gordon brown

[colin(bridgend)]

So what is it going to be?

Devolution for the four countries or an United Kingdom

I will start the ball rolling and say we should go back to being an United Kingdom.

 

[Ewan_5130997]

I agree with thepoints made by Scotch lad about the positive moves the SNP led scottish parliment has made. However, I noticed yesterday on the news that they have decided to change the name from Scottish Assembly to Scottish Government. Apart from being pointless, how much will it cost to change all the signs, headed notepaper etc.? Money that could have been put to some good. I guess polititians are the same all over.

 

[ColinA]

Most politicians from any country or party are probably psycopaths. They are not there to make the world a better place, but only to further their own desires.

Colin.

 

[ColinA]

Most politicians from any country or party are probably psycopaths. They are not there to make the world a better place, but only to further their own desires.

Colin.

yes I know I cant spell

 

[Diane1]

Have just heard on the news that Gordon Brown (Aw bless him!) Has decided to bow to public pressure and bring our troops home from Iraq.

My first thought is how polically stage is this? How utterly disgusting to use our brave boys to score brownie points. And before any one tells me he has done this out of the goodness of his heart, look at the political climate.

David Cameron is now to be seen and GB needs to win an election, what better way to win an election than to get the BRITISH public on his side.

Colin A said all polititions were phycopaths, well i have to agree!

 

[Parksy]

Do I detect a note of cynysism Diane? Surely not.

Seriously though, whatever the reason for the withdrawal, at last someone is doing something right.

There is not a square foot of that God forsaken country that is worthy of the sacrifices made by our service men and women.

I wonder if pressure from the commanders in the field had something to do with this decision.

Iraq has been an unwinnable situation since our forces entered there, so perhaps now the Iraqis will just go back to fighting each other like they have always done.

 

[Val & Frank]

having been away for a couple of days I have followed the posts, and a couple of observations. The Goverment at Westminister is made up of MPs, not Assembly Members or MSPs.

So at the last count, the MPs from England had a very large majority. The Scots and Welsh, and N Irish are in a minority. Even when you add them all together they can not out vote the English.

Don't mix up the nationality of the MPs with the politics of the Party. What gets voted through at Westminster is the will of the goverment of the day, be it a Labour or Conservative Goverment. It is not what the Scots or the Welsh want for England, it's what the English want for England. That what gets voted through, it called Majority Rule.

Frank

 

[Diane1]

Ah steve, again i have not made my self clear, its not a full withdrawl,but a gradual one. In other words a small step to please the voters, A publicity stunt to appease the media, an elction stunt to help him win.

How dare he treat our Brave boys like this, dose he really think the people of this country are that stupid?

 

[Val & Frank]

Diane,

It's the only step we can take, we need to protect our phased withdrawal. The alternative would be to shoot an awful lot of Iraqi Nationals. Then we are just like Saddam the reason we went to Iraq in the first place !!!!

Mind you are troops will come home loaded down with WMD. Oh No I forgot they didn't find any !!!!

Frank

 

[MalcolmL]

I couldn't agree more about "wannabes". Devolution in Scotland is just another level of bureaucracy and extreme cost. The Scottish Executive, now Scottish Government in letterheads etc but not legally, is full of jumped up councillors who are in it for what they can get out of it - witness the housing subsidy to maintain a house in Edinburgh even though the MSP may not live terribly far from said town.

 

[Val & Frank]

Sounds to me like the

Rt Hon Gentleman Has got that 100% correct

Hear Hear waving order paper furiously

Frank

 

[Guest]

Oh dear, ignorance reigns again.

MSP's do indeed receive allowances to live in Edinburgh and yes, some have abused that generosity. Usually LibDems, the ones who are always liberal with your money. maybe that is why they were 'airbrushed' out of Government up here.

However, the allowance was based on the equivalent allowance awarded for MP's some of whom have houses within 20 miles of London, but still evidently need a 'pad' in the City??.

One has to define whether the Scottish Government is another level of beaurocracy, or should be a replacement for Westminster. That is something for the populace to decide at an election or referendum or whatever. The majority of people in Scotland feel the current Scottish Office based in London and perpetrated by the Westminster MP's is a total waste of space and cash, and they have never voted for it. But as Westminster thinks it is agood idea, we all have to pay for it. Governement in exile springs to mind.

One should always remember that Scots never asked for devolution, it was foisted on them by Blair in the hope it would kill of the SNP. Unfortunately, due to the complete and utter incompetence and corruption of both Labour and Libdems it did not work and, the Scots have had enough and voted for change. That is democracy. And also remember unlike other parts of the UK we did not erect barricades and kneecap people to get our wishes.

