Forum rule reminder

[Parksy]

There have been quite a few recent instances where fellow moderator Sam and myself have edited forum posts.
The reason for these comments being edited is because they are in breach of an important forum rule which is:

'Don’t derail any forum discussions using vulgarity, spamming, bumping your own posts, going off topic, or using other means'

For some reason, some forum members, who will remain nameless, have decided that it's OK to include swear words or vulgar phrases when they add a forum post to the message boards.
The inappropriate words or phrases are usually very mild, but nevertheless such words or phrases, even when 'disguised' by stars or asterisks and however mild they seem, have no place on these message boards.
This caravan forum is for the enjoyment of all, it's not an industrial workplace or a bar room, and if we allow mild examples of inappropriate language to remain, it's a slippery downhill slope to the point where stronger terms are used.
So far, we've edited inappropriate words etc, but forum rules are currently being revised and posts which we've edited up to now will be deleted without further reference.

Please don't waste your time by including these inappropriate words or phrases, only for an otherwise valid comment to be removed.

 

[Sam Vimes]

I totally agree with Parksy. If we fail to moderate the issues he describes we run the risk of degrading this great forum to be no different from certain Social Media platforms.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I appreciate that swearing is not allowed but I really think it is a waste of your time to be moderating such mild words. I realise that you want to keep up standards but the level of censorship on this site is becoming puritanical. There are plenty of perfectly civilised forums I use for CB radio chat which don't fret over very trivial words, such as a word which describes something being covered in blood, or certain humerous day to day words people use to describe bodily functions. I'd say the majority of caravanners I've met and spoke to are country people, seen the world a bit and aren't going to get upset over extremely trivial words.

I appreciate all the work you all do to keep this forum running, but if you get too religious over enforcement of language, you are going to create yourself unnecessary work and drive people away.

 

[Parksy]

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. I appreciate that swearing is not allowed but I really think it is a waste of your time to be moderating such mild words. I realise that you want to keep up standards but the level of censorship on this site is becoming puritanical. There are plenty of perfectly civilised forums I use for CB radio chat which don't fret over very trivial words, such as a word which describes something being covered in blood, or certain humerous day to day words people use to describe bodily functions. I'd say the majority of caravanners I've met and spoke to are country people, seen the world a bit and aren't going to get upset over extremely trivial words.

I appreciate all the work you all do to keep this forum running, but if you get too religious over enforcement of language, you are going to create yourself unnecessary work and drive people away.

You have the right to disagree with me, but when you joined this forum you agreed to abide by the rules, as a condition of being accepted as a forum member.
I agree that having to moderate these seemingly mild words can be time consuming, but the words shouldn't appear in the first place.
Is Practical Caravan magazine peppered with swear words?
If editorial staff don't publish these words in the magazine, they won't appear here.
This is an open public forum, not necessarily restricted only to these caravanners who may or may not be upset over words that may be regarded as 'extremely trivial'.
Thin end of the wedge Chris, these words or phrases, as I explained earlier, never have and never will be allowed onto the message boards because the standard that is set will be maintained.
If our 'puritanical' approach drives away people who want to degrade and devalue this forum, so be it.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Comparing a forum where people casually chat with a printed and paid for publication is a false equivilence.

Sorry Parksy but your "thin end of the wedge" argument just doesn't wash with me. I use other forums which tolerate certain mild words, they have existed for decades and certainly have not decended into effing and jeffing.

It is fairly obvious that your initial "reminder" is aimed at me and I am very sorry you think I am here to "degrade and devalue" this forum when I have expressed nothing but friendship, gratitude, courtesy and kindness towards fellow members over the year or so that I have been on here.

 

[Parksy]

For your information, my initial reminder came about as a result of recent off forum conversations between moderators and forum admin which involve a revision of forum rules Chris.
The reminder isn't aimed at any individual forum member, and if I'd have wanted to take issue with you personally about forum behaviour, I would have contacted you directly via personal message.
I don't do hints at individuals.
If other forums that you use tolerate certain mild words, that's up to them.
We don't, and won't.
On a personal note, it's sad that you seem to think that I hold such a low opinion of you Chris, as it happens I quite enjoy reading some of your humorous forum contributions and haven't to my knowledge shown the opposite to be the case.
My reminder is just that, the forum rules are being revised soon, and forum members should bear this in mind.

