The Welsh Assembly pay the university fees for students from Wales even if they go to an English University, I'm pretty sure their parents don't feel this is a waste of public money and I'm also pretty sure I know what English students think about it too!
gordon brown
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If you recall, I didn't direct it at any specific person, I used it collectively and you said that yourself took offence....and I ask again, in what way are the English 'second class citizens'... ? Just repeating the claim over and over again doesn't give it any more meaning?
Curiously enough, after the 'Jock' incident, I did indeed 'go quiet' because I really wasn't being that serious, but then the other day on a Radio4 quiz program, one of the Scottish guests was referred to as Jock, and promptly took offense, I guess if the person it's directed at is offended, then it's offensive.
George
... and I wonder, when wee Fraser is old enough, what University Gordy will send him to?The Welsh Assembly pay the university fees for students from Wales even if they go to an English University, I'm pretty sure their parents don't feel this is a waste of public money and I'm also pretty sure I know what English students think about it too!
oops wait no ...... if Cromwell comes back I will be plain Mr. Braykewynde....and I ask again, in what way are the English 'second class citizens'... ? Just repeating the claim over and over again doesn't give it any more meaning?
Curiously enough, after the 'Jock' incident, I did indeed 'go quiet' because I really wasn't being that serious, but then the other day on a Radio4 quiz program, one of the Scottish guests was referred to as Jock, and promptly took offense, I guess if the person it's directed at is offended, then it's offensive.
George
oops wait no ...... if Cromwell comes back I will be plain Mr. Braykewynde.Come the Revolution!!!!!!!!!!
Lets dig up Churchill
They assembley did'nt pay any of my girls fee's.
So i don't know where you have that from. Also this thing of free prescriptions is just a way of keeping people sweet. What other good has the Welsh assembley done? Oh yes The put all the road signs in Welsh and english.... What an utter waste of money.
The money could have been spent giving pentioners a few extra quid a week. But hey i forgot they have no control over that.
Like i said an utter waste of tax payers money
So i don't know where you have that from. Also this thing of free prescriptions is just a way of keeping people sweet. What other good has the Welsh assembley done? Oh yes The put all the road signs in Welsh and english.... What an utter waste of money.
The money could have been spent giving pentioners a few extra quid a week. But hey i forgot they have no control over that.
Like i said an utter waste of tax payers money
Yes Diane, like building a major hospital somewhere like Llandrindod Wells. It is scandalous that any trauma patients have to be taken to either Aberystwyth or Hereford because central Wales has nothing much more than a cottage hospital.
Nor mine Diane but I thought it was in the plans and they definitely get it in Scotland. One thing I am certain of is that there is far more funding for eye care in Wales (especially for diabetics) than in England I was on the committee at the time it was approved.They assembley did'nt pay any of my girls fee's.
So i don't know where you have that from. Also this thing of free prescriptions is just a way of keeping people sweet. What other good has the Welsh assembley done? Oh yes The put all the road signs in Welsh and english.... What an utter waste of money.
The money could have been spent giving pentioners a few extra quid a week. But hey i forgot they have no control over that.
Like i said an utter waste of tax payers money
LB I do not feel "that aggreived " it was you who posted the letter.
I am sure I know many more scots than you do and as far as I know all of them feel being called jocks is an insult, the same, as you correctly pointed out being called scotch is an insult.
Yes Diane most scots I speak to whether nationalist or not think having two parliaments is waste of time and money.
It is also one of the ugliest buildings I have ever seen.
Colin.
I am sure I know many more scots than you do and as far as I know all of them feel being called jocks is an insult, the same, as you correctly pointed out being called scotch is an insult.
Yes Diane most scots I speak to whether nationalist or not think having two parliaments is waste of time and money.
It is also one of the ugliest buildings I have ever seen.
Colin.
Do you think the road infrastructure is there to make a major hospital in mid wales viable? Come the winter alot of roads are dangerous going.But the cottage hospitals do what they can and very well if they're allowed to continue.Yes Diane, like building a major hospital somewhere like Llandrindod Wells. It is scandalous that any trauma patients have to be taken to either Aberystwyth or Hereford because central Wales has nothing much more than a cottage hospital.
