JonnyG, totally disagree,Americas trouble is their own doing and im sure everyone knows why.Perhaps you could enlighten me on the investment which took place in the last 3 to 4 decades from outside parties?
After all the years of a socialist Government **** ups it seems we need Children in Need fund raising even more. At least the Lord was got rid of unlike Labour who kept and fully supported nearly every lame duck, loudmouth and fiddler they had no matter what they seemed to do along with bringing back the Dark force Lord Meddlesom
As for "those inferior countries of Spain, Greece, Eire" Quite frankly what sort of dire description is that for are 'one' Europe neighbours and friends. The last government has reduced us to 3rd world status in the eyes of very many around the world and many people who live here.
Even with Eire's current crisis a lot of people there live in far better homes and enjoy a better standard of living than very many in the UK.
JonnyG . those specs of yours must have the same Red flag tinted lenses as Brown and Blair's
glasses are supposed to right short sight not cause it
Ros
As for "those inferior countries of Spain, Greece, Eire" Quite frankly what sort of dire description is that for are 'one' Europe neighbours and friends. The last government has reduced us to 3rd world status in the eyes of very many around the world and many people who live here.
Even with Eire's current crisis a lot of people there live in far better homes and enjoy a better standard of living than very many in the UK.
JonnyG . those specs of yours must have the same Red flag tinted lenses as Brown and Blair's
Ros
Mention has been made previously regarding minimum wage. Now in theory this is a good thing, however in practice it has back fired. In South Wales we had an excellent factory run by Hoover and employing several hundred people. What has happened now is that there is basic staff employed there for maintenance and production has been transferred to the eastern block countries where the wage is equivilent of just over £3 per hour. It has been proven by Hoover that by transferring production abroad it is cheaper, including transport costs, than to manufacture in this country. This is a result of minimum wage regulations. By going abroad they are making a greater profit at the expence of this country's workers becoming unemployed.
This is not just peculier to Hoover as Dyson has also moved their manufacturing abroad like many other manufacturing industry we once had.
How many remember the "I'm Backing Britain" brigade back in the 1970s. It is a pity that we could not get that bulldog spirit going again.
This is not just peculier to Hoover as Dyson has also moved their manufacturing abroad like many other manufacturing industry we once had.
How many remember the "I'm Backing Britain" brigade back in the 1970s. It is a pity that we could not get that bulldog spirit going again.
i dont know what it is in south Wales , the wages are lower in some industries , the yards and factory units are cheaper to hire than the south east of England , and yet when i needed roof trusses for my extension they were cheaper in the south east of England and they were being transported 160 miles , the quotes i had in south wales were only travelling 10 miles at the most and were 25% more expensive , i have a caravan dealer a few miles from me ,yet i have to buy in England to get a good deal , there is a caravan dealer near Dorking in surrey selling his vans on prime real estate land , with a lot of overheads and he is still cheaper than the welsh equivalent , not that i bought my van from him
Not sure what you disagree with, our economic system and America's is similar, so not sure what you mean.seth said:
As for investment! you are joking? Well lets just stick to the easy stuff seth, your area "automobles " NISSAN, HONDA,TOYOTA,BMW . Peugeot were here for a decade plus, overseas investment in Land rover! That is all overseas investment keeping manufacturing jobs here in the UK.
Overseas computer companies have set up here, our shite banking system is still a major attractor of overseas investment, that second to none! do i need to go on?
London attracted record oversea companies last year! when the market is shrinking everywhere else, "we" the UK are still bucking the trend!
like the immortals words spoken by oddball, in kellys heroes. "why all the negativity"
OK so we are a third world country now!, so maybe you could give a list of 1st and 2nd world countries! As for the EIRE remark, now come off it, a country of 3 million and you talk about "alot" again how many 10,000 100,000! their housing market went stupid and made our own look quite sustainable in comparison.the housing market has collapsed in it major city dublin, you might want to compare Dublin to London and think again about your comments, especially as millions here in the UK are still living in an excellent standard of living! there Eire economy is shrinking drastically,whear as we are in another record year for oversea investment, and all you can come up with for a reply is "some in Eire still have a high living standard!" so do some indians, but billion dont! Rose tinted specs! Not really, its just some have the "grass is greener" mentality. LOLOmOnWeelz said:After all the years of a socialist Government **** ups it seems we need Children in Need fund raising even more. At least the Lord was got rid of unlike Labour who kept and fully supported nearly every lame duck, loudmouth and fiddler they had no matter what they seemed to do along with bringing back the Dark force Lord Meddlesom
As for "those inferior countries of Spain, Greece, Eire" Quite frankly what sort of dire description is that for are 'one' Europe neighbours and friends. The last government has reduced us to 3rd world status in the eyes of very many around the world and many people who live here.
