Good news for us Caravan luggers totally the reverse of what we thought . Fuel Duty Frozen yet again. Just a case of getting the petroleum companys to freeze their prices .or reduce them .
Sir Roger
Sir Roger
Good News In the Budget
- Thread starter SirRogerFFS
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PHOENIXFLIER said:
You mean us 'Tax Dodgers' that were advised to set up our own businesses and sell our services to the companies that wouldn't put too experienced, over qualified people on their payroll in order for those companies to not pay Employers NICs (National Insurance Contributions). Even though as a Ltd Co that pays Employee and Employer NICs, Income Tax as an employee, Corporation Tax, Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance that both attract Insurance Premium Tax, and collect VAT on behalf of HMRC the gross tax paid is higher than being a PAYE employee.
Of course we 'Tax Dodgers' get paid every week of the year, 30 days paid holiday + Bank Holidays, sick pay, healthcare, Life Insurance, company car, fuel card, child care vouchers, health club membership and know exactly when the next pay cheque is coming in and for how much; and if no pay cheque due can't claim benefits of any kind. Not to mention the wait for 120 days and more to get an invoice paid by the big companies and the demand and threats from the VATman if their slice isn't paid because the big companies haven't paid the first invoice in the first VAT period.
As usual there is a vast chasm between reality and HM Government.
I note there has been no economic growth for 9 consecutive years. Wonder why?
I don't think the Conservatives have done themselves any favours with the rise in NIC for the self-employed, if I was still running my own little one man band business I would just pass it on to the customer,
camel said:
Reading up on it self-employed pay 9% where employed pay 12% (in the same NI class) so they are slowly equalizing it and at the same time removing an odd-ball NI class that self employed also pay. Sounds fair to me.
At one time I was self employed for 3 years.
WoodlandsCamper said:camel said:
Reading up on it self-employed pay 9% where employed pay 12% (in the same NI class) so they are slowly equalizing it and at the same time removing an odd-ball NI class that self employed also pay. Sounds fair to me.
The equalising argument fails a simple test. Pay in the same get the same out. Punishment before reward!!
There are 2 root causes this NIC change has failed to address. The previous Chancellor, in order to reduce unemployment figures introduced the 'gig economy / self employed / small business / off payroll working' and found to his horror that the tax take dropped massively. Employers NIC for the non PAYE dropped massively, low rates of pay took people out of paying NIC and income tax. Delve further into the level of off payroll workers are delivering the revival in car manufacturing for a Midlands based co to realise how many non PAYE people are there. In the public sector PAYE employees on a Friday left with massive payouts, returned on Monday as a PSC (Personal Services Company) supplied bod doing the same job at much higher rates. The most famous of these was the University Loans Company boss. This is known as 'disguised employment'. So the cost to the public purse has risen considerably and productivity has dropped.
One positive thing that came out of this approach was that Ltd Co's could be registered at your domestic address, further enabling a flexible workforce.
All non PAYE workers have been tarred with the same brush, as that is the simple way to tackle it, rather than address the more difficult and much more rewarding, in tax take terms, such as getting due taxes from mega corporations. For example this NIC thing will get £400m in the first year. If Google paid their Corporation Tax at the correct rate and back paid it, that is £880m per year for the last 8 years based on declared figures of sales and profit. There are countless other companies to get due tax from, at scale.
The other aspect that has been mis reported by the current Chancellor is the Dividend that Directors / Shareholders take to 'make up their pay'. A fully compliant Ltd Co Director / Shareholder can only take dividends from monies that are taxed profit and had Corporation Tax at 20% paid. Anyone taking regular 'Dividends' before year end accounts have been submitted and Corporation Tax paid are non compliant.
This whole are is very complicated, and yesterdays Budget has not shown leadership to grow the economy through a flexible and entrepreneurial workforce.
It helps there is no duty rise in fuel but ant saving will be more than wiped out by the increase in insurance premiums to cover an extra 2% tax and the increase in damages.
Cameron swore in his manifesto NI would not increase hmy:
Perhaps PH should read a bit more . Shame he didn't reduce overseas aid to pay for those at home
hmy:Perhaps PH should read a bit more . Shame he didn't reduce overseas aid to pay for those at home
I am neither condoning or condemning the change to NI for the self employed.
