gas regulator

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Mar 14, 2005
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Hello Fernley,

An interesting proposal!

Certainly the cooling effect that occurs when a gas is decompressed is well known to me. If any water has collected on the atmospheric side of the regulator diagram, there have been instances where the heat absorption of the expanding gas has frozen the water and thus the diaphragm can no longer function correctly, and pressure regulation is compromised.

The ability of the body and needle valve to conduct heat too or from the site had not occurred to me, and if there are aerosols of oil or other detritus in the vapour flow, then any that are sensitive to condensing onto cooler surfaces, this must be considered.

However there is other evidence that suggests your theory is not the whole storey. When the regulators are sited higher than the surrounding pipe work the problem seems not to occur. Thus if it were aerosols the deposition would occur regardless of the relative height of the regulator as they are in the Vapour flow. As height seems to be a factor then gravity is indicated, and that will only affect fluids that are formed outside of the regulator and are able to run back to it.

I would also cite other incidents, where gas appliances that are located at the lowest point of the pipe work have been found to have oily deposits occluding gas ways and injectors, yet the regulator and other elevated appliances have not been affected.

This is one of those situations where it is difficult to prove anything, but there is no evidence that suggests any of the metal fittings or pipe work producing any fluid from their structures, so that leaves the LPG or flexible 'rubberised' components.

The LPG producers are adamant that their product has not changed in its chemical composition, but they cannot be totally sure of what is inside their bottles in the way of contaminants. As most will be denser than the LPG, they will collect at the bottom of the tanks, the farthest point from the valve. As these tend to stay in their liquid for even at normal atmospheric pressure, the chances of them vaporising and being delivered with the LPG vapour are pretty remote. - but not impossible if the bottle has been stored on its side or even upside down.

On the other hand the flexible pipe will often have been through manufacturing processes, that dose the materials with various plasticisers. If the process has not fully cured the product, some of the agents may remain lodged or embedded in the molecular structures of the pipe wall but not chemically bonded. When they are exposed to the dissolving and lubricating properties of LPG's (and other petro-checmical based solvents) the agents may become sufficiently free to escape the walls and collect as a fluid in the pipework. Gravity does the rest.
 
Jul 19, 2005
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Hello Fernley,

An interesting proposal!

Certainly the cooling effect that occurs when a gas is decompressed is well known to me. If any water has collected on the atmospheric side of the regulator diagram, there have been instances where the heat absorption of the expanding gas has frozen the water and thus the diaphragm can no longer function correctly, and pressure regulation is compromised.

The ability of the body and needle valve to conduct heat too or from the site had not occurred to me, and if there are aerosols of oil or other detritus in the vapour flow, then any that are sensitive to condensing onto cooler surfaces, this must be considered.

However there is other evidence that suggests your theory is not the whole storey. When the regulators are sited higher than the surrounding pipe work the problem seems not to occur. Thus if it were aerosols the deposition would occur regardless of the relative height of the regulator as they are in the Vapour flow. As height seems to be a factor then gravity is indicated, and that will only affect fluids that are formed outside of the regulator and are able to run back to it.

I would also cite other incidents, where gas appliances that are located at the lowest point of the pipe work have been found to have oily deposits occluding gas ways and injectors, yet the regulator and other elevated appliances have not been affected.

This is one of those situations where it is difficult to prove anything, but there is no evidence that suggests any of the metal fittings or pipe work producing any fluid from their structures, so that leaves the LPG or flexible 'rubberised' components.

The LPG producers are adamant that their product has not changed in its chemical composition, but they cannot be totally sure of what is inside their bottles in the way of contaminants. As most will be denser than the LPG, they will collect at the bottom of the tanks, the farthest point from the valve. As these tend to stay in their liquid for even at normal atmospheric pressure, the chances of them vaporising and being delivered with the LPG vapour are pretty remote. - but not impossible if the bottle has been stored on its side or even upside down.

On the other hand the flexible pipe will often have been through manufacturing processes, that dose the materials with various plasticisers. If the process has not fully cured the product, some of the agents may remain lodged or embedded in the molecular structures of the pipe wall but not chemically bonded. When they are exposed to the dissolving and lubricating properties of LPG's (and other petro-checmical based solvents) the agents may become sufficiently free to escape the walls and collect as a fluid in the pipework. Gravity does the rest.
Taking on board Damian's useful comments and looking at the bulkhead regulators available I purchased a Clesse Regulator that provided the facility to switch between cylinders as I am planning to change from taking 2 butane bottles to 1 butane and 1 propane because I frequently end up going away in December and January nowadays.

I booked the caravan in to have the regulator fitted in a higher position (I have a 2005 Senator Arizona) but when I arrived there this morning the Workshop Manager looked at the Clesse Regulator and stated that he was not willing to fit it as it did not have the right test point to enable him to test the installation and stated that I had purchased a Regulator intended for a different make of caravan. As I needed to have the gas system fully functioning before my son borrows the caravan in a fortnight's time I had to agree to a Truma GOK regulator being supplied and fitted.