Even with Eire's current crisis a lot of people there live in far better homes and enjoy a better standard of living than very many in the UK.
JonnyG . those specs of yours must have the same Red flag tinted lenses as Brown and Blair'sglasses are supposed to right short sight not cause it
Ros
colin bridgend said:
hi colin, a brilliant bit of reverse thinking if I can say so, while I have the greatest respect for someone who genuinly believes in what they say "as apposed to someone who says something just to be contoversial" .you have to accept there are two sides to the coin.
lets look at the basic facts the minium wage is both a curse and a blessing it all depends on how you view the statistics and the implications of not having one, it maybe interesting to know that at first the unions were just as against it as the employers but for very different reasons. in the end it really comes down to personal greed. the " im all right jack sod you syndrome" Dyson and others of that ilk are a case in point an inventor and manufacturer who took the easy option to move abroad instead of using his wealth and influance to raise the level of employment at home while at the same time improve the lives of his employees in a similar way as Titus salt and caburys did in the victorian age.
it all depends on wether you accept the prospect of an underclass or not, paying poverty level wages to increase the profit margins should unaceptable in a modern society. all the emerging nations that the world wants to cuddle up to like china. india and brazil all have this underclass where all thier wealth is built on the backs of the very poor. But do we want this here on our little island well some do the tories advocate it and so does big buisness but it does not make it right.
the phrase "peanuts and monkeys" springs to mind" well there may be plenty of monkeys in brazil but here in the uk they are a extinct species any government that seeks to introduce them back here is doomed to fail.
colin
If you've not toured all around Eire, hitch up your van and go see Jonny, For a country with so many problems a very very large proportion of the Eire population live in far better homes and conditions to the vast majority in the UK. We have American, Canadian and Australian family who have toured Europe and wider in the past five years, Eire has been the suprise to all for housing and living standards.
The UK bankers still make and have made this country a fortune and that;s why Brown cosied up to them and partly why they failed to control them.
When talking economy and motor industry you also have to lay the blame on the Unions and Labour in turn who helped destroy the Brtish motor companies. and others. Toyota and Nissan and Honda only came here when the Union strangle holds were broken.
Ros
The UK bankers still make and have made this country a fortune and that;s why Brown cosied up to them and partly why they failed to control them.
When talking economy and motor industry you also have to lay the blame on the Unions and Labour in turn who helped destroy the Brtish motor companies. and others. Toyota and Nissan and Honda only came here when the Union strangle holds were broken.
Ros
Sorry I must have missed the bit where Eire is not in financial meltdown, or maybe you missed the bit where they are in deep shite? You must have missed the bit where Irish economist have been clearly explaining why they are in deep shite and how they, as a people, have by far out stretched their income by spending money they clearly do not have!OmOnWeelz said:
You statement is based on appearances,and not how wealthy people actually are,nor how long many of those with "nice expensives houses have left, before they start getting reposssed .
Just remember the entire countrys income from taxation cannot meet its commitments, thats before several big employers jump ship, then where will your so called well off be!
As for unions, regardless of what i think, unions have members, and they decide, so if the people are stupid enough to accept union principals and so help detroy our manufacturing industry then lets be clear, unions only did it with the help of the workers! US.
And indeed talking unions, the real reason why the likes of Nissan, Honda, Toyota came to these shores , as did many other manufacturers was actually because of "union" The European union! Which going back to The Eire issues is the only reason they have florished over the last two decades in the first place, but they expanded too too quickly and wages went sky high!and they gambled way above there level.
How come nobody learns from the mistakes of the past!
PS been to Eire lovely place, bit pricey though
. the " im all right jack sod you syndrome" Dyson and others of that ilk are a case in point an inventor and manufacturer who took the easy option to move abroad instead of using his wealth and influance to raise the level of employment at home while at the same time improve the lives of his employees in a similar way as Titus salt and caburys did in the victorian age.
colin
[/quote]
Colin
Maybe a bad example to use Dyson.