Anthony, living in the next county to Powys I promise you the roads are far superior to what we have in Herefordshire and always have been as long as I've lived here.Yes Diane, like building a major hospital somewhere like Llandrindod Wells. It is scandalous that any trauma patients have to be taken to either Aberystwyth or Hereford because central Wales has nothing much more than a cottage hospital.
Yes but its so much warmer in Hereford! Every time I go there - not often these days i'm afraid I can take my coat off!Anthony, living in the next county to Powys I promise you the roads are far superior to what we have in Herefordshire and always have been as long as I've lived here.
Well who to believe? I asked my Scots colleagues and they said no, it wasn't. I just bring it up again with George because he said it was insulting and now he said he "wasn't being that serious", so I assume he was joking. So come on someone, tell the truth, who is lying because it is not my intention to insult anyone by calling them "jock" although it's alright for George to call us the "English b*st*rds".
oops to get it grammatically correct - it was "the b*st*rd English".Well who to believe? I asked my Scots colleagues and they said no, it wasn't. I just bring it up again with George because he said it was insulting and now he said he "wasn't being that serious", so I assume he was joking. So come on someone, tell the truth, who is lying because it is not my intention to insult anyone by calling them "jock" although it's alright for George to call us the "English b*st*rds".
Well in the original thread, I was trying to, light-heartedly, point out that you had used a slightly offensive term 'Jock' to refer to the Scots, my use of the phrase 'b^$t^rd english' was meant humourously, and I didn't actually call you that, I simply asked how you would like it (if I recall correctly you said you didn't mind at all!!!). From your reply I gathered that you took my message much more seriously than I indented, and so said no more on the matter.oops to get it grammatically correct - it was "the b*st*rd English".
As for you asking your acquaintances about it, as you said yourself, you asked soldiers, I think they are not representative of the majority of Scots, the term 'Jock' being used to refer to anyone Scottish in the army.
But if you really want to know who to believe, can I suggest a stroll down the streets of Glasgow addressing every passer by as Jock, and see how it goes down.
Anyway, since you'd rather suggest that me and Colin are lying than accept that you may be wrong, I guess any further discussion is pointless.
Hear hear, Lisa. Thatcher did for us what Hitler failed to do 40-odd years earlier. She brought this country to it's knees, and we have never recovered.Ok, LB.
It's just that every time I think of Thatcher, it makes me want to do a murder.
Lisa
O.K. NOW ALL STOP POSTING.
I've got to go and do some jobs instead of sitting here winding the Scots, ⇦ notice I said Scots, up.
I've caught two today so I'm off to fillet them :O)
I've got to go and do some jobs instead of sitting here winding the Scots, ⇦ notice I said Scots, up.
I've caught two today so I'm off to fillet them :O)
Most Scots I've met recently are ashamed to be linked to Gordon "The Gopher" Brown.
A minority voted Blair in to Government not Brown. Brown has been foisted upon us as TB cut and run.
I find myself agreeing with LMH on Mrs T in some ways, but some here must remember the mess Labour got us in to in the 60's and 70's and the many many people who were aghast at the power the Unions had over the Governement. Thatcher seemed to take us from one extreme to the one we have now where Blair and Labour Policies just walk over workers.
We may not like Maggies Way but Labour soon used it to line their own pockets.
With retired members and soon to retire members of this forum, who can forgive Brown for his pension robbing fiasco. And also the current economic Spin that has figures that we are getting richer as every way you turn you get taxed more as our services fall apart.
I've seen whilst away Newquay fire service blaming cutbacks and a fire appliance being in Devon.
Yesterday the MOD have come up with a couple of tubes that blow hot Iraq air up the trouser leg or sleeve of a shirt to try and cool armoured vehicle personel whilst the US troops have AC in theirs. The Health Service is still a mess with many failing to get treatment or drugs needed whilst Education is fed to the public as much improved due to Ofsted and League Tables.
If anyone here is daft enough to beleive that league tables and sats tests tell you how well a school and children are doing you have about as much chance as waking up and smelling the coffee in Brazil.
Labour paraded a new Navy ship a week or two back whilst our troops in Iraq are killed as they have poor equipment and resources and we are to poverty bound to provide what our forces neeed.
