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Freedom - anyone else own one?

L

Liz_374359797

We love our Polish plastic van. Has anyone else got one, 'cos it would be good to exchange ideas about the things that go wrong (not much so far) and how to fix them. For a start, has anyone tried different sorts of insulation than the nasty beige foam stuff? If so, did it work?
 
Direct answer? - no, haven't got one, never had one.

I know what they are though - and I know that many caravanners have a quiet sneer when they see them, which is ironic, since the Freedom;s (unlike the
 
It weould seem that the only person sneering on this forum is you Selwyn, Sid or whoever you are this week.

You seem determined to provoke some sort of reaction from owners of caravans other than the ones of which you approve.

Nobody needs your permission to buy whatever caravan that they choose.
 
Hi Parksy - you seem to be a bit confused. Mind you, you're not to blame - it's the multi-faith, multi-ethnic, multi-gender.multi-cultural, multi-choice, multi-personality Britain in which we all live.

It's enough to make anyone's head spin!

And you're quite wrong about my post to Liz. I saw that no-one had bothered to answer her (not even you) and thought I'd weigh in with a couple of positive comments.

It's also quite true - Freedoms don't leak.

Let's all remain chums, eh?
 
Selwyn

You're correct, I am confused.

Liz started a topic to say that she owns a Freedom caravan and wonders if any other forum members have one with a view to exchanging information. Amongst other things you wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------------

'Direct answer? - no, haven't got one, never had one.

I know what they are though - and I know that many caravanners have a quiet sneer when they see them, which is ironic, since the Freedom;s (unlike the
 
That's not bad, Parlsy - for a first novel 😉

I'm a lazy reader, however, and freely admit to having lost the thread of the story about half way through.

There are a couple of points that I managed to rake on board before insomnia overwhelmed me, however, and I address them below.

[1] Caravanning, as you may or may not know, owes far more to style than it does to substance. If that were not the case, no-one would purchase a flimsily made UK caravan that is destined to leak and rot before many months have elapsed.

Yet, amazingly, people *do* continue to buy these caravans, and that begs the question, 'why'

I firmly believe that the purchases are motivated by necessity - the need to shift a leaking part-ex caravan before the damage becomes too apparent, and [ii] vanity - the desire to own the latest gadgets and fads (why else are caravaner's becoming excited about 'black' windows? - falling for yet another lure by the manufacturers to draw the attention of purchasers away from the inferior (and unchanging) build quality of UK caravans.

Please don't try and say that 'status' isn't an important consideration for many caravanner's - because it self-evidently is!

Thus, humble caravans like the Freedom (or Biod) are disdained my many striving to keep up with the caravan Jones's because their virtues are not those of ostentation - but of decent build quality and longevity.

[You seem quick to require documentary proof that UK caravans 'leak and rot'.

That, to me, is rather akin to you demanding proof from me that the sun will set later this evening. I've owned British caravans - I've poked my own fingers through the rotten vinyl covered interior board of vans less than 24 months old - I KNOW what I'm talking about from bitter personal experience.

However, if you require further documentary evidence on the subject - why not try reading the forums you moderate? - it's all there, in harrowing detail from any number of contributors...

As an aside, one has to wonder *why* anyone would attempt to deny the truth of British caravan construction. The only possibility that occurs to me is that there are vested interests who have done very nicely out of selling poorly constructed caravans, and who a very keen not to hear any voices that might alarm future punters.

However, I'm sure you're not like that.

[3] I certainly can't recall 'ordering' people to buy certain makes of caravan, nor of demanding that their purchases be submitted for my approval.

If you, or anyone else here, likes their Brit van - hurrah, and good luck, it's still a relatively free country.

However, at least allow me to observe that if UK purchasers were totally secure in their decision to buy British they wouldn't become so agitated when the merits of German vans are pointed out.

Would they?
 
I can tell that you're a 'lazy reader' Selwyn because had you taken the trouble to read the o.p. you would have noticed that Liz doesn't mention any feeling of inferiority, only you do that.

My earlier reply to you was perhaps overlong because I decided to make the effort to explain to you why I wrote that in my opinion your post was sneering. Clearly a wasted effort.

Your sweeping generalisations about UK caravans amongst other things are all too familiar on this forum and much as I might enjoy the cut and thrust of verbaly fencing with you I have other things to do so I'll let you go to sleep because if you are overwhelmed by insomnia - the inability to sleep - it might do you good.

