FULLY SERVICE WATER CONNECTION, NEW IDEA.

[ALANSHARKY]

As I have now said guys, i purchased a pressure

I'm 68 with a dodgy ticker and enjoy dragging my water container, it's not weight bearing 👍

I was jus quoting otherclive, i dont think its really harmful to drag a water container, actually beneficial, but after setting up my awning and additional annex, and setting up everything else, i then need as less more exercise thanks.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

As mentioned, I now have a water regulator for £15 to attach to the tap, so i set the pressure and it also has the Truma reducer attached to the hose. The regulator also has a filter. I think I've pretty much covered all the bases and I would have to be very very unlucky to experience any issues. The regulator will be set to 1.5 Bar, even though my van can take 2 bar and the reducer is my backup. If the regulator fails it will be fine and I will notice the failure on the clock, so i will change the regulator, if that should ever happen. Also, an annual internal clean of all parts will be part of my winter shut down chores. Happy Camping guys

 

[ALANSHARKY]

Aren't most systems in caravans controlled by a pressure switch? If a pipe comes loose in a caravan then no system will stop the caravan being flooded.

your probably right, but for some reason, most people only ever want to criticise a good idea., please read my last post, i pretty much covered all the bases with a water regulator and a reducer. thank you for being one of the few positives.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

I have the Truma Waterline, provided as standard on Lunar Clubman at the time, with 15m of hose - it is quite cumbersome so the use of flat hose would reduce the stored volume considerably, and save weight too.

you could also fit a £15 water regulator (on Amazon) that will allow you to set the pressure to what is safe 1.5 eg: bar. You just attach the regulator to the tap, attache the hose to that. Then turn know to see pressure rise on dial to what you want. that way if your reducer fails you are safe.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

I like your idea, but I am always wary of a direct hose,even with a reducer in the line.
I had a internal pipe, " break away" from a coupling and flood the caravan, using an Aqua roll, supply, So on FSP I turn off the pump.
I know we can turn off the supply tap when using your kit, when going out, but I would forget.
Thanks for. The info though.

i am sure there are disasters in every day life where ever we look, but the chances of both my safety items (reducer and regulator) failing at the same time would be equivalent to winning the lottery, and if that happened, you could buy a new van 🙂

 

[ALANSHARKY]

That would also happen if they were using the feed from the barrel albeit only 40 ltr unless the barrel was connected to the water mains. Could even happen while sitting in the caravan which is what happened to us. We did not notice for awhile and by that time the caravan floor was soaked. New carpets had to be fitted.

please see my last post regarding the regulator and the reducer, thanks

 

[borderbilly]

Sounds like your complicating a issue that doesn't exist, I'll stick to my dragging 😉

 

[ProfJohnL]

Aren't most systems in caravans controlled by a pressure switch? If a pipe comes loose in a caravan then no system will stop the caravan being flooded.

What you suggest is true, but the scenario you describe is more of a poor assembly process by the caravan manufacturer who has failed to make all the joints correctly, so the system is predisposed to a failure even with the inherent lower pressures developed by submersible pumps.

A correctly assembled caravan water system should be able to withstand a pressure of about 2.5 Bar, so even if a pressure switch failed and a submersible pump was running continually, the system should remain leak free.

There is a greater risk if the water pump is a diaphragm or positive displacement design, where the peak pressures within the pump will be much higher, but the design of the pump is such that the pulses of very high pressure are of short duration and are normally moderated by the volume of the plenums inside the pump and the pump's built in pressure switch, along with the elasticity of the pipework in the caravan. If the pump's pressure switch does fail (and there are known cases where this has occurred) the pressure in the caravan pipe work does increase and the pressure release valves on some appliances are good enough to vent the the excess pressure and prevent system damage.

The most significant dangerous difference between any caravan water pump and a direct supply from mains, is the ability of a mains water supply to consistently exceed the safe working pressure of the caravans water system. This is why direct systems need to have a pressure regulator ( not just a flow restrictor which is a very different device) It is essential the regulator is as reliable as possible, and in general they are statistically very reliable, but there have been failures which have resulted in a combination of excess pressure and flow which has overwhelmed the excess pressure relief valves and allowed the whole system pressure to climb and cause either a product or pipework failure.

