HELP problems with Caravan Water Pump

[Parksy]

Hi
As preparation for the new season I thought I would sterilise the caravan water system on our Bailey Senator Arizona(S5/2006) by running a solution of puriclean into the water system. The 'van water system is based around a Whale Sureflo (UP0814) pump with 2 valves to give the options of
(1) Aquaroll to 'van taps
(2) Aquaroll to fill inboard tank
(3) Inboard tank to 'van taps
I removed the filter from the filler pipe that goes into the aquaroll to save contaminating it with the sterilising solution and began to fill the inboard tank with the puriclean solution in the aquaroll. At first all was well and the inboard tank was filling up.
Then however I began to experience problems. Although the pump is running it will no longer pump water from the aquaroll to the inboard tank or direct to the 'van taps. The pump WILL pump the water from the inboard tank to the 'van taps.
I wonder if some grit or other foreign body has got into the pump?
Does this type of pump have a grit filter that I could clean? Where is it?
ANY ADVICE would be very welcome we are due to go away for 11 nights commencing this Saturday but this will not be possible if we can't pump water into the 'van and I don't know if I can get anyone out to look at the 'van before Friday.
Tim.

 

[BigTim]

BUMP

Does anyone have any suggestions??!!

Please
Tim

 

[BigTim]

BUMP AGAIN

Does anyone have any helpful advice please. Our local mobile caravan service engineer is booked up for a month so can't come to our aid.
I don't see how it can be too serious as we used the 'van in February and it was fine.
Tim

 

[seth1]

Hello Tim im not familar with your system,but surely there must be a change over valve some where?Why not buy the caravan manual-John Wickersham,may be of some use.Have you checked the pipework?

 

[Parksy]

Hi Tim
The pump is obviously working so there would appear to be some sort of obstruction between the aquaroll and the pump.
This may sound silly but first of all check that no drain valves have been left open, I've fetched water from the tap in my aquaroll only to pump most of it on to the ground because I'd forgotten about the drain valve.
Check that the flow taps which direct water around the system are in their correct positions, the instructions for the in line taps on the pipework of my Abbey bear little relation to the actual operation of these taps.
If you've removed the filter try blowing harp into the end of the filer pipe whilst it's connected to the rest of the system and with a tap open, this may dislodge an obstruction.
You may find out where the obstruction lies by tracing back to find out which parts of your system work and which dont.

 

[Clive-Cardiff]

Hi Tim, If you can pump from the tank to the taps that will rule out any problem with the pump itself.
When you are set to pump from aquaroll to tap do you get any spluttering at the tap? If so check the pipe connections between the pump and the aquaroll.
One easy point to check is the three way valve you use to select where your pumping to. Remove the valve and check that the ball is moving in the valve when you turn the handle.
These pumps are prone to damage from grit and they must have a filter fitted to intercept the grit. In your setup the filter on the end of the filler pipe fulfills this purpose so an extra grit filter at the pump is not usually fitted. For this reason if you remove the filter to pump cleaning fluid through the system, make sure that there is no grit already in the aquaroll. If your due to change the filter. leave it in place and discard after pumping the fluid through.

 

[xtrailman]

Remove the hose connector and look at the wall inlet, does it have a check valve?
It so gently push it a few times to make sure its movement is free.

 

[JTQ]

The fact that the pump works pumping water from the inboard tank does not indicate the pump is not the problem.
From the Aquaroll it has to lift the water higher than it does pumping from the inboard tank, a very different task as it is working against gravity.
Areas needing checking are: -

• 
  is there any leak in the suction pipe
• 
  is there any dirt in the pumps internal non return valves. [prime suspect reading how it failed]

These pumps are susceptible, no very susceptible, to contamination of these valves. Take it apart washing it carefully; quite possibly you might not even see what is causing the problem, as it moves during stripping but they need to be clean to seat correctly.
You used to be able to buy a service kit of valves; though I found cleaning was all that was ever needed.
We used to have this problem on our Castleton and got used to cleaning the pump.

 

[Dustydog]

Hi Big Tim
I had the same problem on the Wyoming last summer. One of the three way valves shafts had sheared so it would only pump from the inboard tank. A new valve was £5.00 and took less than 5 minutes to change. All sorted .

 

[Willi-Wonti]

Do you have a separate outboard pump that pumps the water from the aquaroll?
A pump can not pump air only liquids, so if you have an external pump it needs priming before use & to do that you put the pump into the aquaroll first before you connect up.

 

[Willi-Wonti]

Hi Tim
The pump is obviously working so there would appear to be some sort of obstruction between the aquaroll and the pump.
This may sound silly but first of all check that no drain valves have been left open, I've fetched water from the tap in my aquaroll only to pump most of it on to the ground because I'd forgotten about the drain valve.
Check that the flow taps which direct water around the system are in their correct positions, the instructions for the in line taps on the pipework of my Abbey bear little relation to the actual operation of these taps.
If you've removed the filter try blowing harp into the end of the filer pipe whilst it's connected to the rest of the system and with a tap open, this may dislodge an obstruction.
You may find out where the obstruction lies by tracing back to find out which parts of your system work and which dont.

Blimmy Steve what a waste of Harp

 

[JTQ]

A pump can not pump air only liquids, so if you have an external pump it needs priming before use & to do that you put the pump into the aquaroll first before you connect up.

That however is not the case with these Surflo internal positive displacement pumps, they pump air very well unless inhibited in some way and dont need priming.

 

[Parksy]

If you've removed the filter try blowing harp into the end of the filer pipe whilst it's connected to the rest of the system and with a tap open, this may dislodge an obstruction.
You may find out where the obstruction lies by tracing back to find out which parts of your system work and which dont.

