Gas bottles

[Mogwyth]

So who removes them while their van is in storage. We have just had a call from our storage site telling us that under fire regs all gas bottles must be removed from caravans and boats whilst on site.

Not very amused at having haul 2 x 6.5kg bottles back and forth and you can guarantee one day they will get forgotten ant the van is 30 odd miles away from home and we usually head off after work, which is only a few miles from the site..

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Have you seen film footage of storage sites where virtually every van has been completely destroyed by fire caused by chain reaction of adjacent gas bottles exploding? You probably wouldn't ask if you have seen the carnage caused.

see here

or here

 

[emmerson]

If its a site rule, you either have to accept, or move on, but I must say its one I've not heard before.
But then, I've never had a van in storage either1

 

[Raywood]

It is certainly not national fire regulations as the CC do not impose it on their storage sites and they follow the letter of the law. In practice Calor and similar UK bottles should not explode in a caravan fire as the caravan will burn out too quickly for this. The cylinders are extremely strong and as long as they are turned off at the cylinder valve should be no problem.

 

[Mogwyth]

Woodlands, given that I am often driving around with up to 80 litres of LPG underneath my car I think It might just understand the risk of gas bottle/tank explosions and the risks even in a fire are actually quite low, its something I researched before sitting my kids on top of potential bomb!

Thanks for that Ray.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It is extremely rare for a gas bottle to physically explode, BUT LPG bottles conforming to the UK regulations have an over pressure relief system.

If a gas bottle is exposed to the high temperatures of a fire the internal pressure will rise, and to avoid a bottle splitting, the pressure relief valve in the normal control valve should vent gas vapour to the atmosphere. Obviously in the presence of an ignition source this gas will burn and it will be quite spectacular. It would certainly be enough to cause a caravan to set alight.

This is one reason why gas bottles must be stored, transported and used in the upright position. If the bottle can fall onto its side, there is a grave danger the valve will vent Liquified Gas which produces other containment problems. Unsecured bottles can become dangerous flame throwing projectiles, that is why the fire service are always very wary when they suspect gas bottles are involved.

I have seen a storage site agreement where the small print called for the gas bottles to be removed from the caravan or boat. In one case the site had a dedicated gas bottle storage cage away from the caravans. These policies are often not specifically fire regulations but stipulations from insurance companies, and they do make good sense.

 

[DrZhivago]

Have you seen film footage of storage sites where virtually every van has been completely destroyed by fire caused by chain reaction of adjacent gas bottles exploding? You probably wouldn't ask if you have seen the carnage caused.

Better there than at home. Mogwyth actually asked who removes gas bottles while their van is in storage (even though he forgot a question mark ). Sounds like a fair question, and I'm also interested to hear any replies, but your response implies that everyone does. (I don't put my van in storage btw). But from the others' replies it seems that is not the case.

If the storage site management are worried about it, they should provide a bunker to store all the bottles.

 

[ProfJohnL]

If the storage site management are worried about it, they should provide a bunker to store all the bottles.

A bunker is exactly what you don't want. LPG gasses are heavier than air and so will naturally collect in dips and hollows. As I stated above, its cage with good ventilation that is the approved holding area.

 

[DrZhivago]

If the storage site management are worried about it, they should provide a bunker to store all the bottles.

A bunker is exactly what you don't want. LPG gasses are heavier than air and so will naturally collect in dips and hollows.

Agree the second sentence, but I was using "bunker" a bit loosely. I did not mean like an underground air-raid shelter. In industry such things are placed in enclosures with strong walls, with the floor a little or a lot above ground level, with a partly open side facing a direction that would not cause damage in an explosion which would mostly be directed upwards anyway. A bit OTT for a few dozen caravan bottles though.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Perhaps your industry has specific requirements as you describe, but the general gas bottle compound as used by most factories and point of sale is a remote cage. Explosion of an LPG bottle is exceptionally rare, as the gas its self in concentrations over 12% in air is actually difficult to burn yet alone explode.

LPG bottles would be more likely to hydraulically split rather than explode, but the UK safety valve should prevent this.

More stringent storage facilities may be required if mixed gas (Oxygen, acetylene and other industrial gasses) types wee being stored.