As I have stressed in previous threads these failures are rare but the consequences when they do arise are major, which is why I have personally come to the conclusion it is safer to use a water barrel with a float valve along with a submersible pump which cannot exceed a caravans safe working water pressure.

Ultimately it is up to each individually user to decide if the albeit low risk is worth it or to eliminate the risk entirely by using a water barrel and float valve.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

Sounds like your complicating a issue that doesn't exist, I'll stick to my dragging 😉

It is just putting a reducer with two hose clips in a hose in the direction of the arrow (flow), then screwing on a regulator at the tap end, and you never have to do it again, whats complicated? 🙂. Even turning the regulator know to 1.5 bar is only done the once. then when you turn up, you plug one end into van, the other screw to tap, heh presto.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As mentioned, I now have a water regulator for £15 to attach to the tap, so i set the pressure and it also has the Truma reducer attached to the hose. The regulator also has a filter. I think I've pretty much covered all the bases and I would have to be very very unlucky to experience any issues. The regulator will be set to 1.5 Bar, even though my van can take 2 bar and the reducer is my backup. If the regulator fails it will be fine and I will notice the failure on the clock, so i will change the regulator, if that should ever happen. Also, an annual internal clean of all parts will be part of my winter shut down chores. Happy Camping guys

In practice both the "water regulator" you have added and the "Truma reducer" will both be regulators. Each device will add some restriction to the flow of water through the system, and you may well find the maximum flow is down on what you would get from a submersible pump when having a shower. You may be happy with the flow and that's fine, but it might be lower than some people would like.

It shouldn't be necessary to double up on the regulators.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

In practice both the "water regulator" you have added and the "Truma reducer" will both be regulators. Each device will add some restriction to the flow of water through the system, and you may well find the maximum flow is down on what you would get from a submersible pump when having a shower. You may be happy with the flow and that's fine, but it might be lower than some people would like.

It shouldn't be necessary to double up on the regulators.

My reason for buying the other regulator is because it has a dial, so i can set the bar to 1.5 which is below the caravan limit. the other reducer is so if one fails. just out of curiosity, if i fitted a float system to the Aquaroll, does that limit the water pressure, also if the float fails what happens, any ideas ?

 

[Buckman]

What you suggest is true, but the scenario you describe is more of a poor assembly process by the caravan manufacturer who has failed to make all the joints correctly, so the system is predisposed to a failure even with the inherent lower pressures developed by submersible pumps.

A correctly assembled caravan water system should be able to withstand a pressure of about 2.5 Bar, so even if a pressure switch failed and a submersible pump was running continually, the system should remain leak free.

There is a greater risk if the water pump is a diaphragm or positive displacement design, where the peak pressures within the pump will be much higher, but the design of the pump is such that the pulses of very high pressure are of short duration and are normally moderated by the volume of the plenums inside the pump and the pump's built in pressure switch, along with the elasticity of the pipework in the caravan. If the pump's pressure switch does fail (and there are known cases where this has occurred) the pressure in the caravan pipe work does increase and the pressure release valves on some appliances are good enough to vent the the excess pressure and prevent system damage.

The most significant dangerous difference between any caravan water pump and a direct supply from mains, is the ability of a mains water supply to consistently exceed the safe working pressure of the caravans water system. This is why direct systems need to have a pressure regulator ( not just a flow restrictor which is a very different device) It is essential the regulator is as reliable as possible, and in general they are statistically very reliable, but there have been failures which have resulted in a combination of excess pressure and flow which has overwhelmed the excess pressure relief valves and allowed the whole system pressure to climb and cause either a product or pipework failure.

As I have stressed in previous threads these failures are rare but the consequences when they do arise are major, which is why I have personally come to the conclusion it is safer to use a water barrel with a float valve along with a submersible pump which cannot exceed a caravans safe working water pressure.

