Government Web Drivers Licence Categories'

[ProfJohnL]

I note that on the 5 August this year the the Governmanet web site showing driving licec catgories was revised. It now reads

"Cars
Category B

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).

You can also tow heavier trailers if the total weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t more than 3,500kg.

You can drive motor tricycles with a power output higher than 15kW if you are over 21 years old.

Physically disabled drivers with provisional category B entitlement will also have provisional entitlement to ride category A1 or A motor tricycles.

Able-bodied drivers can no longer ride motor tricycles with a provisional category B licence.

Category B auto

You can drive a category B vehicle - but only an automatic one.

Category B+E

You can drive a category B vehicle with a MAM of 3,500 kg with a trailer with a MAM of up to 750kg.

You can also tow a trailer with a MAM greater than 750kg as long as the combined weight of the category B vehicle and trailer doesn’t exceed a MAM of 3,500kg."

Please remember is is the web site and not legislative document . It has been edited very badly for inclusion in the Government Portal.

It continues to suggest that drivers with only Cat B can drive an outfit provided it weighs less than 3500kg, when the underlying legislation specifically refers to the combined MAM

EVvn worse is the weight restriction in cat B+E which now states "You can also tow a trailer with a MAM greater than 750kg as long as the combined weight of the category B vehicle and trailer doesn’t exceed a MAM of 3,500kg" This is no different to cat B!

I have again made representations to the web master through the reporting system, and I await their response. (I'm not holding my breath)

 

[paws]

Good catch!
I have not read the item concerned, but from what you say it does look as though the person who wrote the text made a bit of a blunder. ( my polite way of saying " a complete dog's breakfast of it"

Not only that but it does call into question the level, frequency and efficiency of the supervision being exercised, by the department(s) concerned.

In most larger organisations material for publication has to be "signed off" by an authorised person and I would have thought this would have applied to the website concerned.

Obviously this one fell through the net, no doubt somewhere someone is writing the familiar tired old phrases like:

"in this particular circumstance it appears that the usual high standards of accuracy we demand has not been achieved..... you can be assured however that steps are being taken...( etc)
...and to ensure that accuracy of important information is always first class"

Doubtless there will also be something to the effect that......."xyz is paramount to us...(etc)"

That is, of course, if anyone can be bothered.... :blink:
Regards to all and of course
Happy Caravanning
paws

 

[Woodentop]

I don't think the OP read far enough down the list.

Under the heading January 1997 to 14th October 2012 Cat B is as quoted, but Cat B+E states Cat B vehicles with trailer where combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3500Kg.

Typical Civil Service-speak.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I don't think the OP read far enough down the list.

Under the heading January 1997 to 14th October 2012 Cat B is as quoted, but Cat B+E states Cat B vehicles with trailer where combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3500Kg.

Typical Civil Service-speak.

I was referring to the following page
https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

The element you write does not exist on the page I have quoted which was last updated 5th August 2015, and is the page you are directed to, if you search 'driving licence categories'

There is a link to compare driving licences, but that only gives details of Licences issued before 14 October 2012. It does not give details of the current license issues, but infers they are different , and in the absence of details on that page one has to assume the page I have pointed to represents the current categories.

Lo and behold, I have at lest received an acknowledgement from the site, and a message that my query has been passed to the department that provided the page.

 

[Woodentop]

I don't think the OP read far enough down the list.

Under the heading January 1997 to 14th October 2012 Cat B is as quoted, but Cat B+E states Cat B vehicles with trailer where combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3500Kg.

Typical Civil Service-speak.

I was referring to the following page
https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

The element you write does not exist on the page I have quoted which was last updated 5th August 2015, and is the page you are directed to, if you search 'driving licence categories'

There is a link to compare driving licences, but that only gives details of Licences issued before 14 October 2012. It does not give details of the current license issues, but infers they are different , and in the absence of details on that page one has to assume the page I have pointed to represents the current categories.

Lo and behold, I have at lest received an acknowledgement from the site, and a message that my query has been passed to the department that provided the page.

I would point you to this one:
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car
There is nothing to imply that the document dated August is actually any different from this one dated June. I suspect the August one is a typo or has a section missing.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Woodentop,

The variety of answers we seem to get depending on how your try to access this weights information simply reiterates how unreliable these government pages are.

The problem is for someone who is new to towing, who genuinely asks the internet to find the information , they can be presented with fundamentally different information about the same subject depending on the browsing route they have taken. The only certainty you can have is that at least one (or more, or even all) of them are wrong, and in fact having reviewed the underlying legislative document, I can tell you that non of the Cat B information on the Gov't website is completely accurate, and I suspect that there are similar errors in some of the other category descriptions.

For caravanners, the critical errors are the references to 3500kg weight. Using that noun implies its an actual measured weight, where as the legislation refers specifically to MAM which is a limit.

The use of weight limits as part of the category boundaries is a common theme running through all license categories, Its quick and easy for enforcement officers to check the vehicles data plates to verify if a driver is licenced to drive any vehicle. If it relied on measured weights, then road side checks would become a major headache to manage, and incredibly frustrating for the for drivers who are in fact legal.

 

[Woodentop]

I would entirely agree. What is more if it relied upon actual rather than plated weights where would we, the users, get the vehicle weighed - theoretically every time it is used? (By vehicle I mean caravan.) There used to be weighbridges all over the place - most council highways depots used to have them to weigh trucks in and out - but with the advent of in-vehicle weighing most of those weighbridges have been shut down.

I am in Harrogate and the only place that I know of is a self-weigh on the southbound access to the Humber Bridge - and I'm not sure even that is still available!

Conversely, with caravan manufacturers doing their best to make their products 'look' light, again where can I go to make sure I'm not overloaded before I get pulled by VOSA? (Agreed legally it is up to me to make sure, but how?) Surely there is something wrong if I can get the plated weight of my Peg 462 increased by 94Kg just by paying £60 for a new label?

 

[ProfJohnL]

................................
Conversely, with caravan manufacturers doing their best to make their products 'look' light, again where can I go to make sure I'm not overloaded before I get pulled by VOSA? (Agreed legally it is up to me to make sure, but how?) Surely there is something wrong if I can get the plated weight of my Peg 462 increased by 94Kg just by paying £60 for a new label?

Hi again,
The issue of changing the 'plated' weight is not really relevant to this thread, but what you say is not universally the case. Only some caravan can have their plates changed, it depends on how much of the chassis's capacity has been used, and the willingness of the manufacture to actually do it.

But the underlying point you make how to know what weight you are loaded to still remains. There are some who attempt to weigh every item they put in their caravan, and then add it all up with the caravans MIRO. This is certainly much better than guessing, but even this is prone to inaccuracy, due to the inherent error of a lot of small weights, each with their own errors being compounded.

The only sure way is to weigh the caravan when its loaded and ready to roll.