They are just down the road from me and SWMBO worked for them for a while.
James Dyson had some excellent plans , and the land ,to build a high tech manufacturing plant on the outskirts of Malmesbury. The local Nimbys and the then local district council refused him planning permission even though hundreds of jobs would have been created. Production subsequently moved to Malaya whilst Malmesbury is predominantly R&D.
So teh Nimbys won the day
colin
[/quote]
Colin
Maybe a bad example to use Dyson.
They are just down the road from me and SWMBO worked for them for a while.
James Dyson had some excellent plans , and the land ,to build a high tech manufacturing plant on the outskirts of Malmesbury. The local Nimbys and the then local district council refused him planning permission even though hundreds of jobs would have been created. Production subsequently moved to Malaya whilst Malmesbury is predominantly R&D.
So teh Nimbys won the day
Colin - Yorkshire. I did say that in theory the minimum wage is a good thing but in reality it has back fired. Yes we do need industry to provide the wealth in this country and yes I agree we should not return to the "old" days of personnel working all hours for a pitance.
What is the answer - goodness only knows?
Another pont in question are the Government grants to attract industry. In South Wales we have had the likes of Rexel, Sony and LG to name but a few being given large Government handouts and subsidies to set up business here. What happens - as soon as the grants dry up they move on to another area and take the handouts once more.
We do need industry, financial investment, etc. in this country to once again put the "GREAT" back into Great Britian but when the system is being abused by industrialists then what chance does the rank and file resident of this country have?
Regarding the Surrey caravan dealer or the timber merchant being cheaper in the home counties than in South Wales the answer is obvious in that the Government is looking at that area as the main source of investment and outside that area the grants are reduced quite considerably. It is even noticable in South Wales. Fuel is far cheaper in Cardiff than Bridgend yet the delivery lorries pass through Bridgend from the refineries at Milford Haven to get to Cardiff. Yes there may be greater competition in Cardiff but to the tune of at least 6p. per litre - I doubt it.
What is the answer - goodness only knows?
Another pont in question are the Government grants to attract industry. In South Wales we have had the likes of Rexel, Sony and LG to name but a few being given large Government handouts and subsidies to set up business here. What happens - as soon as the grants dry up they move on to another area and take the handouts once more.
We do need industry, financial investment, etc. in this country to once again put the "GREAT" back into Great Britian but when the system is being abused by industrialists then what chance does the rank and file resident of this country have?
Regarding the Surrey caravan dealer or the timber merchant being cheaper in the home counties than in South Wales the answer is obvious in that the Government is looking at that area as the main source of investment and outside that area the grants are reduced quite considerably. It is even noticable in South Wales. Fuel is far cheaper in Cardiff than Bridgend yet the delivery lorries pass through Bridgend from the refineries at Milford Haven to get to Cardiff. Yes there may be greater competition in Cardiff but to the tune of at least 6p. per litre - I doubt it.
hi DD.
my point about dyson was a valid one because as you say the local nimby,s won so the easy option of taking his ball home "literaly" was the order of the day, if he had moved the whole operation to the devistated industrial heartlands he would have had no problem getting the planning and probably some of the initial setup costs like nissan did in sunderland or quinn glass in ireland, this is what Salt and Cadburys did all those years ago.
I also get sick and tired of hearing the old it was the "unions fault guv honest" chestnut the reason british manufacture went in to decline was because of poor managment and goverment interferance. appointing a "no to everything" type of bully boy top managers in key positions in companies they knew nothing about.
dont forget this without the unions we would still have kids of 9 working in the mines " yes we probably would still have mines" and have 90% of working people living in abject poverty, every freedom we take for granted was hard won one dispute at a time does anyone acctually believe that bosses care about the employees that work for them "no chance" just the balance sheet and the accumilation of their personal wealth and benefits as I said before im allright jack
my point about dyson was a valid one because as you say the local nimby,s won so the easy option of taking his ball home "literaly" was the order of the day, if he had moved the whole operation to the devistated industrial heartlands he would have had no problem getting the planning and probably some of the initial setup costs like nissan did in sunderland or quinn glass in ireland, this is what Salt and Cadburys did all those years ago.