 

[ProfJohnL]

What might be intended as humorous banter often relies on certain shared experiences to carry the intention across, As readers we don't always have those experiences, nor can we see the rye smile a writer has when they make a humorous posting, so we have no reference, and thus can't decode it, and in some cases it comes across as offensive, and unnecessary.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

What might be intended as humorous banter often relies on certain shared experiences to carry the intention across, As readers we don't always have those experiences, nor can we see the rye smile a writer has when they make a humorous posting, so we have no reference, and thus can't decode it, and in some cases it comes across as offensive, and unnecessary.

My point has nothing to do with “banter”. It’s to do with the in my opinion over zealous policing of words which most normal people who don’t live in Enid Blyton land use in their day to day lives.

 

[GaryB]

The thing is, this forum is an extension of a printed magazine and hence follows the same standards and guidelines. I have belonged to a few caravan forums which were populated with some rather nasty individuals which this place doesn’t seem to have, hence, for me, it’s moderation works well.

 

[Parksy]

My point has nothing to do with “banter”. It’s to do with the in my opinion over zealous policing of words which most normal people who don’t live in Enid Blyton land use in their day to day lives.

My reminder regarding forum rules was posted because of an increasing tendency across the forum membership spectrum to casually add inappropriate words or phrases to their forum comments.
Most of these rule breaches won't have been noticed, because we have quietly dealt with them without fuss or fanfare.
It's become obvious Chris the Caravanner that you feel quite strongly about this issue.
Perhaps moderators should create an exception for you, so that you can ignore a forum rule that you agreed to abide by when you joined because you apparently swear at people in your day to day life?
Alternatively we could ask admin to supply us with a 'Swear Ometer' so that we can adjudicate whether or not a word or phrase can be allowed to stand on the message boards if it passes or fails your Enid Blyton test.
Adherence to forum rules isn't difficult.

If any forum member feels that its impossible for them to read, understand and stick to the few simple rules that are in place, this forum might not be for them.

 

[Mel]

Have to say that I don’t like how the new forum format drags up ancient threads, many from a pre Parksy and Damien era when racism and misogyny were rife. I remember that time well. The forum was dominated by a particular clique who could say largely what they liked including disguised swearing. Just scanned through one now. Our mods worked their socks off to change things. I agree can’t have the thin end of any wedge and if those ancient threads can be stopped from appearing it would help.
mel

 

[Sam Vimes]

Parksy made the point about the use of inappropriate language well in the first post.

We as moderators do not make the guidelines but we try our best to ensure members posts abide by them. The guidelines are not always clear cut and we make the best judgement call we can.

In the case of inappropriate language, and to my knowledge, no one has complained about a post not including this. We have, however, received reports about posts in which the language used is thought not to be within the guidelines.

If you disagree with a moderators decision you're free to contact the forum administrators the details of which are given at the bottom of the Community Rules.

If this thread continues to discuss what is or isn't acceptable language we may decide to lock it.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

If this thread continues to discuss what is or isn't acceptable language we may decide to lock it.

"If people continue to disagree with me, I'm going to take my toys away".

Pathetic.

No need to worry about "inappropriate posts" from me. I'll go elsewhere where the mods live in the real world and and don't kow tow to a few snowflakes.

 

[Dustydog]

Mel’s comments on racism and mysogyny concerned me. I looked at the first few pages of Woosie Club and found nothing except a lot of crosses on some of my Mel’s and others posts.
Is there a historic retrospective purge under way? If there is I’d hate to be the person doing the editing. A job for life😜
As a long time member I’d say all our Mods have taken a reasonable approach. One did have a zap pen which took no prisoners.
Being a Mod is a voluntary job . We should remember that and not make Parksy and Sam’s lives difficult. They should be caravanning not editing erroneous posts

 

[otherclive]

I use this Forum as well as other non caravan ones. The difference between this and the others is that it is an extension of a widely distributed publication. As such it has rules which new members agree to abide by. I have no problem with those rules, but don’t consider myself a “snowflake” whatever that means. If anyone is unable to write a post without using offensive terms, misogynistic term, racist terms etc then it reflects more on them than it does the Forum Mods, or PCv, and I shed no tears at their moving on.

