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Nov 11, 2009
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Can I suggest that you read the second paragraph in my post again as you seemed have missed that part? Thanks.
I did read it and the situation has been mirrored in towns and cities across the country for as long had there has been technological or commercial change. Grangemouth is no different.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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I am still wondering where all these magical jobs are and if they exist, why are there still vacancies? Maybe people do not want to work out in the cold and wet etc if they are a professional etc?
 
Mar 14, 2005
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Buckman

The days of a job for life have virtually disappeared, and anyone who still thinks like that is going to have a rude awakening.

I'm not without sympathy to those who are unfortunately made redundant. I have been there myself when a company I was working for closed down making about 120 employees redundant. I'm sure many other PC contributors will also have experienced the same thing, but most who for whatever reason still need to work, have managed to find alternative employment, and not just sat at home moping and taking benefits and not looking for work.

When a major employer does close down life can get difficult,. Necessity is the mother of invention, and usually these days most people do find alternative employment albeit sometime further afield, or possibly in a differnt type of activity. The national employment figures do show this.

Few people like change, but if you don't change, then you'll never discover other exciting things.
It's always the doom and gloom scenario you seem to like to spread.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Buckman

The days of a job for life have virtually disappeared, and anyone who still thinks like that is going to have a rude awakening.

I'm not without sympathy to those who are unfortunately made redundant. I have been there myself when a company I was working for closed down making about 120 employees redundant. I'm sure many other PC contributors will also have experienced the same thing, but most who for whatever reason still need to work, have managed to find alternative employment, and not just sat at home moping and taking benefits and not looking for work.

When a major employer does close down life can get difficult,. Necessity is the mother of invention, and usually these days most people do find alternative employment albeit sometime further afield, or possibly in a differnt type of activity. The national employment figures do show this.

Few people like change, but if you don't change, then you'll never discover other exciting things.
It's always the doom and gloom scenario you seem to like to spread.
In this case the large number of redundancies at Grangemouth could easily have been avoided and was caused by a governmental decision and not poor management. During my lifetime I had been made redundant twice. First time I was lot younger and no issue finding another job in my field of expertise even though I had to relocate.

At the time no such thing as job seekers allowance or free medical. Second time at 59 years of age and no one wants to employ a 59 year year old so you need pick up the crumbs. Plus the fact that I lost 6 years of paying into my pension fund. I know that it is like to be without work and the struggling to make ends meet!
 
Nov 11, 2009
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In this case the large number of redundancies at Grangemouth could easily have been avoided and was caused by a governmental decision and not poor management. During my lifetime I had been made redundant twice. First time I was lot younger and no issue finding another job in my field of expertise even though I had to relocate.

At the time no such thing as job seekers allowance or free medical. Second time at 59 years of age and no one wants to employ a 59 year year old so you need pick up the crumbs. Plus the fact that I lost 6 years of paying into my pension fund. I know that it is like to be without work and the struggling to make ends meet!
Grangemouth had been under a cloud at least since 2009 and changes of ownership didn’t manage to turn it around. What was the Government decision that caused it to close?


  • Financial Losses: The refinery was losing significant money (around $500,000 daily) and wasn't globally competitive.
  • Infrastructure & Maintenance:Aging equipment required huge capital investment to maintain its license, and a critical "hydrocracker" unit failed to restart after planned maintenance in 2023.
  • Market Changes: Declining demand for traditional fuels like petrol and diesel, alongside the rise of electric vehicles, made refining less profitable.
 
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Jun 20, 2005
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Grangemouth had been under a cloud at least since 2009 and changes of ownership didn’t manage to turn it around. What was the Government decision that caused it to close?


  • Financial Losses: The refinery was losing significant money (around $500,000 daily) and wasn't globally competitive.
  • Infrastructure & Maintenance:Aging equipment required huge capital investment to maintain its license, and a critical "hydrocracker" unit failed to restart after planned maintenance in 2023.
  • Market Changes: Declining demand for traditional fuels like petrol and diesel, alongside the rise of electric vehicles, made refining less profitable.
Very sadly Grangemouth is yet another political victim of successive governments who were some will say short sighted.
This dissertation from University of St Andrews is very close to the truth


Like our steel industry and others before we seem to have a death wish on British manufacturing, preferring cheaper from PRC and other not so friendly nations.

History clearly shows any Country that is not self supporting in energy etc will not last long when hostilities start😢
 
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Nov 11, 2009
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Very sadly Grangemouth is yet another political victim of successive governments who were some will say short sighted.
This dissertation from University of St Andrews is very close to the truth


Like our steel industry and others before we seem to have a death wish on British manufacturing, preferring cheaper from PRC and other not so friendly nations.