I also get sick and tired of hearing the old it was the "unions fault guv honest" chestnut the reason british manufacture went in to decline was because of poor managment and goverment interferance. appointing a "no to everything" type of bully boy top managers in key positions in companies they knew nothing about.
dont forget this without the unions we would still have kids of 9 working in the mines " yes we probably would still have mines" and have 90% of working people living in abject poverty, every freedom we take for granted was hard won one dispute at a time does anyone acctually believe that bosses care about the employees that work for them "no chance" just the balance sheet and the accumilation of their personal wealth and benefits as I said before im allright jack
Quoting from the start of my second sentence above "For a country with so many problems".
There is no denying that the Irish Republic has massive problems and my posts do not deny or question that.
Ros
There is no denying that the Irish Republic has massive problems and my posts do not deny or question that.
Ros
Colin Yorkshire
All good valid points. An ex Tory MP did examine options outside of Malmesbury with Dyson. In the end they concluded, sadly, that the manufacturing side had to go East. The rest is history.
My MIL worked at the Austin, Longbridge and saw first hand the devastation Red Robbo caused. However whilst he and his Union took the brunt of the blame the likes of Lord Stokes and Sir Michael Edwards will go down in history as the true villains of the piece.
I spent a lot of time working in Dublin a few years ago and cannot agree the standard of living was any better than the UK. In fact it wasn't for me. Every time I saw a new road , shopping centre or airport runway or building there was a smart stainless steel plaque boasting "paid for with EU Grant"
I've never seen one of those in England
All good valid points. An ex Tory MP did examine options outside of Malmesbury with Dyson. In the end they concluded, sadly, that the manufacturing side had to go East. The rest is history.
My MIL worked at the Austin, Longbridge and saw first hand the devastation Red Robbo caused. However whilst he and his Union took the brunt of the blame the likes of Lord Stokes and Sir Michael Edwards will go down in history as the true villains of the piece.
I spent a lot of time working in Dublin a few years ago and cannot agree the standard of living was any better than the UK. In fact it wasn't for me. Every time I saw a new road , shopping centre or airport runway or building there was a smart stainless steel plaque boasting "paid for with EU Grant"
I've never seen one of those in England
Hey ya ol' tyke, it doesn't matter how you try to justify the unions you are old enough to know that they were then infiltrated by communists as they are now.
As you know, I grew up in a mining village where my father, brother, uncles, BIL and cousins were miners. That doesn't mean that I have to 'remember my roots' as I was constantly told when younger at election time. Although I did vote Labour I could also see that by the 70s and into the 80s the unions were infiltrated by every political crackpot class. In the 80s I was a shop steward of COHSE and later NUPE but that doesn't mean that I believed that unionism was whiter than white because it wasn't. Even then I opted out of the political levy because I didn't want my money to be donated to support some Trotskyites election campaign.
Remember the likes of Red Robbo, Tariq Ali, Tony Benn, Scargill, Peter Tatchell, Derek Hatton, George Galloway etc. even a now milder Livingstone. All of them of not sound mind and all in public life as political commentators, politicians, union leaders or town hall meglomaniacs.
I can still see Derek Robinson, stood on some dais, arms outstretched like Trotsky, lecturing the masses.
The only reason that unions pay monies into the Labour political fund is because they know if they stood themselves as communists they had no chance of selection. The best way therefore is to infiltrate Labour, wear their cloak and sing and fly 'the red flag', albeit without the hammer and sickle.
I'm also not gullible enough to believe that the present government are the answer to our problems because like all politicians, they have already reneagued on a few of their manifesto promises but to leave the last government in power would have been crass madness. Labour still haven't learned any lessons though. They have elected a communist as their leader. I accept that most of Red Ed's Labour colleagues didn't want him but thanks to the union vote that is who they got. Lessons to be learnt there, the unions still have political muscle despite them being a spent force compared to the 70s
Even Militant Tendency are still alive and kicking
As you know, I grew up in a mining village where my father, brother, uncles, BIL and cousins were miners. That doesn't mean that I have to 'remember my roots' as I was constantly told when younger at election time. Although I did vote Labour I could also see that by the 70s and into the 80s the unions were infiltrated by every political crackpot class. In the 80s I was a shop steward of COHSE and later NUPE but that doesn't mean that I believed that unionism was whiter than white because it wasn't. Even then I opted out of the political levy because I didn't want my money to be donated to support some Trotskyites election campaign.
Remember the likes of Red Robbo, Tariq Ali, Tony Benn, Scargill, Peter Tatchell, Derek Hatton, George Galloway etc. even a now milder Livingstone. All of them of not sound mind and all in public life as political commentators, politicians, union leaders or town hall meglomaniacs.