As the wife of a serving officer its a hard call between Mrs T's blunt ways and Labour and Blair and Browns slippery spin and razamataz.
Spin is just another name for lies and when it comes to Liars, Brown and Blair would more than take United Buscuits and McVities so who cares if Gordon the Gopher is the pious snivelling wet son of the manse from north of the border.
Ria
A minority voted Blair in to Government not Brown. Brown has been foisted upon us as TB cut and run.
I find myself agreeing with LMH on Mrs T in some ways, but some here must remember the mess Labour got us in to in the 60's and 70's and the many many people who were aghast at the power the Unions had over the Governement. Thatcher seemed to take us from one extreme to the one we have now where Blair and Labour Policies just walk over workers.
We may not like Maggies Way but Labour soon used it to line their own pockets.
With retired members and soon to retire members of this forum, who can forgive Brown for his pension robbing fiasco. And also the current economic Spin that has figures that we are getting richer as every way you turn you get taxed more as our services fall apart.
I've seen whilst away Newquay fire service blaming cutbacks and a fire appliance being in Devon.
Yesterday the MOD have come up with a couple of tubes that blow hot Iraq air up the trouser leg or sleeve of a shirt to try and cool armoured vehicle personel whilst the US troops have AC in theirs. The Health Service is still a mess with many failing to get treatment or drugs needed whilst Education is fed to the public as much improved due to Ofsted and League Tables.
If anyone here is daft enough to beleive that league tables and sats tests tell you how well a school and children are doing you have about as much chance as waking up and smelling the coffee in Brazil.
Labour paraded a new Navy ship a week or two back whilst our troops in Iraq are killed as they have poor equipment and resources and we are to poverty bound to provide what our forces neeed.
As the wife of a serving officer its a hard call between Mrs T's blunt ways and Labour and Blair and Browns slippery spin and razamataz.
Spin is just another name for lies and when it comes to Liars, Brown and Blair would more than take United Buscuits and McVities so who cares if Gordon the Gopher is the pious snivelling wet son of the manse from north of the border.
Ria
I think I will change my name to "CONFUSED.COM" after reading the thought on this particular topic. Lets be honest what happened in 1914 and 1939? We were a United Kingdom with one aim in life and that was to defeat the enemy and for the good of the UK. Why now should be become divided - what is wrong in staying an United Kingdom? I will agree with Dianne and a few others that devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is a total waste of good taxpayers money - money which would be better spent on more important issues.
Brown will never change - what good did he give us as chancellor? He raided the pension pot of the private pension schemes (probably the reason for the Daily Mirror fiasco), introduced stealth taxes by the score, cancelled marraige allowance and family tax, put our National Health, Police, Fire Service and Education into financial ruin and then made our troops wear second hand American clothing in Iraq. These are but a few of his underhanded ways. He is only interested in his own ego. The fact he is Scottish is of no consequence, it is his nature.
Enoch Powell and Arthur Scargill were both right in what they said but unfortunately the powers to be were frightened of the truth and so they were hushed up and put out to graze. And yes Thatcher was a good Prime Minister - in her first term of office she was excellent, however she went over the top and became power crazy just as Tony Blair has done towards the end of his term as PM. None of us are perfect and we have all made mistakes in our lives but we thought at the time we were doing right.
Lord B. I am inclined to think that the English are not a forgotten race within the UK, the impression I get is that the other countries within the UK are annoyed when they see the money being spent in the south east neck of the UK. This would probably stand fair for places such as the south west and north of England.
Therefore in conclusion I propose that we return to an United Kingdom and that all forms of devolution be done away with and return to a central democratic government. What point is there being an United States of Europe and then one country within that organisation being split into four. Looking at the representatives on offer there is the EU Parliament, Central Government of the UK, Assembly Government, County Borough Councils (in Wales) and Community Councils. What a total waste of money as the majority of them are bureaucratic bumbling buffoons who go with the sheep to the slaughter.
Brown will never change - what good did he give us as chancellor? He raided the pension pot of the private pension schemes (probably the reason for the Daily Mirror fiasco), introduced stealth taxes by the score, cancelled marraige allowance and family tax, put our National Health, Police, Fire Service and Education into financial ruin and then made our troops wear second hand American clothing in Iraq. These are but a few of his underhanded ways. He is only interested in his own ego. The fact he is Scottish is of no consequence, it is his nature.