 

[Parksy]

"If people continue to disagree with me, I'm going to take my toys away".

Pathetic.

No need to worry about "inappropriate posts" from me. I'll go elsewhere where the mods live in the real world and and don't kow tow to a few snowflakes.

Chris, you're painting yourself into a corner here pal.
I have no problem whatsoever with discussing this or any other issue, with you or with any forum member.
Practical Caravan forum is regarded as the online voice of Practical Caravan magazine.
The clue is in the name, this forum is owned and administered by the proprietors of Practical Caravan magazine, and as such we have to abide by certain guidelines that govern and protect the commercial interests of the international publishing company (Future plc)
that own this internet forum and website.
We're not kow towing to 'snowflakes' and moderators are not particularly worried about what content you add to this forum, provided that you do your best to stay within the few simple rules that have been set by the owners of this website.
As moderators, as far as this forum is concerned we have to live in a somewhat politically correct world, for the reasons that I've already stated.
If you decide to go 'elsewhere' to a place where the 'mods live in the real world', that's your decision if you're unable to abide by the rules that you presumably read and agreed to when you joined this forum.
We're not going to allow you to damage the hard won reputation of this forum / website however much you denigrate our efforts and challenge our stance as forum moderators.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

Whatever,

If anyone is unable to write a post without using offensive terms, misogynistic term, racist terms etc then it reflects more on them than it does the Forum Mods, or PCv, and I shed no tears at their moving on

Clive if you are offended by words such as that describing covered in blood then I wonder how you cope in the real world.

My complaint is was never about the T&C of the site, but about totalitarian enforcement when a reasonable approach would be to let small things go as do most online forums.

By all means carry on sucking up to the mods, I don't care.

 

[Christhecaravanner84]

We're not going to allow you to damage the hard won reputation of this forum / website however much you denigrate our efforts and challenge our stance as forum moderators.

If you didn't want any one to challenge what you posted, why didn't you lock the thread in the first place? How you interpret and enforce the rules is up to you but it's my right as a human being to disagree with and challenge it. I really don't care any more. As I said, I'll go elsewhere in future.

 

[Beehpee]

I personally always ensure I don’t use offensive language but very light mistakes by some people on here are easy to remove but, on the whole there seems very little bad language, but I agree the level of language is entirely down to moderators, I personally find the none stop use of posts that include glorying the mention of alcohol, certain people who post on here advocating alcohol in just about every posts they put on here, I read these and if this individual drinks to the levels he brags about then the soon he gets pulled by the police and removes his licence, there are definitely certain people on here who are part of a clique who post daily, the bragging regarding alcohol is unbelievable, nothing gets moaned at about the encouragement of alcohol is to my knowledge never taken off. Is it that any topic regardless of subject is perfectly ok as long as swear words are not used, surely the topic as well as the use of swearing is important or are certain people above the mods.

BP

 

[Parksy]

Have to say that I don’t like how the new forum format drags up ancient threads, many from a pre Parksy and Damien era when racism and misogyny were rife. I remember that time well. The forum was dominated by a particular clique who could say largely what they liked including disguised swearing. Just scanned through one now. Our mods worked their socks off to change things. I agree can’t have the thin end of any wedge and if those ancient threads can be stopped from appearing it would help.
mel

Hi Mel
I remember those bad old days well!
We had no moderator tools with which to edit or delete unsuitable content, all we had back then were threats and persuasion. 🙂
I don't get to see these ancient posts.
I use my phone for 99.9% of the time, so to keep track of forum happenings I click on 'New Posts' followed by 'Latest Activity' and I can scroll through the recently added forum posts.
Where are these old forum posts appearing from?
I'll contact Steven Haines to see if he can filter this old stuff out in some way.