The fact is that no party, politician or prime minister can make such sweeping statement such as "No Tax Increase" in an election manifesto and be held to it.
There is no such thing as fiscal stability, the state of the economy (domestic, national or international) is in constant flux and as a consequence you cannot make a definitive statement now, about how that economy will look in 6 to 9 months time. You can budget which is a plan, but invariably something unforeseen comes along and you have to change the budget.
I believe Mr Cameron was pretty certain the Brexit vote would be to 'remain', and his planning would have been based with that in mind. It would have had the advantage of the fiscal relationship with particularly Europe being fundamentally unchanged. This could have given him some greater confidence when he made the "no increase" statement.
When the vote narrowly went to Leave; this I suspect was a situation Mr Cameron had not fully prepared for, and also being against his stated preference, made his role as PM untenable, precipitating his resignation.
Until the leave vote had actually occurred, I honestly don't think anybody had really understood the complexity of how to actually leave the EU. I think that was demonstrated when the leading leave politicians all suddenly backed away from taking on the task of negotiating the UKs divorce.
The referendum outcome is going to have consequences for all of us. The landscape has changed dramatically and it's bound to mean fiscular promises made before Brexit are all up for debate and change.
The fact is that no party, politician or prime minister can make such sweeping statement such as "No Tax Increase" in an election manifesto and be held to it.
There is no such thing as fiscal stability, the state of the economy (domestic, national or international) is in constant flux and as a consequence you cannot make a definitive statement now, about how that economy will look in 6 to 9 months time. You can budget which is a plan, but invariably something unforeseen comes along and you have to change the budget.
I believe Mr Cameron was pretty certain the Brexit vote would be to 'remain', and his planning would have been based with that in mind. It would have had the advantage of the fiscal relationship with particularly Europe being fundamentally unchanged. This could have given him some greater confidence when he made the "no increase" statement.
When the vote narrowly went to Leave; this I suspect was a situation Mr Cameron had not fully prepared for, and also being against his stated preference, made his role as PM untenable, precipitating his resignation.
Until the leave vote had actually occurred, I honestly don't think anybody had really understood the complexity of how to actually leave the EU. I think that was demonstrated when the leading leave politicians all suddenly backed away from taking on the task of negotiating the UKs divorce.
The referendum outcome is going to have consequences for all of us. The landscape has changed dramatically and it's bound to mean fiscular promises made before Brexit are all up for debate and change.
ProfJohnL said:
As usual Prof, eloquently put.
However financial forecasts, budgets, plans are akin to weather forecasts and should be taken as such
The referendum outcome will have opportunities for us all. I don't subscribe to the doom and gloom mongers. Trade has and always will be global. Memories are very short. Have the Commonwealth countries such as Australia and New Zealand withered and died since the UK dumped on them when joining the 'Common Market'? Think not.
Whilst the EU may be a customer bloc of c700m, the rest of the world is c10x at 7bn.
In these emotive times where rational thought goes out of the window for soundbites; I reviewed my lifetime and where income has come from. My late father worked all over the globe, albeit developing weapons of mass destruction and keeping the peace, which meant I travelled and learned globally. In my adult working life in pure monetary revenue through business is concerned less than 1% has been from the EU, 30% from the UK and the rest from across the globe.
My first proper job was on the world's first 'mega project', at over $1bn with an asset life expectancy of 35 years. 20 years later I was the driver in upgrading that asset and life extended to 100 years. The upgrade cost £3.6m, in the first operational year after it increased revenue by $3.5bn. All through UK Engineering capability that globally was not available. I took my daughter to see it a couple of years ago. The relevance of recalling that is we, the UK has the chance to break the cycle of race to the bottom and deliver value add across the globe. The missing link is leadership at both political and corporate level.
I do enjoy this forum for the range of interactions on varicous subjects
Prof wrote:- “I think that was demonstrated when the leading leave politicians all suddenly backed away from taking on the task of negotiating the UKs divorce.”
