Gas bottle advice please

[Holidaysforever]

Hi
I have a 5kg patio gas bottle to which I understand that if it has red handles it is propane gas, can this be used in a caravan and if so, will it fit into the locker. Many thanks.

 

[Woodentop]

Does it have the right type of connection?

 

[Holidaysforever]

not sure, I have the regulator that is used for the BBQ, guess I could use that if patio gas is suitable, Calor want £60 to get a 6kg propane bottle (non exchange) which seems a lot, if patio gas not suitable will try and find a 2nd hand empty/full bottle.

 

[woodsieboy]

You can buy 6kg calor propane on e bay empty or full,then get replacement at dealer, sometimes you will find the bottles at local recycling centre, can then exchange at calor dealer, either way lot less money than you have been quoted.

 

[Woodentop]

Or alternatively use FloGas for which many dealers will not charge a cylinder deposit so you only pay for the gas.

 

[swpostie]

I would just go to somewhere that exchanges gas bottles (ideally someone you know and get on with) and try and exchange it for a 6kg propane.

Officially (I've just looked at Calor's website) you can exchange your bottle for another within the same group without signing a new agreement.

Your group consists of a few patio gas cylinders and a regular 13kg propane (which may fit in your gas locker but probably won't)

If you can't find someone who'll swap a patio gas for a 6kg propane then I would go for the 13kg propane - you'll probably be able to find someone who'll swap a 13kg propane for a 6kg propane.

When I got my caravan I only had one gas bottle (a 6kg propane). Then someone gave me a gas barbecue with a 15kg butane which I was able to swap for another 6kg propane with no difficulty at all (despite the fact that the 15kg butane is in a group of its own)

So, don't despair - all is not lost!

 

[Hutch]

Holidays, as you are hoping to be on a season pitch, why not go for the 13Kg Propane (Red) or Blue, Butane if your not going to be out in really cold conditions, and use a longer hose pipe and keep the bottle out of sit round the back of the caravan. The calor 6kg and Calor lite bottles are way to expensive. And at present you dont want to spend out on Gas flo etc until you are certain that your happy with caravanning again.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Lets start with your caravan.

If it fairly recent then it will have a bulkhead mounted regulator, and you need to have the correct pigtails for the type of gas bottle you want to use. This works for butane or propane gas bottles. I don't know if you can get pigtails for the Patio gas bottles. If you can get them, the that's fine.

If its an older caravan with gas bottle mounted regulators, then you would need to have a regulator that's 28mB for Butane gas or 37mB for Propane gas

The only other point on that type of bottle may bit's size and will it fit in the gas locker on the caravan. It is a sensible requirement that gas bottles must only be used and transported in the upright attitude, and secured to prevent them falling over. There will be fittings inside the gas bottle locker to ensure this. This is to ensure that only gas vapour can leave the bottle, If its on its side it will release Liquefied gas which is highly dangerous and can turn the cylinder into a gas propelled projectile.

The same requirement applies external gas bottles, so bear that in mind that you should have a gas cage. Also some sites may have bylaws that disallow the use of external bottles.

 

[saint-spoon]

Like PJ says I would have a look at what you haver in the locker and see how much room you have. My van cam fitted with a bulkhead mounted regulator and a rats tail with propane connector so may caravan runs on propane which is fine by me as we are out and about all year round.

 

[brian_c]

Hello holidays forever.
I have a virtually empty 7kg butane (blue) Calor cylinder. This can be exchanged for the same again or the 6kg propane.
So I'm in Sheffield if that's within a sensible drive from your location then jump in your car and come and fetch it. No charge!
You will have to ask one of the moderators for my email address then contact me if you are interested.
Best wishes Brian.

 

[Woodentop]

To clarify a point, Calor will exchange any bottle for any bottle under the same contract 6Kg Propane or 7Kg Butane. AIUI you can exchange a 6Kg for, say, a 13Kg under the same contract, but if you want to go back or the other way you have to sign a new contract and pay the bottle deposit.