I can still see Derek Robinson, stood on some dais, arms outstretched like Trotsky, lecturing the masses.
The only reason that unions pay monies into the Labour political fund is because they know if they stood themselves as communists they had no chance of selection. The best way therefore is to infiltrate Labour, wear their cloak and sing and fly 'the red flag', albeit without the hammer and sickle.
I'm also not gullible enough to believe that the present government are the answer to our problems because like all politicians, they have already reneagued on a few of their manifesto promises but to leave the last government in power would have been crass madness. Labour still haven't learned any lessons though. They have elected a communist as their leader. I accept that most of Red Ed's Labour colleagues didn't want him but thanks to the union vote that is who they got. Lessons to be learnt there, the unions still have political muscle despite them being a spent force compared to the 70s
Dustydog said:
Even if Dyson had kept the factory open and then opened another in Poland the writing would be on the wall because eventually they would close down the UK factory.
To prove my point would the ol' tyke choose a UK Dyson Whirlwind at £170
or would he choose the Polish Dyski Whirlski at £89.
"A few years ago" compared to recent years is very different. This year we went to the republic with more Aussie "rellies", just about everywhere we went they were just in awe of the houses and what the Irish seemed happy to pay for things. Australia is not cheap but the Irish seemed to spend plenty in bars and restaurants an Dublin was really expensive but absolutely buzzing despite their problems.
You're right about the EU signs Dusty, they seem to be everywhere.
Ros
You're right about the EU signs Dusty, they seem to be everywhere.
Ros
as usual LB you have not hit the nail on the head but missed it completly and damaged the wood in the process.as an expert in the art of the wind up you must understand by now that even the most exagerated statements while very amusing are well wide of the mark.
your background is very similar to mine exept while you avoided going down the black hole some of us did not. while the working conditions were much better and the benifits greater than the days of my grandfather it was still a dangerious job that would probably kill you before retirement if not soon after I am 62 now and the oldest living member of a family that goes back 4 generations in mining it stopped with me in 1984 when the pit shut. .before that I at least for a time reaped the rewards that the union had won for us and will never forget the stories of the bad old days before I was born.
it is convienient to single out a couple of extreem individuals to tar the whole union movement with just the same as it would be easy to point the finger at the far right neo nationalists that have been trying to bring back slavery for the last 200 years. the fact of the matter is without the unions things would never have changed all the benifits we take for granted were born out of union solidarity even the ones you were granted and now dismiss as communist.
so the labour party is linked to the unions so what?/ of course it is the labour party was born out of the unions funds and maintained by them that was why thatcher was so keen to bankrupt the unions at any cost and boy what a cost. .the country as a whole will probably never recover.
my only regret about the last 20 years has been that after the landslide victory in 97 new labour had the opportuity to bestow on the tories the same type of legistlation to stop big business funding them but in the spirit of new politics refused to do it. we now reap the rewards of that folly by being subjected to the massive cuts proposed by the very same tories now.back in power.with the aid of the bleeding heart liberal muppets they have brought along for a very bumpy ride.
oh nearly forgot the answer to your question is neither why pay so much for a device when a sweeping brush and shovel will do the same job for less than £3.
your background is very similar to mine exept while you avoided going down the black hole some of us did not. while the working conditions were much better and the benifits greater than the days of my grandfather it was still a dangerious job that would probably kill you before retirement if not soon after I am 62 now and the oldest living member of a family that goes back 4 generations in mining it stopped with me in 1984 when the pit shut. .before that I at least for a time reaped the rewards that the union had won for us and will never forget the stories of the bad old days before I was born.
it is convienient to single out a couple of extreem individuals to tar the whole union movement with just the same as it would be easy to point the finger at the far right neo nationalists that have been trying to bring back slavery for the last 200 years. the fact of the matter is without the unions things would never have changed all the benifits we take for granted were born out of union solidarity even the ones you were granted and now dismiss as communist.
so the labour party is linked to the unions so what?/ of course it is the labour party was born out of the unions funds and maintained by them that was why thatcher was so keen to bankrupt the unions at any cost and boy what a cost. .the country as a whole will probably never recover.
my only regret about the last 20 years has been that after the landslide victory in 97 new labour had the opportuity to bestow on the tories the same type of legistlation to stop big business funding them but in the spirit of new politics refused to do it. we now reap the rewards of that folly by being subjected to the massive cuts proposed by the very same tories now.back in power.with the aid of the bleeding heart liberal muppets they have brought along for a very bumpy ride.
oh nearly forgot the answer to your question is neither why pay so much for a device when a sweeping brush and shovel will do the same job for less than £3.
colin-yorkshire said:
About 3 years ago you were 1 year younger than me but now I see you're 3 years younger. How do you manage this ya ol' tyke.