Enoch Powell and Arthur Scargill were both right in what they said but unfortunately the powers to be were frightened of the truth and so they were hushed up and put out to graze. And yes Thatcher was a good Prime Minister - in her first term of office she was excellent, however she went over the top and became power crazy just as Tony Blair has done towards the end of his term as PM. None of us are perfect and we have all made mistakes in our lives but we thought at the time we were doing right.
Lord B. I am inclined to think that the English are not a forgotten race within the UK, the impression I get is that the other countries within the UK are annoyed when they see the money being spent in the south east neck of the UK. This would probably stand fair for places such as the south west and north of England.
Therefore in conclusion I propose that we return to an United Kingdom and that all forms of devolution be done away with and return to a central democratic government. What point is there being an United States of Europe and then one country within that organisation being split into four. Looking at the representatives on offer there is the EU Parliament, Central Government of the UK, Assembly Government, County Borough Councils (in Wales) and Community Councils. What a total waste of money as the majority of them are bureaucratic bumbling buffoons who go with the sheep to the slaughter.
G
Guest
As a Scot I suppose I should offer a response. I agree with a lot of what has been said, of course there are the usual scaremongering stories originating in a certain aristocrat, but i put it down to youthfull exuberance and probably too much scrumpy.
It is true that the majority of Scots dislike Brown as much as anyone. Unfortunately he represents a constituency where a 3 legged dog with one ear would get elected if it had a red rosette on the good ear. However, since the last Scottish elections there has been a swing even in his deformed constituency and his success next time round is no longer a guarantee, but I do accept probable. At the last Scottish election we managed to throw off the yoke of Labour and all the years of depression and corruption, and although it was only just, the ensuing months have shown that a repeat of the elction now would show an even bigger swing to the SNP. Not I may add because we all want independence. No, for the simple fact we want government that is following the wishes of the people. I know that after 10 years of Tony and crew, that is strange to understand, but it is true.
It is also true that a majority of Scots when asked where their Government is, will reply Holyrood, and yes, it is an ugly building, but it was designed by a drunk Spaniard. That may make those south of the border even more convinced of the wrong they feel by being controlled by a Scot, but as been mentioned in one of the previous Posts, you lot voted for the Labour numpties in even greater numbers than we did.
We now have a Government, in name as well as action, that has just
Cancelled ward closures
Removing tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges (great for all you lot coming this way)
Tightening the rape laws
Outlawing air guns
now if that is leading to independence, then I am all for it. But these are the reasons people vote SNP, not what the hotheads would have you believe. ( No, not you LB)
At the end of the day it is the Labour lot, (remember the ones you voted in 3 times) who intiated devolution. They opened Pandora's Box and I am afraid it will not be closed again.
It is true that the majority of Scots dislike Brown as much as anyone. Unfortunately he represents a constituency where a 3 legged dog with one ear would get elected if it had a red rosette on the good ear. However, since the last Scottish elections there has been a swing even in his deformed constituency and his success next time round is no longer a guarantee, but I do accept probable. At the last Scottish election we managed to throw off the yoke of Labour and all the years of depression and corruption, and although it was only just, the ensuing months have shown that a repeat of the elction now would show an even bigger swing to the SNP. Not I may add because we all want independence. No, for the simple fact we want government that is following the wishes of the people. I know that after 10 years of Tony and crew, that is strange to understand, but it is true.
It is also true that a majority of Scots when asked where their Government is, will reply Holyrood, and yes, it is an ugly building, but it was designed by a drunk Spaniard. That may make those south of the border even more convinced of the wrong they feel by being controlled by a Scot, but as been mentioned in one of the previous Posts, you lot voted for the Labour numpties in even greater numbers than we did.
We now have a Government, in name as well as action, that has just
Cancelled ward closures
Removing tolls on the Forth and Tay bridges (great for all you lot coming this way)
Tightening the rape laws
Outlawing air guns
now if that is leading to independence, then I am all for it. But these are the reasons people vote SNP, not what the hotheads would have you believe. ( No, not you LB)
At the end of the day it is the Labour lot, (remember the ones you voted in 3 times) who intiated devolution. They opened Pandora's Box and I am afraid it will not be closed again.