That is why I suggested FloGas in an earlier post as not only do they not have this stupid (but money-making) rule, but their dealers often do not charge the bottle deposit in the first place.

 

[swpostie]

According to Calor's website their bottles fall into 7 groups.

You can exchange any bottle in a group for another bottle in the same group without a new agreement.

If you want to exchange your bottle for a bottle in a different group then a new agreement has to be signed.

The groups are as follows:

Group A: 4.5kg butane, 3.9kg propane

Group B: 7kg butane, 6kg propane, 6kg Calor's Lite propane

Group C: 15kg butane

Group D: 5kg patio gas propane, 6kg BBQ butane, 13kg patio gas propane, 13kg propane

Group E: 47kg propane, 19kg propane, 18kg propane liquid off-take, 12kg propane liquid off-take

Group F: Calor 340

Group G: 6kg cube gas

 

[Holidaysforever]

Brian
Thank you so much for the offer, but am not in your area unfortunately.

 

[Holidaysforever]

Not sure what the difference is between flogas and calor gas, would value clarification. Thanks very much.

 

[Holidaysforever]

Brian
Thank you so much for the offer, but am not in your area unfortunately. Could have been a result.

 

[Beehpee]

I've exchanged bottles numerous times for another that is not in the same group as far as calor grouping go's, I just go to a garage that sells gas, drop the empty by the cage where it's stored go inside tell them what I want and where the empty is, always worked for me, not being rude about the staff in these places but they get paid lousy money so most aren't overly concerned and who can really blame them.

BP

 

[Woodentop]

Not sure what the difference is between flogas and calor gas, would value clarification. Thanks very much.

In terms of gas and connection, none, just a different supplier.

Have a look at

- they are based in Doncaster and sell largely through hire outlets.

 

[Hutch]

Woodentop, thanks for the info about Gas Flo, I mistook this for "Gaslow" earlier in the thread. And now I am thinking about changing to a 11 kg Gas Flo cylinder as they are much cheaper than Calor. . And I still have an agreement form to get some money back from Calor.

 

[saint-spoon]

Hello holidays forever.
I have a virtually empty 7kg butane (blue) Calor cylinder. This can be exchanged for the same again or the 6kg propane.
So I'm in Sheffield if that's within a sensible drive from your location then jump in your car and come and fetch it. No charge!
You will have to ask one of the moderators for my email address then contact me if you are interested.
Best wishes Brian.

YIKES... :dry:

do you really expect the Mods to be party to such an under hand, immoral and potentially illegal (not sure if we settled the legality issues) of transferring gas cylinders from one person to another without the written consent of the originating company.

 

[Dustydog]

Woodentop, thanks for the info about Gas Flo, I mistook this for "Gaslow" earlier in the thread. And now I am thinking about changing to a 11 kg Gas Flo cylinder as they are much cheaper than Calor. . And I still have an agreement form to get some money back from Calor.

Hutch
It's Flo Gas :silly:
They used to be called Handy Gas and had a depot near me. I never bothered as finding replacements around the UK etc wasn't easy. The real question is how often do you to change a cylinder Not that often even with all year round touring. The saving on the gas never seemed worthwhile to me . Not even a pint.
Now there are some clever ones out there who know how to refill cheaper but all I can suggest is go for the refillables like Sproket

 

[brian_c]

YIKES... :dry:

do you really expect the Mods to be party to such an under hand, immoral and potentially illegal (not sure if we settled the legality issues) of transferring gas cylinders from one person to another without the written consent of the originating company.[/quote]

Apologies to the mods if my post was in anyway immoral or under hand.
I was genuinely trying to do another forum member a bit of a favour.
I suppose I'm getting a bit too sensitive in my old age

I am sure either of the mods though would have explained to me my error without resorting to Immoral or Under Hand. Potentially illegal I suppose could have been within their text!
Best wishes to all Brian

 

[Parksy]

YIKES... :dry:

do you really expect the Mods to be party to such an under hand, immoral and potentially illegal (not sure if we settled the legality issues) of transferring gas cylinders from one person to another without the written consent of the originating company.

