have we lost our freedom all together?

[Parksy]

Hi John

Most of the rapidly decreasing number of public houses in and around Tipton will usually just charge between 20 - 30p for cordial, they get the soda water f.o.c. so they don't charge my mates wife for it.

It's not a drink that is widely asked for, my guess is that if it suddenly became very popular the price would increase.

On average a pint of Banks's mild is

 

[602]

Hi

AT LEAST 50% of accidents are caused by sober drivers.

I have half of lager and lime with my pub meal, then go onto coke. I get charged for the lime in addition to being charged for the lager that is left out to make room for the lime.

One day, EVERY car passing thru Glynneath was being stopped.

"Are you carrying your driving licence?"

"I wouldn't be so stupid!"

"Go into the van over there".

I was duly processed, but as I got back to my car, the young Plod (Rookie?) cautioned me. Miranda style. My wife wanted to know why. "Your husband commited an offence by not carrying his driving licence" Oh dear, redrag/bull time! She started......

"I attend ASPO meetings every month, and that is a subject being discussed. They want it to be a requirement that drivers must carry their licence ..... BUT IT ISN'T LAW YET!" ( Note that Plod had not actually asked me to produce my licence ) Whatever, Young Plod carried it off quite well, I hope he goes far.

But two comments. Plod cautioned me AFTER it was all done and dusted. And when I took my licence to the police station, the civilian disappeared into the back office with it ..... I asume she examined it fully .... is that allowed.

Also, during the roadside procedings, my wife mentioned that she wanted to visit the loo. "You should have planned your journey better!" Yeah, we did. Ten miles, twenty minutes estimate. But adding another twenty minutes for police procedures changes things. She is taking water tablets.

But we parted amicably.

Oh yes, my wife, travelling alone on the M4, nearing midnight, was stopped by a police car. Plod told her to get out of her car. She asked for identification. Plod pointed at his car, said he could call up another car if she wanted. My wife chose to stay in her car, and talk thru the 2" gap at the top of her window. After lots of questions, but no request for documents, Plod told her he had clocked her at 104mph, told her not to do it again, and let her go ...... and disappeared. He just wasn't there any more. ????

602

 

[xtrailman]

602

plod obviously thought you wife was not worth the effort?

had she been doing over 100mph, then she should have lost her license.

I supposed she was rushing for the toilet?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

In the course of my job I only ever came across one bumptious arrogant ***wipe of a copper.

When attending an accident no one was injured and didn't require A&E. One of the people involved I knew because her and her hubby worked at the hospital so I offered to take her home, just a few hundred yards. As I closed the rear doors this 'non person' asked if I was taking her to Casualty. I explained what was happening but this 'thing' didn't talk, he shouted, probably because he knew he was centre stage with an audience. "No your not" he said, "you are taking her to Casualty". I was doing my best to stay calm and reasonable but he was having none of it. "Look", he said, "I'm ordering you to take her to Casualty, I'm the police officer here and I'm in charge of the scene".

To this day I still fume and can never understand how I stayed calm and never smacked the dip****. Probably because I'd get the sack for assault I suppose. What made it worse I knew I was right but wasn't prepared to raise my voice or cause a scene in front of a lot of people.

I made a mental note of his number and apologised to Mandy what was happening but I intended taking it further.

Lo and behold I attended another accident later the same week, again with no casualties, and guess what, dip**** was in attendance also. When it quietened down I asked him if I could have a word. I referred him to a few nights earlier and told him next time to get his facts right else I would be taking it further. I informed him that he was correct in the fact he was in charge of the scene but where he was wrong was he had no juristiction over the patients or myself whilst carrying out my duties, the casualties were our responsibility, even if deceased. I can still see the grin on his face as he walked away without saying a word.

Like all jobs, the police have their bad apples as we did in the Ambulance Service. Usually they get found out that they are crap at dealing with the public and either get sacked due to their failings or promoted to become officers as they did in the Ambulance Service. That jerk is probably a Chief Superintendant in West Mercia now :O)

After all these years it still sticks in my craw that I obeyed an order, even my own boss's knew better than to 'order' me to do something ... heh! heh! heh!

Going on from that my boss told me one day that I'd have to lose some days leave because they couldn't get everyones in by the end of the finacial year and that we weren't entitled to it anyway, it was just a concession.

I asked him how long he'd known me. "About ten years " he said. I told him then in that case he knows I'm not going to lose any because for every day I lose I will take two days sick. I got my leave days.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Hi

AT LEAST 50% of accidents are caused by sober drivers.

I have half of lager and lime with my pub meal, then go onto coke. I get charged for the lime in addition to being charged for the lager that is left out to make room for the lime.

