Again discuss " My wife and I decided to have children whilst our parents were still young enough to look after them".
Further discussion
- Thread starter colin(bridgend)
- Start date
That would have been good ;O) My first son was born when I was 40 and the youngest on my 43rd birthday. At the other extreme when I married the first time at the age of 25 I had an 11 year old step son and a 8 year old step daughter. Much prefer the current arrangement ;O)
Sadly my father has Parkinsons and my mother (both in their 80's)is his full time carer so looking after the kids isn't really an option.
Brian (",)
Sadly my father has Parkinsons and my mother (both in their 80's)is his full time carer so looking after the kids isn't really an option.
Brian (",)
Sorry to hear of your parents ill health Brian - unfortunately old age will catch up with most of us. I am trying to put it off for as long as possible. Thank God we do not know what is in front of us. The quote I have made is from today's Daily Mail and in my wife and self's case it is very appropriate. Likewise yesterday's topic for discussion was also from the paper.
Meant to say we are looking after the grandchildren - my wife was at home for our children when they were young.
This is one of my favourite topics - I can get really wound up about it.
We didn't have children to let our parents look after them. We married at 24 and 21, had Kieron a year later and Kristian 2 years after that, so our parents were around 50, 1 set retired and 1 set still working. Everything we've done for our children, we've done by ourselves. We have never had any time on our own, except for when we 'pay' for a babysitter for a night out. Our children's grandparents have never even offered to have their grandchildren, take them to the cinema, panto, out for the day, or even babysit. Everything we do - we do as a family more or less.
When the Kieron was born, I suffered from post-natal depression, and I was advised to return to work as part of the healing process, so I did, working 2 days per week, and Kieron went to a nursery,
We didn't have children to let our parents look after them. We married at 24 and 21, had Kieron a year later and Kristian 2 years after that, so our parents were around 50, 1 set retired and 1 set still working. Everything we've done for our children, we've done by ourselves. We have never had any time on our own, except for when we 'pay' for a babysitter for a night out. Our children's grandparents have never even offered to have their grandchildren, take them to the cinema, panto, out for the day, or even babysit. Everything we do - we do as a family more or less.
When the Kieron was born, I suffered from post-natal depression, and I was advised to return to work as part of the healing process, so I did, working 2 days per week, and Kieron went to a nursery,
Janet - although we are old enough to be your parents, it is how my wife and I raised our two children. We had the same approach as you in so far as the grandparents have raised their family and should therefore now enjoy the freedom. Now only my mother in law is alive, however both sets of grandparents have occasionaly minded our youngest in the past when he was a child, but only in exceptional circumstances. A family is there to enjoy and many of todays young parents are missing out on a hell of a lot not being with and bonding with their children. Good luck to you all as a family and enjoy the family whilst they are young.
Hi Colin, Interesting never really gave that a thought when I had my daughter, only joking, no firstly we lived miles away from both sets of parents, so we managed ok, at least I was their for her first tooth, first steps etc.etc. Wouldn't have missed that for the world. I did go out to work either took daughter with me (which I was lucky enough to do) not with the M & B
Different job or hubby looked after her, if my parents had lived nearer, if I had asked they would have said "not so likely, you had her, you look after her'. Regards Liz
Different job or hubby looked after her, if my parents had lived nearer, if I had asked they would have said "not so likely, you had her, you look after her'. Regards Liz
No you wouldn't, Lisa!
I am sure she is a delight to you both and will be even better when she gets past the teenage years. Stick in their girl, remeber how difficult you were for your parents.
Mind you, I think (after having brought up twin daughters and a son) I would rather bring up a puppy!!! Much easier.
Ann
I am sure she is a delight to you both and will be even better when she gets past the teenage years. Stick in their girl, remeber how difficult you were for your parents.
Mind you, I think (after having brought up twin daughters and a son) I would rather bring up a puppy!!! Much easier.
Ann
Young girls enter a strange and bizarre world once they pass the age of 11. The days of ponies, and other girlish things are swopped for make up and Greenpeace. Usually a stage of being a vegitarian can often be encountered. Parents of course become aliens and are only there to be shouted at 'you don't understand' being common. Groups become the norm, and discussions of how each others parents are the worst, and how can 'they' be persuaded to allow 13 year olds to go to discos occupies much attention.
The only good thing is that they usually leave this stage at about the age of 19/20 and also have no recollection at all of how awful they actually were. I suppose it is down to the genes, or should that be jeans?
Boys on the other hand pass through teen years usually in a comatose state on the sofa in front of the tv, and only move for meals, which they devour in large quantities. The only exercise they like is going to the football match, or in later stages the pub. Again they can leave this stage at the age of 20, usually if said parents 'throw' them out and they have to fend for themselves. Not having an eternal food cupboard to raid is a shock to their system.