Do you not have clocks up thar in Yorkshire or is that time just goes slower????
BTW I'm glad to see you're saving money on a Dyson but maybe you're not saving as much as you think. Just think how much the driver of the broom has cost you since you married her
Power to the people bro
Lord Braykewynde said:colin-yorkshire said:
About 3 years ago you were 1 year younger than me but now I see you're 3 years younger. How do you manage this ya ol' tyke.
Do you not have clocks up thar in Yorkshire or is that time just goes slower????
BTW I'm glad to see you're saving money on a Dyson but maybe you're not saving as much as you think. Just think how much the driver of the broom has cost you since you married her
Power to the people bro
now come on elbee you know maths is not my stong point but seeing as how I was born or was that delivered by the stork in 1948 ish I reckon I'm about 62. give or take a couple of years but that depends how I feel in a morning.
this morning I was about 82. but yesterday I was 26.and probably the reason I was 82 this morning. god I miss those morning dog walks. sniff,
as for the broom pusher thats down to me I'm afraid seeing how her indoors is disabled. come to think of it.
"how much was that polish dyson"
My hot tipple is Twinings green tea.
Twinings are well known as an Andover Hampshire employer but I saw on a Twinings Facebook comment that they are moving production to Poland. Some people were calling for a boycot of Twinings
Twinings are well known as an Andover Hampshire employer but I saw on a Twinings Facebook comment that they are moving production to Poland. Some people were calling for a boycot of Twinings
I watched Dispatches (about EU wasting money) last Monday night and they mentioned that Twinings were moving some of their production to Poland. The EU had made money available for the re-generation of part of the north east, but rather than use it as intended it is going to be used for setting up a new factory in Poland. They interviewed a lady from the Twinings factory, she is currently training Polish workers in the art of tea manufacture, ready for production moving in the new year leaving the UK workers without jobs. They have another factory somewhere down south which will remain for the time being.
I was so angry after I watched the programme, we thought our government expenses scandal was bad, it's nothing compared to the waste and corruption that happens in Brussels. The amount of money the MEP's can claim because the rules allow them to is outrageous. I wish we could have a vote: In or Out, I know what I'd choose, we need to save some money!
I was so angry after I watched the programme, we thought our government expenses scandal was bad, it's nothing compared to the waste and corruption that happens in Brussels. The amount of money the MEP's can claim because the rules allow them to is outrageous. I wish we could have a vote: In or Out, I know what I'd choose, we need to save some money!
Julie T said:
Here! here!
Countries like Switzerland and Norway seem to do ok outside and the problem of having a referendum is because the politicians are scared. They know which way the vote would go. The sad part is Cameron is turning out to be just as wet as his bed partners but then again he has an excuse. He's just another politician who wouldn't know how to keep a promises.
I'm pretty sure that if you look at Twining's market coverage and compare it to the sources of their supplies, production in Poland is not very eco friendly. It might be cheaper on the balance sheet, but how much road haulage is involved compared to production here. We're told we have to be considerate with exhaust output and car use and then the EU promotes trucks running all over Europe.
You can bring Yoghurt culture from Greece and produce the same yoghurt here, but oh no, if you want GREEK yoghurt it gets trucked about a thousand miles at 6 or 7 miles to the gallon. and then some green veggie tree hugger twink has a sit down protests against 4x4 use and lunches on Yoghurt and salad that's been driven half way around the world and dips their wholemeal green bread in humus that arrived in a truck that followed the yoghurt one from Greece
You can bring Yoghurt culture from Greece and produce the same yoghurt here, but oh no, if you want GREEK yoghurt it gets trucked about a thousand miles at 6 or 7 miles to the gallon. and then some green veggie tree hugger twink has a sit down protests against 4x4 use and lunches on Yoghurt and salad that's been driven half way around the world and dips their wholemeal green bread in humus that arrived in a truck that followed the yoghurt one from Greece
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