History clearly shows any Country that is not self supporting in energy etc will not last long when hostilities start😢
An interesting paper which as you say mirrors other industries such as steel, coal, chemicals, but just how far can government intervention go when markets change and intervention doesn’t necessarily lead to good economic outcomes, thus costing the taxpayer one way or another. Best then to ramp up wind, solar, renawables, interconnectors, and nuclear, whilst increasing storage for gas and fossil fuels.

“History clearly shows any Country that is not self supporting in energy etc will not last long when hostilities start”

Your comment above doesn't recognise that in WW2 Gt Britain was self sufficient for coal to generate electricity. But the small oilfields in Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire only provided less than 1% of the country’s wartime needs. The remaining 99% came from America as crude or refined product, some from the Caribbean and some came from Iraq and Iran via the Cape.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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Just seen this . I wonder if car and caravan , non EV, are allowed to use the bays for parking? Apparently these bays have replaced conventional ones.

View attachment 10013View attachment 10013
To answer the OPs original question, no you can't use these for parking. Whether a non-EV + trailer, or EV + trailer or non-EV truck or EV truck. These are charging bays, not parking bays. If you are not charging, about to charge, or finishing charging, you should not be here.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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I honestly don’t know so the answer hence the question.
Does the plug in EV lead have the same configuration for a HGV as for a domestic electric car?
Mel
Yes - it does, it's a European wide standard called Type-2 CCS. The available power for a truck _may_be higher than a car can consume (but also may not). Pretty much any car made after about 2018 that can rapid charge (with a couple of notable exceptions, the Nissan leaf pre-2024 and Lexus UX300) can physically use these.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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To answer the OPs original question, no you can't use these for parking. Whether a non-EV + trailer, or EV + trailer or non-EV truck or EV truck. These are charging bays, not parking bays. If you are not charging, about to charge, or finishing charging, you should not be here.
Unfortunately many people probably cannot understand that concept.
 
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Jul 23, 2021
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That has already been killed off as many probably would not like to be paying the per miles charge on an EV? Many current HGV clock up 100's of thousands of miles before they are taken off the road. Some probably get to a million miles or so before being retired.
Current cost per mile in terms of duty on diesel at 7MPG is about 38.5p. I.e. 10 times more than the proposed 3p per mile. I don't think an EV pence per mile at that level is going to change the economics of moving from diesel to electricity forHGV drivers.
 
Jul 18, 2017
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Current cost per mile in terms of duty on diesel at 7MPG is about 38.5p. I.e. 10 times more than the proposed 3p per mile. I don't think an EV pence per mile at that level is going to change the economics of moving from diesel to electricity forHGV drivers.
By the same token the difference is buying the EV in the first place as they are normally a couple of thousand more than the equivalent ICE vehicle. I wonder if the government took into account the extra VAT generated by the sale of a new EV when they came up with the pay per mile?
 
Jul 23, 2021
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By the same token the difference is buying the EV in the first place as they are normally a couple of thousand more than the equivalent ICE vehicle. I wonder if the government took into account the extra VAT generated by the sale of a new EV when they came up with the pay per mile?
Probably for cars. Probably not for HGV, after all almost all HGV purchases will be by a VAT registered business. But the whole 3p per mile is still in early stages with lots of consultation to get through first. I expect it will look different by the time it gets applied. Probably for trucks too. And again, the update of EV for haulage is going to be driven by economics, not ideology. Whatever is cheapest as a solution will win.
 
Jul 23, 2021
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Sadly although I hope you are correct, I doubt if that will happen!
It's inevitable in the private industry led economy we live in. Actually, I should amend that. Best value (not lowest cost) solutions will always be selected as they maximise long term financial benefit. Best value being defined as the lowest cost solution to provide the necessary functionality for the desired time period. I.e. avoid the "buy cheap, buy twice" trap. Whatever solution is able to deliver long term value will always succeed (in the long term) over more expensive solutions. It's simply the world we live in.
 
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Jul 18, 2017
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It's inevitable in the private industry led economy we live in. Actually, I should amend that. Best value (not lowest cost) solutions will always be selected as they maximise long term financial benefit. Best value being defined as the lowest cost solution to provide the necessary functionality for the desired time period. I.e. avoid the "buy cheap, buy twice" trap. Whatever solution is able to deliver long term value will always succeed (in the long term) over more expensive solutions. It's simply the world we live in.
Sadly I wish that were true of any government policy! :cry:
 

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