Possibly instead of 'whingeing'at the Scots the English should ask themselevs what they can do to change their own lives. It is in your hands to do so, if the majority can get off the settee from Big Brother, or whatever, to bother and vote. I am not getting at the English by any means, but no one else can do it for you. Voting en masse for a Party dominated by Scots does not seem too sensible to me if you wish English control.

Is this why a large number of English are up here I ask, tongue in cheek of course!

 

[Val & Frank]

SL

Voting en masse for a Party dominated by Scots does not seem too sensible to me if you wish English control.

Oh dear Ignorance reigns again !!!

" Who's leadership is dominated by Scots " not the whole of the Labour party. More English Labour MPs than Scottish ones.

Two wrongs don't make a right with regards to the Property Allowance. It is indefensible be it Edinburgh or London. Are you looking for the English to set Scotland free, because the SNP does not have a majority of support for independance, and will not have one for a long time to come. The risk is to great, a leap of faith for Eck !!!!!!!!!!!!

Frank

ps More scots live in England than English live in Scotland -)

 

[Val & Frank]

By the way and some scots live in Budapest, rather than staying at home to support the National Party.

-----)))))

Frank

 

[ColinA]

"ps More scots live in England than English live in Scotland"

The source of that information Frank? As the English outnuber the scots by about 10 to one that seems unlikely.

Colin.

 

[Val & Frank]

More scots live in England etc.

The fact is difficult to prove one way or the other. I based it on observation. We are the only English family in our road in Aberdeenshire.

In England Lancashire three scots familes lived in our road.

Frank

 

[Guest]

Yes, I am in Budapest, but it is only a 1 years assignment at the request of a friend. I actually return home next week for a couple of weeks, so maybe can get some time to man the baricades again??? Probably not tho'. Wife has othr plans.

Yes, there are many Scots outside Scotland, as indeed there are many English etc. Many of the former Colonies are well endowed with former citizens of these Isles, and sometimes I can understand fully why they left. Also many went south after the War because there was no work here and the new steel works in Corby opened up. My own parents went to London in the early 50's for similar reasons, but returned in the 60's as my father received a promotion to a job in Scotland. They never left again, except for holidays of course. I have lived abroad in many countries as part of my work for many years, so I am unsure if that makes me a full blown Scot, or just a part timer. I have also lived in England, and thoroughly enjoyed it. However, even the law states that although you can change your residency and even your citizenship, you cannot change your domicility, which in my case is Scots.

If the SNP getting control in Scotland leads to enough 'aggro' that we get rid of corrupt Labour in all the countries then I feel that it can be considered the first crack, and it is to be welcomed. I also comeback to the fact that they have support not for being anti English, but for listening and doing what the people want locally, which I suspect is all the English would want from any Government as well.

 

[Gwilym_374316238]

If you want to be brave and start a topic on Thatcherism go ahead Lisa because there are one or two Thatcherites in this forum ;O)

BTW, I too was glad to see the back of her and that whining, drawling voice of hers. She certainly taught her son how to rip a few people off and make a shilling, albeit illegally.

RIGHT ON THE BUTON

 

[Gwilym_374316238]

LB he was elected by his party, same as all party leaders.

If you feel like a second class citizen in you own country then I am sorry but that is the way most scots have felt for hundreds of years.

Colin

AND THE WELSH AS WELL, WHO PUT THIS GUY IN CHARGE ANYWAY, NOT US BUT HIS GANG OF LEGALISED CROOKS

 

[Gwilym_374316238]

Lol Diane ;O)

You are correct in your assumption that the point I was making is that with Brown as leader Labour wouldn't have won the last election.

Colin A, if you feel that aggreived now is the time to do it, vote for independence and I truly wish you all the success in the world. Maybe then, if the English can get the yoke of the E.U. off our backs England will be in charge of her own destiny and will no longer be subsidising each Scot to the tune of

 

[RobRoy]

While I have some sympathy for those who feel Scots MPs ought not to vote on what are essentially English matters, I find some of the rubbish spouted about such things as the Barnett Formula and whether or not a Scot should be Prime Minister of the U.K. boring.

Bear in mind that for the last 300 years the majority of MPs influencing Scottish matters have been English and so too have been the majority of Prime Ministers.

Pleas let's give silly and, in some cases biased, opinions a rest and concentrate on strengthening the ties of the United Kingdom and making the union something to be even more proud of. I have always considered myself British first and Scottish second.

Rob S.

 

[Val & Frank]

Rob Roy

quote While I have some sympathy for those who feel Scots MPs ought not to vote on what are essentially English matters "

I would agree with that statement.The West Lothian question should only be relevant when. The Goverment of the day forces a policy on England with the support of Scottish/Welsh MPs.

That does not have the support of it's own English majority at Westminster

Frank

 

[Gwilym_374316238]

I should have included leaving the EU and becoming independant again. Thereby we can go back to a decent cicvilised society.

Right on the button colin