As the Truma Duocomfort changeover (I have a 2005 Senator Arizona) has been removed along with the old regulator on the basis that this will also have been affected I now find that I have no facility for switching between gas cylinders at all (apart from the physical disconnection of the pigtail from the cylinder which if a change from butane to propane is also wanted will also changing the pigtail completely).

I feel disappointed because I believe that I have not managed to get the installation I wanted because of a lack of knowledge and tools at the Caravan Workshop rather than because I was seeking something in breach of any regulations.

I have to hope that the Company from which I purchased the Clesse Regulator are willing to take it back into stock.

Alun
 
Jul 19, 2005
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Taking on board Damian's useful comments and looking at the bulkhead regulators available I purchased a Clesse Regulator that provided the facility to switch between cylinders as I am planning to change from taking 2 butane bottles to 1 butane and 1 propane because I frequently end up going away in December and January nowadays.

I booked the caravan in to have the regulator fitted in a higher position (I have a 2005 Senator Arizona) but when I arrived there this morning the Workshop Manager looked at the Clesse Regulator and stated that he was not willing to fit it as it did not have the right test point to enable him to test the installation and stated that I had purchased a Regulator intended for a different make of caravan. As I needed to have the gas system fully functioning before my son borrows the caravan in a fortnight's time I had to agree to a Truma GOK regulator being supplied and fitted.

As the Truma Duocomfort changeover (I have a 2005 Senator Arizona) has been removed along with the old regulator on the basis that this will also have been affected I now find that I have no facility for switching between gas cylinders at all (apart from the physical disconnection of the pigtail from the cylinder which if a change from butane to propane is also wanted will also changing the pigtail completely).

I feel disappointed because I believe that I have not managed to get the installation I wanted because of a lack of knowledge and tools at the Caravan Workshop rather than because I was seeking something in breach of any regulations.

I have to hope that the Company from which I purchased the Clesse Regulator are willing to take it back into stock.

Alun
 

Damian

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Mar 14, 2005
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Alun, your dealer is talking out of his rear end regarding the Clesse regulator not being suitable for your van. They are a universal replacement for any of the bulkhead regulators and come in the same sizes as GOK, namely 8mm and 10mm fitments, and exactly the same pigtail as the Truma type.

They are perfectly suitable and if your dealer knew what he was talking about he would know that they are fitted to many of the newer Avondale vans (sadly no longer with us) and that his Truma test equipment works perfectly well with the adaptors which are available from Clesse.
 
Jul 19, 2005
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Alun, your dealer is talking out of his rear end regarding the Clesse regulator not being suitable for your van. They are a universal replacement for any of the bulkhead regulators and come in the same sizes as GOK, namely 8mm and 10mm fitments, and exactly the same pigtail as the Truma type.

They are perfectly suitable and if your dealer knew what he was talking about he would know that they are fitted to many of the newer Avondale vans (sadly no longer with us) and that his Truma test equipment works perfectly well with the adaptors which are available from Clesse.
Damian

Thank you for your confirmation. I was considering taking my van to them for its Annual Service as I had found that the mobile man who effectively took over the servicing work of the dealership where I purchased the caravan was not doing a thorough job but will not be doing this now. I'm disappointed because I always found the previous Workshop Manager (I had purchased my previous caravan from there) very good.

If it had not been the last opportunity to get it done before my son borrows the caravan I would have felt able to discuss the matter in more detail and then if necessary go elsewhere.

Alun
 
Aug 10, 2009
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Damian

Thank you for your confirmation. I was considering taking my van to them for its Annual Service as I had found that the mobile man who effectively took over the servicing work of the dealership where I purchased the caravan was not doing a thorough job but will not be doing this now. I'm disappointed because I always found the previous Workshop Manager (I had purchased my previous caravan from there) very good.

If it had not been the last opportunity to get it done before my son borrows the caravan I would have felt able to discuss the matter in more detail and then if necessary go elsewhere.

Alun
I have a 2 year old Fleetwood Sonata (Adria body)and this weekend the Gok regulator Blocked. The pig-tail pipe from the cylinder has a 90 degree brass fitting to connect it on to the top of the bulk-head mounted regulator. this would make it unlikely that the condensate would drain down into the regulator by gravity. I noticed that the replacement Gok now has the inlet connection horizontaly on the front rather than on the top.

I changed the regulator myself as on a Sunday afternoon there are only two choices and i wasn't going to pack up and go home at the start of our holiday. I wouldn't endanger my family or myself and have checked and monitored the work. I am used to managing mechanical installations in the construction industry and am aware of the hazards. I think i'm with Scotts Lad on this one. As for who pays, it would cost me more in fuel back and forth to the dealer than the
 

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