Ultimately it is up to each individually user to decide if the albeit low risk is worth it or to eliminate the risk entirely by using a water barrel and float valve.

We have been over this scenario so many time son this forum that it is now getting very boring! You have an opinion and I have fact! lets live with that and not bore others. 👍 🤣

Different caravans. In one case it was a poorly connected joint where the filter was fitted. A search on the forum will show pictures. In two other cases it was a pin hole leak on the hot water pipe and both near the boiler. It does not matter whether using a float valve or direct mains, the caravan will still flood.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

OK, With all this talk of failures, no matter how rare, its scared the crap out of me. Having had several issues with my van and now all cured, if I deliver a system that floods my van, my wife will divorce me. So, the safest option appears to be the float. Am I at least correct in saying, no matter what the pressure is, it wont enter the van with a float at that pressure and also, if the float fails, it will just pour out of the top rubber cover of the Aquaroll and not flood the van. Will someone tell me if this is correct please.

 

[Hutch]

My reason for buying the other regulator is because it has a dial, so i can set the bar to 1.5 which is below the caravan limit. the other reducer is so if one fails. just out of curiosity, if i fitted a float system to the Aquaroll, does that limit the water pressure, also if the float fails what happens, any ideas ?

The aqua roll fill to the height of the float, about half way, my submersible pump then runs pumping the water into the normal caravan system.
If the float fails then the aqua roll just overflows,
On my van the pump runs through a pressure drop and NOT micro switched in the taps,,so if a pipe disconnects It will flood the van.

 

[Buckman]

OK, With all this talk of failures, no matter how rare, its scared the crap out of me. Having had several issues with my van and now all cured, if I deliver a system that floods my van, my wife will divorce me. So, the safest option appears to be the float. Am I at least correct in saying, no matter what the pressure is, it wont enter the van with a float at that pressure and also, if the float fails, it will just pour out of the top rubber cover of the Aquaroll and not flood the van. Will someone tell me if this is correct please.

Almost correct, but if a pipe in the caravan leaks for whatever reason, the caravan floods and there is not way getting around that however it is very rare nowadays so I would not worry about it. We used direct mains for several years with no issues.

 

[ProfJohnL]

My reason for buying the other regulator is because it has a dial, so i can set the bar to 1.5 which is below the caravan limit. the other reducer is so if one fails. just out of curiosity, if i fitted a float system to the Aquaroll, does that limit the water pressure, also if the float fails what happens, any ideas ?

OK, With all this talk of failures, no matter how rare, its scared the crap out of me. Having had several issues with my van and now all cured, if I deliver a system that floods my van, my wife will divorce me. So, the safest option appears to be the float. Am I at least correct in saying, no matter what the pressure is, it wont enter the van with a float at that pressure and also, if the float fails, it will just pour out of the top rubber cover of the Aquaroll and not flood the van. Will someone tell me if this is correct please.

You are 100% correct

It removes the risk of excess pressure from the mains water supply reaching the caravan completely. The leak that Buckman continues to discuss is about the caravan manufacturer failing to put your water system inside the caravan together correctly rather than the failure of the water supply regulator device in the direct connection system whether yours or pre assembled off the shelf models.

 

[otherclive]

If you had a Flojet internal pump you would probably hear it kicking in for no reason were an internal pipe to leak. If you have dispensed with the external pump then the direct water feed would be quiet and more difficult to notice. Although at night with tv on it may not be possible to hear an external pump kicking in anyway.

But all told it’s a rare event.

 

[Buckman]

You are 100% correct

It removes the risk of excess pressure from the mains water supply reaching the caravan completely. The leak that Buckman continues to discuss is about the caravan manufacturer failing to put your water system inside the caravan together correctly rather than the failure of the water supply regulator device in the direct connection system whether yours or pre assembled off the shelf models.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned a leak in the internal pipe itself or have you chosen to ignore it leak previous posts? Get your facts correct before posting and having another go at my postings!

 

[Buckman]

You are 100% correct

It removes the risk of excess pressure from the mains water supply reaching the caravan completely. The leak that Buckman continues to discuss is about the caravan manufacturer failing to put your water system inside the caravan together correctly rather than the failure of the water supply regulator device in the direct connection system whether yours or pre assembled off the shelf models.