Mel’s comments on racism and mysogyny concerned me. I looked at the first few pages of Woosie Club and found nothing except a lot of crosses on some of my Mel’s and others posts.
Is there a historic retrospective purge under way? If there is I’d hate to be the person doing the editing. A job for life😜
As a long time member I’d say all our Mods have taken a reasonable approach. One did have a zap pen which took no prisoners.
Being a Mod is a voluntary job . We should remember that and not make Parksy and Sam’s lives difficult. They should be caravanning not editing erroneous posts

Hi Dusty
By the time that the Woosie Club was started by dear old Graham, Damian and myself had been given the tools and permissions to effectively moderate the forum after Nigel Donnelly became magazine editor.
He helped us tremendously.
A historic retrospective purge by us would increase the ire of Herself even more than it does already when I'm posting on the forum when she's waiting to go shopping.

Thanks to all who have given us a vote of confidence.

 

[PTA]

The thing is, this forum is an extension of a printed magazine and hence follows the same standards and guidelines. I have belonged to a few caravan forums which were populated with some rather nasty individuals which this place doesn’t seem to have, hence, for me, it’s moderation works well.

The Swift forum was withdrawn for exactly that reason. It was tragic ,as many posters who were not part of a certain clique became subject to insults and ridicule.

 

[Dustydog]

The Swift forum was withdrawn for exactly that reason. It was tragic ,as many posters who were not part of a certain clique became subject to insults and ridicule.

I was on the Swift Forum. I remember one chap who had written the answer before the question had been asked!His name was akin to an old fictional aviation pilot. Swifts real problem was the Forum became a place where the dirty washing was hung out . Too many staff were dealing with the Forum rather than their day job. A great shame because Swift did make the effort to resolve customer queries in a professional manner. The world was watching and yes it worked .Such a shame the current manufacturers don’t all start a customer forum😉

 

[Buckman]

I was on the Swift Forum. I remember one chap who had written the answer before the question had been asked!His name was akin to an old fictional aviation pilot. Swifts real problem was the Forum became a place where the dirty washing was hung out . Too many staff were dealing with the Forum rather than their day job. A great shame because Swift did make the effort to resolve customer queries in a professional manner. The world was watching and yes it worked .Such a shame the current manufacturers don’t all start a customer forum😉

We were about to buy a Swift caravan and joined the forum. There seemed to a be a clique of a few and if anything was said about a Swift caravan having issues, one poster would defend the indefensible no matter what.

I stopped posting because some posters were really aggressive posters looking for a fight plus we lost interest in purchasing a Swift caravan.

I know that sometimes I over step the boundaries on this forum, but the one time I was suspended when there was no malice by me. I thought that was a bit overboard, but have been a bit more careful since then by not naming countries or nationalities.

 

[GaryB]

We were about to buy a Swift caravan and joined the forum. There seemed to a be a clique of a few and if anything was said about a Swift caravan having issues, one poster would defend the indefensible no matter what.

I stopped posting because some posters were really aggressive posters looking for a fight plus we lost interest in purchasing a Swift caravan.

I belonged to the Swift forum from 2010 and had some great support from both contributors and Swift themselves when I had problems with a new 2014 Swift and the dealer was less than useful. It was a shame but shows how a forum can run away if the pre-set boundaries aren't enforced. The last few months of Swift-Talk were almost comical.

It's quite ironic that the first caravan forum I joined was this one way back when it first started and it wasn't "live". It took several hours for your post to appear.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I would just like to point out that my 6 year old grandsons comic makes frequent use of all sorts of non letter characters in speech bubbles when the cartoon character hits his thumb with a hammer etc. Tom and Jerry do it in their cartoons as well. Are they disguised swear words???
No one complains about them do they?
Come on moderators, you need to inject a bit of "moderation" into what you do. Go and stand outside a primary school gate sometime and just listen, it's certainly an education and vastly worse than amything ever posted on here.
For the avoidance of doubt I do NOT condone offensive, profane, or insulting language, on this (or any other) forum but of course where is the line between "jokey" and offensive etc? I certainly don't envy the moderators their job, but do feel, at times, they are a bit nanyish.