Should you wish to sing the praises of German caravans and unfavourably compare UK caravans with them be our guest but there is really no need to be so combative about it, show us the proof. You might want to provoke an argument on the forum for whatever reason but my job is to prevent one.

Whenever a forum moderator has occasion to try to restore some balance vis a vis German / UK built caravans and to expose unproven hearsay for what it is posters such as yourself invariably question the integrity of the moderator by hinting darkly at 'vested interests' which really makes me laugh. You forgot to roll out the old chestnut about advertising revenue and how PC magazine lives in fear of manufacturers and are in their pockets.

I'm not aware of anyone on the forum becoming agitated when the 'merits' of German caravans are pointed out and I have no unshakeable preferences either way but if everyone agreed with you there would be no UK built caravans on the roads of Britain.

Would there?
 
My bad! - I meant 'narcolepsy'

See how confused you're making me? 😉

I'm a bit hurt that you should think I want to start an argument for the sheer unbridled joy of it! - I much prefer peaceful chit-chat myself, the sort of gentle banter that is conducted on a summer evening as caravaner's sit outside their awnings in the balmy air of an August night, and friendly discourse rises and dissipates like fragrant pipe smoke into the gently gathering dusk.

I'm right, I know I'm right, and I'm pretty sure that others know that I know that I'm right - but I don't want to arrest droves of misguided UK caravan purchasers and torture them until they admit their error.

However much some of 'em might deserve it......

Now, what happened to the 'Letter to the Editor' post btw?
 
I'm sorry that I'm making you confused Selwyn, the bit about balmy air on August nights gives the show away.

As soon as I read it I thought to myself 'he's drifting now...' although I have to say that your memory is still sharp if you can remember warm summer nights because it just keeps raining here.

As it happened I was out at an appointment with a physioterrorist this morning when your letter to the editor post was deleted because the moderator quite rightly deemed it unsuitable for a family caravan forum. The moderator tried to email an explanation to you but a server error apparently bounced the email back.

I saw the copy and I must admit that it was funny but to echo the email which you obviously havent recieved children could have access to this forum so admin strictly insist that risque posts are verboten on here and we have no choice other than to delete them. Discipline und respect and all that.

To go back to the caravan subject I'm not disputing your viewpoint, I've bought a few lemons myself but you sometimes come across as antagonistic to other caravanners, hence my recent comments.
 
Well, axshully Parksy, it's not intentional.

I do have a profound distrust of the caravan 'trade' I consider most dealers to be little more than thieves who callously sell tat to unsuspecting families, for whom the purchase price represents a significant sum.

I remember, over 20 years ago, talking with the owner of a large dealership in the Midlands (Shakespeare country, but no names)

This was the original founder of the firm - then an elderly man who was semi retired from the business that was being run by his sons.

We had a discussion about UK vans (they also sold Adria) and he freely admitted that (in his own words) "They all leak"

That, presumably, was why every single secondhand van in his display (99% of them UK vans) had their doors wide open. The charitable thing would have been to assume that they were facilitating viewing of the stock - but the musty smells emanating from most of them made one think that the real reason they were open was to try and dissipate the stink of damp 😉

The point is - he knew they were damp, even freely admitting it to me, yet they still happily sold them to young families who could not afford to be saddled with them!

Yet, the image presented by that company was (and, I think, still is) that of an entirely reputable dealership who were extremely anxious to see their customers become friends of the family 😉

Forget all the smarmy courtesy and bogus goodwill - these people are sharks who would rip off your arms and legs to make a sale.

Not that I believe the sellers of German vans are any more ethical - the entire 'industry' is founded on deceit and falsehood - it's just that German vans really *are* less prone to damp, and represent a better bet for families without endless wads of cash to keep throwing at their servile hand-rubbing local dealers.

So, if I seem a trifle irate - it's not aimed at the buyers - but at those who make and sell these cullender's on wheels.
 
Calm down - and thank you both for keeping the thread going. Maybe there is someone else with a Freedom out there who is away at the moment and will see it when they get back thanks to you.

Selwyn makes some interesting points - for instance:

- to my knowledge, no one has sneered at our tiny 'van. But there is always lots of interest, and some people come over and say that they started with a tiny 'van themselves. Such people have often been really helpful sources of information, thanks to years' of experience. Maybe they giggle when they go back to their big 'vans? People (and gear) watching is an essential part of caravanning. We can giggle that it takes us approximately 3 minutes to set up, and others can giggle that the Polish plastic is so unsophisticated. The people who service it think it's wonderful - dead simple and one bloke can move it.