I should have included leaving the EU and becoming independant again. Thereby we can go back to a decent cicvilised society.I think I will change my name to "CONFUSED.COM" after reading the thought on this particular topic. Lets be honest what happened in 1914 and 1939? We were a United Kingdom with one aim in life and that was to defeat the enemy and for the good of the UK. Why now should be become divided - what is wrong in staying an United Kingdom? I will agree with Dianne and a few others that devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is a total waste of good taxpayers money - money which would be better spent on more important issues.
Brown will never change - what good did he give us as chancellor? He raided the pension pot of the private pension schemes (probably the reason for the Daily Mirror fiasco), introduced stealth taxes by the score, cancelled marraige allowance and family tax, put our National Health, Police, Fire Service and Education into financial ruin and then made our troops wear second hand American clothing in Iraq. These are but a few of his underhanded ways. He is only interested in his own ego. The fact he is Scottish is of no consequence, it is his nature.
Enoch Powell and Arthur Scargill were both right in what they said but unfortunately the powers to be were frightened of the truth and so they were hushed up and put out to graze. And yes Thatcher was a good Prime Minister - in her first term of office she was excellent, however she went over the top and became power crazy just as Tony Blair has done towards the end of his term as PM. None of us are perfect and we have all made mistakes in our lives but we thought at the time we were doing right.
Lord B. I am inclined to think that the English are not a forgotten race within the UK, the impression I get is that the other countries within the UK are annoyed when they see the money being spent in the south east neck of the UK. This would probably stand fair for places such as the south west and north of England.
Therefore in conclusion I propose that we return to an United Kingdom and that all forms of devolution be done away with and return to a central democratic government. What point is there being an United States of Europe and then one country within that organisation being split into four. Looking at the representatives on offer there is the EU Parliament, Central Government of the UK, Assembly Government, County Borough Councils (in Wales) and Community Councils. What a total waste of money as the majority of them are bureaucratic bumbling buffoons who go with the sheep to the slaughter.
Well posted SL, a post from a Scot that makes sense. To be honest with you I personally don't care if Scotland does get it's independence, whether that's the right attitude again I don't know. What I do know though is if the Scottish electorate want it they should have it, it's their destiny. Likewise for Wales. Likewise for England. I haven't an answer to Northern Ireland though, the country where thousands of Scots travel to in the Marching season waving their Unionist flags. My own opinion is that it should be a part of Eire but like Scotland, religion is a dividing factor.
What I would also like to see though is an independent England, an England without interference from other countries and that means those from across the channel who meddle in our laws. The laws of England should be decided by English M.P.s, not those from outside our borders.
Coincidentally the topic as just been on the news saying only a few want total independence. The majority want to stay in the Union but with more control in Scotland. This shouldn't be allowed to happen, you can't have half way measures.
Good luck to those who want full blown indepence from the Union, at least that will mean the scrapping of that stupid formula and we will be able to spend our own money.
What I would also like to see though is an independent England, an England without interference from other countries and that means those from across the channel who meddle in our laws. The laws of England should be decided by English M.P.s, not those from outside our borders.
Coincidentally the topic as just been on the news saying only a few want total independence. The majority want to stay in the Union but with more control in Scotland. This shouldn't be allowed to happen, you can't have half way measures.
Good luck to those who want full blown indepence from the Union, at least that will mean the scrapping of that stupid formula and we will be able to spend our own money.
G
Guest
LB, I was going to finish my own Post by saying I was off to spend all the extra money that I had received through the Barnett formula, but as I didn't, I couldn't, if you can follow that one.
I know that someone somewhere says we all did get extra, but i defy you to find one single person north of the border who can actually confirm that. So i am afraid I leave that one with the comment 'if you say so'.