It is you that continues to cherry pick my posting and make me look as it I do not know what I am talking about when my posts are based on fact and not hearsay!

 

[borderbilly]

I've got a big bag of 🍿 ready, but I think this thread will be locked 🔒

 

[ALANSHARKY]

Almost correct, but if a pipe in the caravan leaks for whatever reason, the caravan floods and there is not way getting around that however it is very rare nowadays so I would not worry about it. We used direct mains for several years with no issues.

I have just a pistol-hose to a filter in the Aquaroll with an internal pump that i switch on. When the water is filled and the float fails, i assume the same will happen for me ? thank you kindly.

 

[otherclive]

I have just a pistol-hose to a filter in the Aquaroll with an internal pump that i switch on. When the water is filled and the float fails, i assume the same will happen for me ? thank you kindly.

Don’t worry so much you have a pretty common set up. Not only did we switch the pump off when out, but when going to bed too. A rapid dry foam soap dispenser allowed for visits to the loo.

To put this saga into perspective over the years I’ve been on the forum I have read very few instances of a caravan flood being caused by its water supply and distribution system; Buckmans being the principal one from a substantial number of threads over the years. Yet I’ve had two underfloor floods at home caused by corrosion of under screed water pipes. A new kitchen was required by one event. Friends have had 6 months in rental when a monsoon shower pump flooded the house caused by a failed downstream joint, another required a complete refit of the lounge and kitchen when a large cold water tank in the loft drained down through a failed fitting and continued as it was float controlled. So in proportion my experience of people having major problems caused by domestic water system events far exceeds my knowledge of caravan system events, and the former are far more traumatic than a caravan system event.

My main concern over any caravan wasn’t an internal flood from its water supply but water from above……. damp.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

Not for anyone in particular, but, I think my thread comes to an end when I choose to end it. If anyone thinks its been exhausted, my suggestion is, go and bother someone else, your input has not contributed at all., thanks. I need to make an informed decision about direct water to my van or float attachment. I think at the end of the day, and based on what people have spoken about, I think that the float in the Aquaroll is probably the safest method, which I have decided to adopt, by ordering one. SO, a big thanks for those that contributed, and did help me make up my mind, and to the others 🙂

 

[otherclive]

Not for anyone in particular, but, I think my thread comes to an end when I choose to end it. If anyone thinks its been exhausted, my suggestion is, go and bother someone else, your input has not contributed at all., thanks. I need to make an informed decision about direct water to my van or float attachment. I think at the end of the day, and based on what people have spoken about, I think that the float in the Aquaroll is probably the safest method, which I have decided to adopt, by ordering one. SO, a big thanks for those that contributed, and did help me make up my mind, and to the others 🙂

I don’t think you have copyright on forum threads and discussions. My last post #47 was intended to be supportive of your decision. Just because you have made your decision, which I agree with, should not be a reason for others to not continue to discuss the pros and cons of various options, if they wish to, and of course you don’t have to participate do you ?

A Forum:

• A place for discussion: The term has expanded to mean any setting, physical or virtual, where a group of people can gather to discuss public matters or topics of shared interest.
• An online platform: An "online forum" is a website where users can post messages and reply to them, creating threads of conversation on various subjects.

 

[ALANSHARKY]

I don’t think you have copyright on forum threads and discussions. My last post #47 was intended to be supportive of your decision. Just because you have made your decision, which I agree with, should not be a reason for others to not continue to discuss the pros and cons of various options, if they wish to, and of course you don’t have to participate do you ?

A Forum:

• A place for discussion: The term has expanded to mean any setting, physical or virtual, where a group of people can gather to discuss public matters or topics of shared interest.
• An online platform: An "online forum" is a website where users can post messages and reply to them, creating threads of conversation on various subjects.

As i said, not for anyone in particular, but if you start a thread, it should closed by the raiser, not someone bored with the responses. tha's my final comment, its never personal unless you make it so. bye