Both sexes funnily enough grow up to be decent people and parents in their own right, just like us. Funny old world ain't it?
The only good thing is that they usually leave this stage at about the age of 19/20 and also have no recollection at all of how awful they actually were. I suppose it is down to the genes, or should that be jeans?
Boys on the other hand pass through teen years usually in a comatose state on the sofa in front of the tv, and only move for meals, which they devour in large quantities. The only exercise they like is going to the football match, or in later stages the pub. Again they can leave this stage at the age of 20, usually if said parents 'throw' them out and they have to fend for themselves. Not having an eternal food cupboard to raid is a shock to their system.
Both sexes funnily enough grow up to be decent people and parents in their own right, just like us. Funny old world ain't it?
We must have gone wrong Scotchlad. One daughter thought she was an adult by the time she was 6 and wound up teachers but could always come top of the class so it was hard for them to chastise her the other one just wanted her menagerie and kept an army of animals. At one point she had over 50 Guinea pigs apart from all her other animals and birds.
Our son never slumped on a sofa, and nor could we. He had football and rugby training and the games then there was street hockey, basketball, roller blading, and mountain biking and wind surfing odd spare weekends and on holiday. At 15 he had also taken to running and the gym and weight training, his idea of fun, switching a running machine to full speed and then pounding at top speed for 20 minutes to impress the girls and frighten others!
My wifes parents were to old to look after our kids when they born and mine were both disabled, we had our kids beacuse we love one another and both love kids. We never ever had anyone to look after them, not even a baby sitter for an evening.
Our son never slumped on a sofa, and nor could we. He had football and rugby training and the games then there was street hockey, basketball, roller blading, and mountain biking and wind surfing odd spare weekends and on holiday. At 15 he had also taken to running and the gym and weight training, his idea of fun, switching a running machine to full speed and then pounding at top speed for 20 minutes to impress the girls and frighten others!
My wifes parents were to old to look after our kids when they born and mine were both disabled, we had our kids beacuse we love one another and both love kids. We never ever had anyone to look after them, not even a baby sitter for an evening.
Gosh Scotch Lad that sounds just like my two, who, I have to say, have morphed into really nice people
We had to fend for ourselves from the day the children were born until they moved out. Whenever my wife and I went out together we always had to pay for someone. Fortunately, by taking a few precautions to cover possible emergencies, we were able to leave them on their own for a couple of hours soon after they started school and for the weekend by the time they were about 13 or 14. Never had any trouble with them, thank goodness.
Both sets of grandparents were far too far away to look after our children. Besides, my wife's parents already had enough on their hands and my parents were always rather indifferent to their grandchildren anyway.
Both sets of grandparents were far too far away to look after our children. Besides, my wife's parents already had enough on their hands and my parents were always rather indifferent to their grandchildren anyway.
Every one has different ideas. I never said that I didn't love, and enjoy my kids, but do recognise that there are hormonal changes that occur in teenagehood, that as an adult we have forgotten. There were many times when I, and my wife, could cheerfully have throttled the pair of them, but of course never did. We also enjoyed all holidays together and as has been stated by others, were only able to 'escape' for a evening alone on very few occasions. However, that was something that never really bothered us, we can do that to our heart's content now. Both children, if that is the correct term for 30+ year olds, are now settled in good jobs, have homes and mortgages as do everyone, and have even given us a grandson so who are we to complain? Mind you said grandson is now coming up to 14 years of age and funnily enough, his parents are now questioning his 'approach' to life. The words sofa and computer seem to get mentioned a lot. Conversations with him now tend to begin and end with 'fine' and not a lot else. Deja vu methinks. At least with grandchildren, you can hand them back when you need a rest.
All children are precious and we all tend to put our own on 'pedestals' that is really not necessary. We all wish them to get to the 'top of the tree' but then again those at the top are usually the sort of people you would not wish to admit to being parents of, unless of course you are as bad as they are. A simple telephone call from any of them is worth far more than any luxury gift, and we are fortunate to have many of the former. I tend to get concerned for anyone that seems to feel it is important to tell me how successful their children are. What is more important is how much of a family they still are. Telling me that son/daughter are so busy in thier jobs that they have little time to visit is, in my mind, something rather sad.
Anyway, as one old 'Dad' all I can say is, enjoy them while you can, and don't let them forget thye are important to you.