Apologies to the mods if my post was in anyway immoral or under hand.
I was genuinely trying to do another forum member a bit of a favour.
I suppose I'm getting a bit too sensitive in my old age

I am sure either of the mods though would have explained to me my error without resorting to Immoral or Under Hand. Potentially illegal I suppose could have been within their text!
Best wishes to all Brian

Don't worry Brian.

Offering to try to help a fellow caravanner out with a spare gas bottle is no more immoral or underhand than depositing the bottle at the council tip, and there are many suggestions to pick up a lpg cannister from such a source in many related topics on this and other caravan forums.
I don't know the precise legal position in this instance and I'm not about to waste my time in trying to find out either.
You have absolutely nothing to apologise for.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Not sure what the difference is between flogas and calor gas, would value clarification. Thanks very much.

Hi Holidaysforever,
Calor Gas and Flogas are just distributors of LPG gasses. There are many different companies selling these gasses, and its very much like high street filling stations that are branded like Shell and Tesco ( to name but two) the name is not really important as they are all basically selling the same stuff.

Unlike Petrol and Diesel, where you will do some very expensive damage if you use the wrong one, Caravans are quite lucky because almost without exception you can swap between Butane and Propane LPG without any problems - except the one major difference between Butane and Propane is the ambient temperature which affects the way the gasses work.

Butane gas will not vaporise properly below a bottle temperature of about 4C. This means butane is really only a two or possibly three season gas. Propane on the other hand continues to vapourise with bottle temperatures down to about -40C. This makes it great for winter caravanning.

There are some other small difference in the gas but most of them are too small for the normal user to notice.

Bothe Butane and Propane bottles have different bottle connectors, so you can't accidentally change over.This stems form the days when you needed a 37mb regulator for Propane but only a 28mBar regulator for Butane.In modern caravans both gasses now use the same regulator pressure of 30mBar. which is now the European standard. Again in the UK Commercial propane always uses the same bottle connector, abut there are some specialist uses such as patio heaters which use a different bottle connector.

There are greater variations in Butane bottle connectors, but the sizes most commonly used by caravanners tend to have the same type of connectors.

If you look at continental gas suppliers probably the best know is Camping Gaz, and they use totally different bottle connectors.

BUtane is almost exclusively a gas used in leaiures pursuits and only a handful of companies actually sell it., where as Propane is used extensively in commercial and business.

 

[saint-spoon]

Apologies to the mods if my post was in anyway immoral or under hand.
I was genuinely trying to do another forum member a bit of a favour.
I suppose I'm getting a bit too sensitive in my old age

I am sure either of the mods though would have explained to me my error without resorting to Immoral or Under Hand. Potentially illegal I suppose could have been within their text!
Best wishes to all Brian

My apologies if I caused any offence or upset, I was just jesting certainly didn't intend to cause either. Of course a typed message loses any sense of jocular inflection. In way of explanation we had a rather lengthy debate on the subject of gas cylinder a while back, and it went on a bit with some slightly heated opinions.

 

[Gafferbill]

.........I have always thought that Calor should be willing to pay for the return of an empty gas cylinder as all the cylinders with their name on them are their property.

What could be simpler than to just charge an extra £10 if you do not have an empty cylinder when you want to purchase a full one..... and pay you £10 if you are just returning an empty.
Their lazy business model means that they cover all their costs for cylinders by loading the amount they charge for gas.....the most expensive in Europe.
It also results in a black market for cylinders and some people not bothering to return them at all or dumping them.
I personally have obtained two empty 13kg Calor Propane cylinders by just picking up abandoned ones dumped on rough ground!!

PS......I know if you have the hire agreement paperwork you can get some money back on an empty for a limited period of time.