As you state the majority of Scots do not want independence, we made a pretty good muck up of it the last time round, however, after many many years of getting the 'put down' from the south there has been a bit of resentment built up and again Mr T Blair let it loose, for the wrong reasons. Plus, and i come back to the same point, we like to have our Government wherw e can see it, namely in Holyrood. Now as English you are fully entitled to have the same luxury, but where do you place it? We could be heading for an Australian type of control with federal states within a governing central body, and nothing wrong with that. However, that whole policy is a complete anathema to Labour who firmly believe in central control, as per the Soviet system. Of course we could all adopt the neutral way and become European regions. Look on the bright side we might get some more money back.
However, I tend to agree with one comment made in the previous Posts that there is alot of resentment against the South east as it seems to get a disproportionate amount of resources thrown at it. During the last Devolution fiasco in the 1870's Newcastle stated it wanted to be on the Scottish side as it felt closer to the power source than from London. Makes you think.
Personally, I have no truck with Scottish MP's voting on purely English matters, but then again we have a politcal class (from all Parties) that seem to think they are there to satify their own requirements and to Hell with Joe Public.
Why, oh why did Mr Guido Faukes not suceed????
By the way, the English are my best friends, except when it comes to Footie and rugby, but that only lasts 90 minutes.
I know that someone somewhere says we all did get extra, but i defy you to find one single person north of the border who can actually confirm that. So i am afraid I leave that one with the comment 'if you say so'.
As you state the majority of Scots do not want independence, we made a pretty good muck up of it the last time round, however, after many many years of getting the 'put down' from the south there has been a bit of resentment built up and again Mr T Blair let it loose, for the wrong reasons. Plus, and i come back to the same point, we like to have our Government wherw e can see it, namely in Holyrood. Now as English you are fully entitled to have the same luxury, but where do you place it? We could be heading for an Australian type of control with federal states within a governing central body, and nothing wrong with that. However, that whole policy is a complete anathema to Labour who firmly believe in central control, as per the Soviet system. Of course we could all adopt the neutral way and become European regions. Look on the bright side we might get some more money back.
However, I tend to agree with one comment made in the previous Posts that there is alot of resentment against the South east as it seems to get a disproportionate amount of resources thrown at it. During the last Devolution fiasco in the 1870's Newcastle stated it wanted to be on the Scottish side as it felt closer to the power source than from London. Makes you think.
Personally, I have no truck with Scottish MP's voting on purely English matters, but then again we have a politcal class (from all Parties) that seem to think they are there to satify their own requirements and to Hell with Joe Public.
Why, oh why did Mr Guido Faukes not suceed????
By the way, the English are my best friends, except when it comes to Footie and rugby, but that only lasts 90 minutes.
G
Guest
Yes, I got my dates wrong, the last devolution fiasco was the 1970's, mind you it did seem a long time ago so who knows???LB, I was going to finish my own Post by saying I was off to spend all the extra money that I had received through the Barnett formula, but as I didn't, I couldn't, if you can follow that one.
I know that someone somewhere says we all did get extra, but i defy you to find one single person north of the border who can actually confirm that. So i am afraid I leave that one with the comment 'if you say so'.
As you state the majority of Scots do not want independence, we made a pretty good muck up of it the last time round, however, after many many years of getting the 'put down' from the south there has been a bit of resentment built up and again Mr T Blair let it loose, for the wrong reasons. Plus, and i come back to the same point, we like to have our Government wherw e can see it, namely in Holyrood. Now as English you are fully entitled to have the same luxury, but where do you place it? We could be heading for an Australian type of control with federal states within a governing central body, and nothing wrong with that. However, that whole policy is a complete anathema to Labour who firmly believe in central control, as per the Soviet system. Of course we could all adopt the neutral way and become European regions. Look on the bright side we might get some more money back.
However, I tend to agree with one comment made in the previous Posts that there is alot of resentment against the South east as it seems to get a disproportionate amount of resources thrown at it. During the last Devolution fiasco in the 1870's Newcastle stated it wanted to be on the Scottish side as it felt closer to the power source than from London. Makes you think.
Personally, I have no truck with Scottish MP's voting on purely English matters, but then again we have a politcal class (from all Parties) that seem to think they are there to satify their own requirements and to Hell with Joe Public.
Why, oh why did Mr Guido Faukes not suceed????
By the way, the English are my best friends, except when it comes to Footie and rugby, but that only lasts 90 minutes.
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