One day, EVERY car passing thru Glynneath was being stopped.

"Are you carrying your driving licence?"

"I wouldn't be so stupid!"

"Go into the van over there".

I was duly processed, but as I got back to my car, the young Plod (Rookie?) cautioned me. Miranda style. My wife wanted to know why. "Your husband commited an offence by not carrying his driving licence" Oh dear, redrag/bull time! She started......

"I attend ASPO meetings every month, and that is a subject being discussed. They want it to be a requirement that drivers must carry their licence ..... BUT IT ISN'T LAW YET!" ( Note that Plod had not actually asked me to produce my licence ) Whatever, Young Plod carried it off quite well, I hope he goes far.

But two comments. Plod cautioned me AFTER it was all done and dusted. And when I took my licence to the police station, the civilian disappeared into the back office with it ..... I asume she examined it fully .... is that allowed.

Also, during the roadside procedings, my wife mentioned that she wanted to visit the loo. "You should have planned your journey better!" Yeah, we did. Ten miles, twenty minutes estimate. But adding another twenty minutes for police procedures changes things. She is taking water tablets.

But we parted amicably.

Oh yes, my wife, travelling alone on the M4, nearing midnight, was stopped by a police car. Plod told her to get out of her car. She asked for identification. Plod pointed at his car, said he could call up another car if she wanted. My wife chose to stay in her car, and talk thru the 2" gap at the top of her window. After lots of questions, but no request for documents, Plod told her he had clocked her at 104mph, told her not to do it again, and let her go ...... and disappeared. He just wasn't there any more. ????

602

Quote 602... "AT LEAST 50% of accidents are caused by sober drivers".

I don't know the figures but assuming you are right then wouldn't it be nice to reduce the accident rate by catching the other 50% of drunk drivers?

 

[DarrylFlynn]

Well LB you have to speak as you find.

In my case during my time on Traffic and in particular the Accident Investigation unit i have always felt a special bond with Ambulance Crew, Paramedics and Hospital staff.

Never had any problems whatsoever with any of them but it's all down to how you speak to people.

Like you said Good and Bad in every walk of life.

Darryl

 

[LMH]

Plus LB can be a grumpy old git.

(Joke, joke, don't ban me).

Lisa

 

[Dustydog]

LB said

"I told him then in that case he knows I'm not going to lose any because for every day I lose I will take two days sick. I got my leave days."

If that had been a certain airlines cabin staff another strike would have happened!

Cheers

Dustydog

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Plus LB can be a grumpy old git.

(Joke, joke, don't ban me).

Lisa

Yes she did Parksy ..... gag her.

Then kick her a$$ from Clifton to Colwick.

 

[Parksy]

Yes she did Parksy ..... gag her.

Then kick her a$$ from Clifton to Colwick.

She might kick me back Lord B :0(

 

[LMH]

Plus LB can be a grumpy old git.

(Joke, joke, don't ban me).

Lisa

Hey

It's funny you should mention Clifton. Each year lots of the houses go totally over the top with the external Christmas decorations.

I decided to drive up there last night to get some pics. I couldn't believe it, there must definately be a credit crunch on. There was only about half a dozen houses with the fronts of the houses plastered in lights etc.

I was quite disappointed.

p.s. It was damn cold and snowing and I had to take my little Gaylord with me for protection because, sadly, Clifton is a crime hotspot.

 

[ShadySadie]

On Thursday we went for Christmas lunch with friends from a local business as it was their office managers last day.

One of the men who is a slightly built and about five foot three drank 3.5 pints of Guinness another drank 5.5 pints of Stella and two of the women drank at least 3 very generous sized glassses of wine. We all left at about three and they walked back to their offices before driving home at four I've now learnt.

It's no wonder the police are doing random checks!

Three large glasses of wine must be at least two thirds of a bottle and it would take a few hours for somebody drinking that ammount to be fit to drive. Driving an hour or two after three plus pints of beer, the same.

 

[Surfer]

In the country where I lived in the eighties and nineties they used to do random stop & searches most weekends and occasionaly during the week. The difference was that they cordoned off a whole town and there was no escape down back roads etc. You never knew when it was going to happen.

Unfortunately after 6pm there were no taxis, busses or trains to take you home so you had to drive or walk many miles. Problem was if you walked invariably you were found dead the next day. Over here you don't really have any excuse!

 

[machighlander]

gosh Ian, ye stayed in wales ?.