Blimmy Steve what a waste of Harp

Oops, I P'd when I should have D'd

Is 'Blimmy' brumijum for Blimey?

 

[BigTim]

Hi All

Pretty cheesed off with this problem.

I got Lennie from Knowsley Caravan Services, a MCEA registered engineer, today.

He was a nice bloke and tried hard but he was not familiar with the Whale Smartflo pump and the valve set up in my Bailey Senator Arizona.

He opened up the pump but the diaphram seemed okay. He, also, disconnected all the pipework and 2 3-way valves and checked for any blockages -I had not been confident about doing this myself. He could not find any major blockages.

At my suggestion he contacted Whale who said that there should be gauze filters in the pipe connectors adjacent to the pump but we could not see any.

When the system was re-assembled it was slightly improved. When pumping from the aquaroll to the taps or inboard tank I measure it as pumping approx 1 litre/minute which gives a pretty slow flow rate at the taps. If the inboard tank is filled the flow rate from there is much faster but then it takes 40 minutes to refill the inboard tank from the aquaroll.

The cost of this 90 minute visit was £45!

So as I said earlier pretty cheesed off.

Tim

 

[BigTim]

To JTQ
Any chance of little more detail on cleaning the pump as I don't feel too confident about doing this.
Thanks
Tim

 

[ProfAlGoogle]

Hi tim, have you checked the voltage at the pump? Sounds to me it could be low voltage, thus the pump will be working at a reduced rate = low flow, the pump will need to see at least 12.5 volts. Regards Allan

 

[Dustydog]

Hi All

Pretty cheesed off with this problem.

I got Lennie from Knowsley Caravan Services, a MCEA registered engineer, today.

He was a nice bloke and tried hard but he was not familiar with the Whale Smartflo pump and the valve set up in my Bailey Senator Arizona.

He opened up the pump but the diaphram seemed okay. He, also, disconnected all the pipework and 2 3-way valves and checked for any blockages -I had not been confident about doing this myself. He could not find any major blockages.

At my suggestion he contacted Whale who said that there should be gauze filters in the pipe connectors adjacent to the pump but we could not see any.

When the system was re-assembled it was slightly improved. When pumping from the aquaroll to the taps or inboard tank I measure it as pumping approx 1 litre/minute which gives a pretty slow flow rate at the taps. If the inboard tank is filled the flow rate from there is much faster but then it takes 40 minutes to refill the inboard tank from the aquaroll.

The cost of this 90 minute visit was £45!

So as I said earlier pretty cheesed off.

Tim

Hi Tim
When he removed the two 3 way valves are you sure the internal ball gates moved properly to redirect the water flow?
Sorry to "harp" on but that was my problem and a new valve cured it .

 

[JTQ]

To JTQ
Any chance of little more detail on cleaning the pump as I don't feel too confident about doing this.
Thanks
Tim

Sorry Tim but I am rusty in the detail and cant find on the internet pictures with the detail I need to remind me.
Mine was the earlier unit with three chambers; I had it in the 90s hence difficulty in remembering the detail.

I have found your four chamber “Smartflo” one and a crappy exploded view of it.
Pump: http://www.whalepumps.com/caravan_RV/product_list/16/72/
From this page you can access an “Exploded view”

Mine which appears is similar to yours, had next to the end plate with the inlet and outlet connections, a plastic “slice” containing the pump’s valves. Here I found that bits could lodge on the valves that cause the pump to stop lifting water. Even quite small bits caused this to happen. A good rinsing under the tap and very gently cleaning round the valve seats with a finger nail was all I needed to do to get it reworking. I never needed to use a spares kit.
The pump was not difficult to work on, you don’t need to dismantle the diaphragm, its pistons or swash plate, the target is only that valve slice.
In your case from the picture there ought to be on the left of the “inlet” port a filter chamber with, I am assuming, a cylindrical gauze filter. In my case there was no original filter fitted but I purchased an inline one sold for the competitor “Sureflo” brand pump.
http://www.marinescene.co.uk/product/7361/shurflo-inline-filter

I hope this helps and my mind has remembered enough detail to be of value. John

 

[BigTim]

Hi Everyone

H-A-L-L-E-U-J-A-H !!! and a really mean that

I've "cracked it". I'm not working today and so I thought I'd have another go at the pump.
After watching the guy from Knowsley Caravans and with the advice folk on this and other forums - especially (JTQ) on this forum I felt a bit more confident about agains dismantling the system.
I took out the pump with a view to rinsiing it through as advised by John/JTQ. While the pump was off I noticed that in the inlet in the body of the pump there was a thin cylinder. With some trepidation I removed this using the refill out of my Parker pen. This turned out to be the elusive filter which we had not been able to locate yesterday. The bottom of the filter contained a wad of what appears to be hair from Max our collie!!! with other added bits. I removed this bumf and re-assembled the pump and pipework. After re-assembling the I tested the pump on pumping from aquaroll to inboard tank. The 40L aquaroll emptied in under 10 minutes quite an improvement on yesterday's one Litre per minute..
So a B-I-G thank you to ALL who offered advice.- we-re very grateful.
Tim

 

[Dustydog]

Well done Tim
Glad you found the cure

 

[Willi-Wonti]

A pump can not pump air only liquids, so if you have an external pump it needs priming before use & to do that you put the pump into the aquaroll first before you connect up.

That however is not the case with these Surflo internal positive displacement pumps, they pump air very well unless inhibited in some way and dont need priming.

That sounds very interesting
Perhaps Coventry Godiva who make our fire pumps could learn a leson. Nothing worse than setting in to open water and not being able to prime

 

[Willi-Wonti]

Spel cheka ay werkin