with the stuff you could get from Halfords.

Made the lights match the French vehicles at the time but it caned the light output from headlights...

 

[JRT]

This discussion always reminds me of a Mini I had back in 1980.

Even back then it had a lever on the back of the bowl that you could flip to switch for continental driving. It turned out it was built in Belgium of all places and all of them built there rather than the UK had this feature.

 

[otherclive]

Back in the day when my car headlights had a 30 degree (ish) kick-up to the nearside I used to blank the kick-up on the offside lamp so that only the nearside lamp's kick-up was visible - but that was in the days of glass lenses rather than plastic - I wouldn't do it on modern plastic clear lenses but then my recent cars have had the Z-beam anyway.

Another use for duct tape if the lenses are glass.

 

[Lutz]

Supposition being the operative word.

Equally though there does not seem to be suggestions from any other sources that the deflectors (I use that word even though they don't actually deflect anything) cause dazzle. All that Google seems to bring up is loads of posts in forums asking 'do I really need them', notably caravan forums. It's as if they cost a hundred quid.

The silliest reason I've seen for people justifying not getting them is 'well the French don't, so why should we?'.

The French don’t need them anyway because their dipped beam drops down vertically and not to their nearside.
Regardless of whether they actually cause dazzle or not there’s no evidence that they reduce the risk either. It’s more a case of showing that one has done something whether it works or not. Modern headlamps don’t have any markings in the lenses where dipped beam is deflected to the nearside, so no-one would have any indication where beam deflectors should be applied anyway.

 

[Lutz]

Another use for duct tape if the lenses are glass.

And who‘s to know the size, shape and location? It’s specific for every headlamp.

 

[otherclive]

And who‘s to know the size, shape and location? It’s specific for every headlamp.

I was commenting on Roger’s L wrt what used to be done. I know modern car headlamp lenses are different both in materials and moulded in configurations. Hence the inclusive post from RL.

 

[woodsieboy]

Back to the OP original enquries, we stayed in Baden last year on the Yelloh site and drove down from StMalo. didn't use toll roads and it is dual carriaageway most of the way,Most shops still close or open limted hours on Sundays,and most towns offer free or minimal charge parking, we have been stopped on way out and way back just seems luck of the draw, usually involves opening caravan door letting the officer in the van to check and then you are free to go. Never been checked for foodstuffs, not saying we took bacon and sausages,but we managed a full English a couple of times, French sites seem very relaxed about groundsheets and arrival times ,we are just back and on arrival our pitch was free so we were allowed onto it.In August we have found the sites can be very busy, it is the most popular holiday month in France so you may find your site busy, and plenty of children wandering around. Make sure you get your passports stamped on arrival in France if for any reason they are not stamped it can cause problems with the Customs officers at the port when you are returning, as in 1.5 hours stuck in the holding area while they investigate why you didn't point out to the officer on arrival that he should have stamped your passport! We find English is commonly spoken and the younger French seem to be happy to practice their language skills, still seems polite to attempt French in first instance though. Cash seem sto be acceptd in most places , the only time we saw card only was using filling station at the supermarket, arrived back today after 16 nights and did see more roadworks this time than in all our previous trips put together, although most of the resurfacing was taking place at night, and didn't encounter a single pothole, Hope you enjoy your trip, let us know how you get on.

 

[JRT]

The French don’t need them anyway because their dipped beam drops down vertically and not to their nearside.
Regardless of whether they actually cause dazzle or not there’s no evidence that they reduce the risk either. It’s more a case of showing that one has done something whether it works or not. Modern headlamps don’t have any markings in the lenses where dipped beam is deflected to the nearside, so no-one would have any indication where beam deflectors should be applied anyway.

Well, given they are widely recommended by various motoring, foreign travel, and motorhome and caravanning organisations I would say on balance it's safer to use them if you cannot 100% say your vehicle doesn't need them.

So far we only have 'some bloke on the internet' suggesting they are not really needed. (A bit like 'a bloke down the pub said so')

As for fitting them to modern lights, they come with fitting instructions to cover many many vehicles. There is no need to use any markings on the lights present or not.

Pure logic says that avoiding dazzling other drivers reduces the risk of accidents. I have definitely been dazzled by idiot UK motorists who haven't fitted them. Even a brief loss of vision caused thus is dangerous.

 

[Buckman]

Another use for duct tape if the lenses are glass.

Aren't most lenses now plastic?

 

[Lutz]

I see that you tow with a Ford Kuga. If it's one with adaptive LED headlamps it must not be fitted with beam deflectors. That would be absolutely contra productive. I don't know about Ford, but some manufacturers have systems that identify if the vehicle is being driven on the right or on the left hand side of the road and switch over automatically. It would therefore be wise to always ask the manufacturer if or what has to be done to prevent dazzle when driving on the other side.

 

[otherclive]

Aren't most lenses now plastic?

As I said in my reply to Lutz my comments related to Roger Ls post which mentions what used to be done to glass lenses. Post #39 refers.