 

[forestgump]

i think this is not just about drink but chris is on about genral random stop checks and the whole fredom thing

 

[SteveW77]

Everybody keeps going on about people breaking the law by drink driving and saying that random breath test are the way to stop them. I agree,all I ask is that the law is changed to allow the police to do this.As far as I know, and I am ready to be corrected, the law states. Police can currently carry out a breath test only if a motorist has been driving erratically, been involved in an accident or committed another offence while driving, such as having a faulty tail light or speeding. Until they change the law on this, then random breath checks are as illegal as drinking and driving.

It can never be acceptable for a police force to break the law.

If the law doesn't work then change it, not break it.

Steve W

 

[Chris_374413356]

Thanks Dean, yes this was the idea of my thread, simply are our rights are being erroded and where will it end?

Yes, I thought you had to commit a moving traffic offence to be breathalysed or at least have reasonable doubt that the driver was over the limit.

What would have happened in this case if my wife refused to take it.

 

[Entwood]

I think you will find that the law was changed back in January 2009

I can't find the actual legislation in Hansard at the moment .. but the matter waas well covered in the press.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23433347-random-breath-tests-in-shake-up-of-drink-drive-law.do
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/3222054/Drivers-to-be-given-random-breath-tests.html
Even if it wasn't changed .. the old law was simple .. the police can STOP you at any time, no reason is needed. If they then suspect you may have been drinking .. by way of smell, speech or "attutude" .. ie .. anything .. they can then ask for a breath test.

 

[Entwood]

Further to my last ....

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1990/mar/21/breath-tests
I quote "It is lawful for a police officer in uniform acting in the execution of his duty to require the driver of any vehicle on a road to stop. A police officer who stops a vehicle on a road with the purpose of investigating whether its driver has alcohol in his body is acting in the execution of his duty. It is accordingly lawful for a police officer in uniform to stop vehicles at random for that purpose, provided there is no malpractice such as oppression or capricious conduct on the part of the officer. It is lawful for a police officer in uniform to require a driver who has been stopped in such circumstances to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test, provided that the officer has reasonable cause to suspect that the driver has alcohol in his body."

Apparently, from another debate, the fact that it is Christmas and the season for office parties, is enough to give "reasonable cause to suspect that the driver has alcohol in his body."

Sorry to be so long-winded .. but that is Hansard ...

In summary .. yes ... you can be stopped.... anytime .. it is not "random" .. it is targeted as you "may have been drinking"

HTH

 

[LMH]

Chris, I'm sorry to put this bluntly. I rarely watch the tv these days, but surely you and your wife must have heard about the annual drink driving campaigns. Basically, it involves stopping people at random and breath testing them.

You seriously have never head of them, even though they've been in operation for many many years?

I'm no expert but if your wife refused to take a breath test, I would imagine she would be taken down to the station and dealt with there.

Why would she refuse to take a breath test anyway?

Lisa

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I would think if she refused she would be arrested and taken to the station where they would try and take a blood sample by the police surgeon. If she still refused she might as well have been drunk.

 

[SteveW77]

Thanks for the information Nigel.

I said I was ready to be corrected and you have done so. SO now we know,the use of random breath tests have the full force of the law behind them and woe betide anyone who refuses to take one or for that matter fails one.

Steve W

 

[Chris_374413356]

Just found this on the www, dated September 2009.

The European Union is now inclined to believe that random breath testing should be conducted by police authorities in all member states to eliminate the dangerous habit of drunk drivers. The plan involves posting of police officers in different roads and stations at various times, and get a driver every after a hundred cars that pass the road to undergo a breathalyser test.

Once the driver fails the test, he would then be subject for legal prosecution. However, in some European countries like the UK, they have laws which state that testing could be performed only on drivers who are found driving in a careless and erratic manner that raise doubts on police officers. Therefore, it is not firm if random breath testing can be legally implemented in these countries.

I think the jury is still out regarding this legality, or do you know better??

 

[Parksy]

The roadside breathalyser is carried out to establish whether a driver has been drinking and is likely to fail the breath test which is carried out at a police station.

In the event of a person in charge of a motor vehicle failing the roadside breath test they would be placed under arrest but the real breath test to obtain evidence of blood /alcohol levels which would lead to a charge is the one which provides the lowest reading of the two tests at the police station if they are over the limit.

Even if the random stop and breathalyser was open to legal challenge I would imagine that an over the limit driver would still face a conviction because the evidence is provided at the police station and not at the roadside.

 

[ValA.]

We've just come back from France, and on the road between Limoux and Couiza the Gendarmes were breathalysing EVERY driver. This was mid-afternoon when I suppose they were checking the lunchtime drinkers. They had coned off the road into a layby where a team of officers were just testing everyone. Fortunately Mr Val A had not had a drink, and was fine - but our friend says this is now common practice and he's been breathalysed twice in different laybys on different roads and at different times of day, in the same area.