- People have different requirements for layout and space. Because of the way they are built, traditional caravans can't easily be altered - but ours can. The shell and the furniture are not connected, so you can alter a Freedom to suit yourself. We don't need a wardrobe or a bathroom, but we did want another bench seat.

- Because it is old, and we don't have to worry about selling or PX-ing it, we can also change the soft furnishings from the ubiqitous beige. If we could decide how to re-do the lining, we'd do that too.

- As well as fixing the layout, we can mend it ourselves because one of us knows about fibreglass (not me). We haven't got much money and we have heard about the horrors of leaking caravans and the expense of repair. For a long time it put me off altogether, because we couldn't afford to buy new.

- It weighs hardly anything. A beginner (me) can tow it, and pack it, with help from friends and this forum. It does affect petrol consumption, but not much.

- I realise that the DIY approach to caravanning does not support the economy in the way that a new 'van every couple of years does. But this way we can afford to buy a caravan, and still have enough left to take holidays - which also boosts the economy of rural Wales.

Is there room for a couple of aging hippies and a plastic caravan on a site near you?

Liz
 
hi all

ding. ding. end of round four boxing match suspended while I answer the question liz asked: no I have not had a freedom caravan but almost bought one new when we sold our motorhome.

if the dealer had been straight with us we would be the owners of a now 2yo freedom sunseeker, although internals were a little spartan we liked the quirkiness of the set up 2ring burner no carpets or water heater, (to save on weight)it took us back to our ace airstream days of the 1970's but with a mtplm of only 750kg for a almost 4mtr van we were really atracted to it as it could be towed by our beloved rover 214sli

the guy at freedom who I spoke to expected the vans to last 25years and ganranteed "no water leaks" would appear as there were no roof seams and gave us a price of
 
Hi Liz. It is so refreshing to see someone so happy with their "basic" van. I would actually love to see inside a Freedom, I've never had the privilage, and living in rural West Wales, probably unlikely to. I for example, didn't realise you can move the interior about like that. Great idea. Do you find the space restricing? Can you fit an awning?

Selwyn I think has taken this off onto a bit of a tangent really, and made the thread into a wider issue of "Snobbery and attitude". This is a familiar topic on another forum especially in relation to the two main Caravan clubs. The issue of British quality verses Continental quality is again a familiar one with no real proof either way (the biggest hamper being of course the lack of foreign models to compare numbers of faults with). That said, the concept of the fibreglas build method used on a Freedom - very similar to boats - is undoubtably a strong, versatile long lasting method.

I do think however that with the increase in fuel and VED costs, lightweight vans such as the Freedoms, small Sterckmans, Goings etc may well now be given more consideration by buyers and the main British manufactures are going to have to start looking at their own (often well hefty) offerrings in terms of weight.

I hope a fellow Freedom owner soon comes along and joins in this thread for you. I must admit though, it is the lack of a toilet which bothers me about them - just what do you do at 3 am on a wet windy night? Brrrrrr!

woody
 
Don't worry, Selwyn and myself are actually on the same side. I have to give him a prod with my stick now and then to rekindle the light of battle in his eyes and to stir his blood ;0)

He raises some very good valid points regarding caravan dealers and I agree that it's very much a case of buyer beware. This applies even more if considering buying a used caravan privately and for anyone who is thinking about buying from an online auction site they must ask themselves why the caravan is on there in the first place.

To return to the original topic, thanks Liz for giving us an insight into 'back to the roots' caravanning.

I firmly believe that large mass manufacturers of caravans of whatever nationality would do well to have a look at caravans such as the Freedom.

The days of relatively cheap fuel appear to be over and the green lobby whether we like it or not seem to have the ear of all mainstream political parties throughout Europe. Air travel will at some stage be greatly affected which will mean more people will have to reconsider their leisure / holiday options

I've already seen one or two posts on here and on other forums which state that the poster doesn't need a shower cubicle / cooker / fridge and modular construction with a basic caravan shell and a list of options would address this issue.

Coupled with realistic and manageable weight and constructed like the Freedom so that the possibility of leaks is much reduced and there is a recipe for caravanning for the next 100 years.

The only fly in the ointment as far as I can tell is to wonder whether caravan manufacturers would be interested in building a caravan that would last for years. Would they be building themselves out of a job?
 