I think you’ve misrepresented the case there Prof. - The leave campaign was not a political party (apart from UKIP and few other leavers associated themselves with them) so therefore there was no one to appoint any of them if they weren’t already in government and favoured as it turned out by Mrs. May who herself was a remainer (albeit a quiet one) – Michael Gove blotted his copy book when he knifed Boris, so he was not to be trusted by anyone else and was out. Only David Davis was a name on the leave side and he got the job so who else was there? - Who backed away? Not being asked is not the same!
I think you’ve misrepresented the case there Prof. - The leave campaign was not a political party (apart from UKIP and few other leavers associated themselves with them) so therefore there was no one to appoint any of them if they weren’t already in government and favoured as it turned out by Mrs. May who herself was a remainer (albeit a quiet one) – Michael Gove blotted his copy book when he knifed Boris, so he was not to be trusted by anyone else and was out. Only David Davis was a name on the leave side and he got the job so who else was there? - Who backed away? Not being asked is not the same!
Hello KeefySher,
I'm certainly not predicting doom and gloom is the inevitable outcome of Brexit, but I am predicting there will be changes. Change always brings uncertainties, and that produces opportunities. I do agree with you it needs good leadership to maximise those opportunities, at all levels.
Good leadership does not always make the leaders popular, as sometimes it means taking decisions that may having to face a conflict where there are highly polarised positions, and one side may be a winner and one side will be a loser, but overall a good leader will consider the bigger picture to move the organisation they lead forward.
As we agree, the global trade and commercial is situation is very fluid, and whilst looking back to the "good times" we can't ignore what's happened between then and now and simply move back to the previous world order. The Pre EU bridges between the UK and other trading partners have been burned. and there are no guarantees our old partners will want us back yet alone on the same old terms. Will they trust us? after all we were unfaithful before.
There is a world out there and we are going to have to work hard to gain their confidence.
Hello Gabs
I never claimed the leave campaign was a political party, but it was a clear movement and it had several high profile politicians who spearheaded their public campaign. There were opportunities for some of them to seek the Conservatives leadership role, Virtually all of them ruled themselves out.
Its a quirk of the UK's governmental structure that ministers of the Crown do not have to be elected MP's! The Queen invites someone to be her Prime Minister. It could be any British Subject. However its usually the leader of the party with the biggest number of sitting MP's or the one who is likely to command a majority in the commons. In the same way, the PM is free to invite any UK citizen to take control of a department or process. It rarely happens becasue the PM will normally want to be sure of having political control of ministers in the Cabinet. But in theory any of the leave supporters could have been called to serve.
I'm certainly not predicting doom and gloom is the inevitable outcome of Brexit, but I am predicting there will be changes. Change always brings uncertainties, and that produces opportunities. I do agree with you it needs good leadership to maximise those opportunities, at all levels.
Good leadership does not always make the leaders popular, as sometimes it means taking decisions that may having to face a conflict where there are highly polarised positions, and one side may be a winner and one side will be a loser, but overall a good leader will consider the bigger picture to move the organisation they lead forward.
As we agree, the global trade and commercial is situation is very fluid, and whilst looking back to the "good times" we can't ignore what's happened between then and now and simply move back to the previous world order. The Pre EU bridges between the UK and other trading partners have been burned. and there are no guarantees our old partners will want us back yet alone on the same old terms. Will they trust us? after all we were unfaithful before.
There is a world out there and we are going to have to work hard to gain their confidence.
Hello Gabs
I never claimed the leave campaign was a political party, but it was a clear movement and it had several high profile politicians who spearheaded their public campaign. There were opportunities for some of them to seek the Conservatives leadership role, Virtually all of them ruled themselves out.
Its a quirk of the UK's governmental structure that ministers of the Crown do not have to be elected MP's! The Queen invites someone to be her Prime Minister. It could be any British Subject. However its usually the leader of the party with the biggest number of sitting MP's or the one who is likely to command a majority in the commons. In the same way, the PM is free to invite any UK citizen to take control of a department or process. It rarely happens becasue the PM will normally want to be sure of having political control of ministers in the Cabinet. But in theory any of the leave supporters could have been called to serve.
Fortunately I dont pay NI contributions being over 65 but its unfair to head towards the same contribution but without all of the benefits,no sick pay,not eligible for unemployment pay if you have no work.There is a reason Uber etc want workers self employed and its not because its better for their staff
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