All children are precious and we all tend to put our own on 'pedestals' that is really not necessary. We all wish them to get to the 'top of the tree' but then again those at the top are usually the sort of people you would not wish to admit to being parents of, unless of course you are as bad as they are. A simple telephone call from any of them is worth far more than any luxury gift, and we are fortunate to have many of the former. I tend to get concerned for anyone that seems to feel it is important to tell me how successful their children are. What is more important is how much of a family they still are. Telling me that son/daughter are so busy in thier jobs that they have little time to visit is, in my mind, something rather sad.
Anyway, as one old 'Dad' all I can say is, enjoy them while you can, and don't let them forget thye are important to you.
Having had a daughter from hellfire island that could hold her own with her teachers or grandparents etc from a young age and walked out of her first college in defiance of a tutor and the principal I'm just bl**** amazed that she's done OK and better than her mum and I.
I guess that what's many of us want, to see our children as happy well adjusted adults but moving a little further ahead tan us.
I guess that what's many of us want, to see our children as happy well adjusted adults but moving a little further ahead tan us.
Funny you say that Daughter from Hell, Well growing up fine, she attended school, tiny little girl would not say boo to a ghost, hence bullied at school...
Teenager no problem, shy, polite, now going to work 17years of age still polite, but she does speak her mind, especially to me. Will it never end.
So Advert Free to Good Home, One Daughter 17years old, pretty must take after me, polite, but has a sharp tongue if she cannot get her own way.
Or Good swap considered.
P.S Only joking love her to bits, would not change her for the world, just a part of growing up, I hope.
Liz
Teenager no problem, shy, polite, now going to work 17years of age still polite, but she does speak her mind, especially to me. Will it never end.
So Advert Free to Good Home, One Daughter 17years old, pretty must take after me, polite, but has a sharp tongue if she cannot get her own way.
Or Good swap considered.
P.S Only joking love her to bits, would not change her for the world, just a part of growing up, I hope.
Liz
Liz swap your 17 year old daughter for my 26 year old son who is just completing an honours degree in construction management. He has informed his mother that as he cannot afford a mortgage being a mature student when he will meets up with a young lady he will bring her home and live with us. He also has his mother's temper and when things don't go right the air is black. blue and all other colours you care to mention. God help the woman who has a taste of his temper. He lets fly orally - not violent in any way just his language.
Following on from how successful some of our children were at school and have become as adults, this is an extract of a piece of work which I have copied and pasted which my daughter did when she first began studying brain surgery.
She was aged five at the time. I think the piece speaks for itself.
Brain surgery and Psychosurgery
How can brain-surgery alleviate psychopathologies?
In the middle ages it was widely assumed that madness (and migraines) were caused demons trapped inside a sufferer's skull. Their condition could be treated by releasing the demons. To this end patients were trepanned - that is they had holes cut into their skulls. Although we only know of the explanation dating back to the middle ages there is evidence that the practice goes back a lot further - Neolithic skulls with neat trepanning holes in them have been found. Trepanning still has its adherents today, although only in some fairly extreme 'new-age' cults, and not in the orthodox medical professions. It is a relatively safe operation if infection is avoided and causes few side-effects if, as is usually intended, no brain-tissue is damaged. It is also unlikely to have any direct therapeutic effect although there is the very slight possibility that it may have relieved headaches due to peripheral factors like muscle tension or over-pressure of fluid in the brain.
As we shall see, compared with some of the psychosurgical techniques conducted by the medical establishment in their tens of thousands trepanning looks rather benign. This must prompt us to ask what the justifications were for this expansion of brain surgery?
Justifications for brain surgery and psychosurgery
In my last piece of work I briefly explained some theories that psychological functions were localised in distinct areas of the brain. If function is anatomically localised and failings in a specific function lead to a psychopathology then it follows that the cause of a psychopathology might be anatomically localised. Surgery which destroys a region of the brain or disconnects it from the rest of the brain clearly cannot correct whatever is amiss in that region. It may, however, be the case that the signals produced by the dysfunctional region interfere with the normal operation of the rest of the brain. If this is the case then there may be a benefit to removing or disconnecting the dysfunctional region.
A good theoretical argument for surgical intervention therefore requires at least three crucial types of evidence:
Evidence for anatomical localisation of a psychological function.
Evidence that failure of this function plays a role in causing a pathology.
Evidence that the pathology can be alleviated by eliminating the faulty function in its entirety.
Perhaps unsurprisingly such evidence is hard to come by. A weaker justification for surgery might be that some sufferers of a pathology had localised areas of their brain damaged for other reasons, perhaps accident, perhaps some other planned surgery, and that after this damage their psychopathologies were observed to improve. There is not necessarily any theoretical justification for the surgery in terms of a biological cause for the psychopathology, although one might later be developed, but there is at least evidence that the patient's suffering might be alleviated.
In the light of these requirement let us examine how various applications of psychosurgery developed.