Parksy said "The only fly in the ointment as far as I can tell is to wonder whether caravan manufacturers would be interested in building a caravan that would last for years. Would they be building themselves out of a job?"

Isn't that the argument Dandy camper lovers use ;-)

woody
 
That argument has certainly been used before, yes.

Baileys have cleverly introduced series numbers to their ranges as a marketing tool e.g. seris 5 series 6 and now series7.

I wonder whether this kind of peer pressure approach, which clearly works on MR and Mrs Bailey owner would work on Mr and Mrs Ageing Hippy as Liz amusingly describes herself.
 
Back to basics caravanning? We haven't got a telly at home! If you compare the Freedom to my last 'mobile home' - a backpacking tent, it is the last word in luxury.

My 5 year-old granddaughter loved it - we divided her space (a bench) from the rest of the caravan with pieces of material and told her it was a 'princess bed'. Personally, I think she has the right attitude. IMO, some of the modern caravans really are just like home - mobile housework. Ours is a wendy house for grown ups. We smile a lot.

We have got an awning - somewhere to sit when the granddaughter was sleeping. We got a motorhome awning, and it isn't great, but we'll try a different arrangement next time. You can buy a custom awning, but it would cost more than our 'van. Otherwise we put a table up neatly outside the back of the van and use that for storage of folding chairs etc. Even with two adults, one child and two dogs, there was enough room - though let's not get carried away, only one person could move round at a time!

But there are normally two adults and two (small) dogs, and whilst it ain't palatial, it is more than adequate. Without the wardrobe and bathroom, it even feels spacious. There aren't zillions of cupboards, but the ones there are are all in the right places, so it feels like there is a lot of storage.

As for the bathroom situation, we have always chosen club sites, so the toilets are pretty good. And someone else cleans them! Seeing folk dealing with cassette toilets - hmm. A high price to pay for not going outside at night? My opinion, and lots of people would disagree.

So far we've taken 6 trips and we don't plan to stop until the cold gets too bad to bear.

Liz
 
Liz, it really is SO refreshing to hear someone so happy with their choice of van and lifestyle. Well done girl!

Selwyn is right (ssshh dont tell him!)there is a lot of snobbery around caravanning circles, I noticed it when we had our old van, and I notice it now when people talk about buying and older van and the responses they get, but at the end of the day they are all still just boxes on wheels sat in a field. I shall be buying an old one in a couple of months. I can no longer afford newer ones. And I'll tell you what, I bet I'm happier in my old van knowing if I spill a drink on the carpet, it'll just mix in with the others rather than panicking about that
 
I am in despair - it seems that the lack of reviews and advertising means that poor old Freedom caravans are definitely a minority interest. They are small, lightweight and don't leak. What's not to like?
 
Don't despair Liz, by posting on this forum and keeping the 'Freedom' flag flying you may have caused someone out there to consider buying one, you never know.

Just continue to contribute from time to time to let us know how your trips with your caravan go.
 
One advantage I recently realised is that with the door on the "wrong" side it assists in your getting to know your neighbours (assuming they have a UK Van)!
 
Hi all i have a freedom .Just to let you know you are not the only one.

At present i have two one being cleaned up ready for use

and the other being made ready for sale.

the only reason that there are not more about is because

of the (in my opinion) poor way they are sold by the dealers.

just sold my 17ft elddis as the freedom we got to try was

that good. no longer need a citroen c5 to tow it.It can be towed easily by our 1.3 diesel meriva. I havent checked the mpg but it should be near the 40 mark.

The one question every body asks is how do you spend a week

or two cramped in a caravan (not just a freedom) well the

truth is we only use it for sleeping in. Its a bed on wheels

what more do most of us need ?

The last one is the twin ,long beds and a toilet compartment.

The toilet is now nearer than it was in the elddis.
 
Being a newbie and reading all this makes me nervous now about buying a new van. I guess I do like the all singing and all dancing caravans with good beds, shower (I know many people dont use them and use the site showers). I have now trawled the net looking at the German 4 berth tourers but they are too heavy for us with the car we have. From what Selwyn is saying am I expecting a new van to leak within a couple of years of buying it? For instance Baileys with the new Series 7 you would think they would learn from the mistakes and make each newer model better and better???? Or would I go for the Lunar which one dealer said they were nick named leaking Lunars??? Someone please put me out of my misery
 
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