Ailments 'treated' by brain surgery or psychosurgery
A range of different psychopathologies have been treated at one time or another using surgery:
Schizophrenia and other psychoses
Aggressive and antisocial behaviour
Motor-disorders
Epilepsy
Surgical treatment of the first two classes of disorder are usually referred to as psychosurgery while the latter are regarded as brain surgery. The difference in terminology is meant to reflect the extent to which the surgery is treating an identifiable physical disorder as opposed to a psychological one.
She was aged five at the time. I think the piece speaks for itself.
Brain surgery and Psychosurgery
How can brain-surgery alleviate psychopathologies?
In the middle ages it was widely assumed that madness (and migraines) were caused demons trapped inside a sufferer's skull. Their condition could be treated by releasing the demons. To this end patients were trepanned - that is they had holes cut into their skulls. Although we only know of the explanation dating back to the middle ages there is evidence that the practice goes back a lot further - Neolithic skulls with neat trepanning holes in them have been found. Trepanning still has its adherents today, although only in some fairly extreme 'new-age' cults, and not in the orthodox medical professions. It is a relatively safe operation if infection is avoided and causes few side-effects if, as is usually intended, no brain-tissue is damaged. It is also unlikely to have any direct therapeutic effect although there is the very slight possibility that it may have relieved headaches due to peripheral factors like muscle tension or over-pressure of fluid in the brain.
As we shall see, compared with some of the psychosurgical techniques conducted by the medical establishment in their tens of thousands trepanning looks rather benign. This must prompt us to ask what the justifications were for this expansion of brain surgery?
Justifications for brain surgery and psychosurgery
In my last piece of work I briefly explained some theories that psychological functions were localised in distinct areas of the brain. If function is anatomically localised and failings in a specific function lead to a psychopathology then it follows that the cause of a psychopathology might be anatomically localised. Surgery which destroys a region of the brain or disconnects it from the rest of the brain clearly cannot correct whatever is amiss in that region. It may, however, be the case that the signals produced by the dysfunctional region interfere with the normal operation of the rest of the brain. If this is the case then there may be a benefit to removing or disconnecting the dysfunctional region.
A good theoretical argument for surgical intervention therefore requires at least three crucial types of evidence:
Evidence for anatomical localisation of a psychological function.
Evidence that failure of this function plays a role in causing a pathology.
Evidence that the pathology can be alleviated by eliminating the faulty function in its entirety.
Perhaps unsurprisingly such evidence is hard to come by. A weaker justification for surgery might be that some sufferers of a pathology had localised areas of their brain damaged for other reasons, perhaps accident, perhaps some other planned surgery, and that after this damage their psychopathologies were observed to improve. There is not necessarily any theoretical justification for the surgery in terms of a biological cause for the psychopathology, although one might later be developed, but there is at least evidence that the patient's suffering might be alleviated.
In the light of these requirement let us examine how various applications of psychosurgery developed.
Ailments 'treated' by brain surgery or psychosurgery
A range of different psychopathologies have been treated at one time or another using surgery:
Schizophrenia and other psychoses
Aggressive and antisocial behaviour
Motor-disorders
Epilepsy
Surgical treatment of the first two classes of disorder are usually referred to as psychosurgery while the latter are regarded as brain surgery. The difference in terminology is meant to reflect the extent to which the surgery is treating an identifiable physical disorder as opposed to a psychological one.
I am sure we would have coped bringing up our two lads alone,
but it was never necessary.
Both sets of grandparents were always near by and more than
willing to help out, even today our 15 year old[16 next week]
always visits one set of grandparents everday after school for a
cuppa.
Its actually nice having a large but close extended family, to
take a little of the troubles off you and to give your kids
someone else to talk to when they really don't want to talk to
their parentsabout something....
but it was never necessary.
Both sets of grandparents were always near by and more than
willing to help out, even today our 15 year old[16 next week]
always visits one set of grandparents everday after school for a
cuppa.
Its actually nice having a large but close extended family, to
take a little of the troubles off you and to give your kids
someone else to talk to when they really don't want to talk to
their parentsabout something....
Thanks! but I'm sure you're neighbours wouldn't appreciate rap music blarring out of the opened windows. Also, for some strange reason every light is left on in the house and apparently, she never leaves them on. Must get an electrician in to check it out.
Lisa
I am sure your right having grandparents around, is good for our children,I so wish my parents and hubby's parents were alive today to help out, I am sure my mum would have something to say to my daughter about the way she speaks to me, as I was a little Angel, compared to my daughter. Liz
NO disrespects Lisa but if your daughter wrote that article about brain surgery, etc. at five years of age, I think I will stick to my original offer and swap children with Liz - her daughter appears to be more of a scatter brain.
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