Hobby caravan 12v power

[kenmac15]

This must've been posted before so sorry for repeating .....

Yesterday I went to a car show & there was a lot of UK built caravans in the camping area but with it being in a field there was no EHU & obviously all of them were running everything on leisure battery power only.

When I get my Hobby I'll be doing a lot of no EHU field staying during car show season.... what I need to know is if I get a 12v battery fitted for the motor movers can I get it wired up to run the whole caravan ie; hot water,shower, lights,TV etc so I don't need to leave it plugged in to the car (I know I can run basics this way) or does most of the big equipment only run on 240v.

Cheers
Ken

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Not sure what comes as standard in a Hobby, but a battery will NOT power the fridge, hot water, shower, space heater, cooker, 230v sockets or mains lights. A British van will have gas as an option for fridge, water heater, space heater and cooker. Do Hobby's have cookers or do the Europeans always cook outside on the BBQ?

 

[Martin24]

Change any lights you want to use over to LED if they aren't already.

You will need to run your fridge, hot water and heating on gas.

I would go for a 110 battery anyway with a mover.

I would also suggest a 55w plus freestanding solar panel or 100w plus roof mounted one if you are going to be regularly without EHU.

 

[kenmac15]

Not sure what comes as standard in a Hobby, but a battery will NOT power the fridge, hot water, shower, space heater, cooker, 230v sockets or mains lights. A British van will have gas as an option for fridge, water heater, space heater and cooker. Do Hobby's have cookers or do the Europeans always cook outside on the BBQ?

Cheers for the reply
Yes the UK one's do come with a Thetford oven & all Hobby's have 3 ring burner.
All of that I know will be ok, but it was the toilet flush & shower pump etc I was more concerned with.

 

[kenmac15]

Change any lights you want to use over to LED if they aren't already.

You will need to run your fridge, hot water and heating on gas.

I would go for a 110 battery anyway with a mover.

I would also suggest a 55w plus freestanding solar panel or 100w plus roof mounted one if you are going to be regularly without EHU.

We're ok on lights as every light is LED as standard, I know the fridge, hot water & heating will run on gas but wasn't sure if they needed a source of power for ignition to start them initially.
I only thought solar panels were used to keep the leisure battery topped up, didn't realise they could provide power to run stuff by it's self.you learn something new every day

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

I only thought solar panels were used to keep the leisure battery topped up, didn't realise they could provide power to run stuff by it's self.you learn something new every day

You misunderstood Martin24's comments. A solar panel does indeed only top up the leisure battery.

 

[kenmac15]

I only thought solar panels were used to keep the leisure battery topped up, didn't realise they could provide power to run stuff by it's self.you learn something new every day

You misunderstood Martin24's comments. A solar panel does indeed only top up the leisure battery.

Cheers I thought I had

 

[Martin24]

Keeping the battery topped up with the solar panel means no worries about the battery running down. Yes there is a need to have power to ignite things such as the fridge and of course to keep your toilet flushing.

A few years ago some manufacturers had a fan fitted to the oven so that needed power too.

Glad the lights are all LED that makes the biggest difference when off grid.

Also of course means you can manage without ehu all year round and save an absolute fortune on site fees.

Hope all goes well with the new van. Enjoy!

 

[kenmac15]

Cheers we can't wait to get it & start enjoying it.

 

[Damian]

You will need to have the "Autark" pack fitted to enable full function of the battery into the main system.

 

[Danddandy]

What is an "Autark"?

 

[Damian]

The Autark pack is a unit which is connected to the main power supply unit and allows for a leisure battery to be correctly incorporated into the 12v system complete with car charging when towing.
It also allows for a solar panel connection.

 

[StevieRuss]

I only thought solar panels were used to keep the leisure battery topped up, didn't realise they could provide power to run stuff by it's self.you learn something new every day

You misunderstood Martin24's comments. A solar panel does indeed only top up the leisure battery.

A solar panel can run a load but as the voltage is dynamic and usually quite a high voltage a solar charge controller is required to regulate the voltage to your chosen battery technology.

My solar charge controller has a "load" output that is regulated and will cut off its output when the voltage is lower than a usable voltage (adjustable with software). Granted, I personally don't use it as I have my system wired directly from the leisure batteries but the option is there. The bonus is that the SSC will display the current being used which is handy for ascertaining the current the system is using.

 

[VicMallows]

The bonus is that the SSC will display the current being used which is handy for ascertaining the current the system is using.

Stevie,
What controller are you using? Presumably it has a shunt incorporated if it is able to display the load current. Is it also able to display the charge current into the battery? You say it is software controlled; can you adjust the bulk/absorption voltage and times (typically 14.4v) and also the float voltage (typically 13.6v) via the software? Importantly, have you verified that these functions actually perform as they should?

I am interested because I have had poor experiences with controllers which make great claims in their specifications, but fail to live up to them when subjected to proper testing. When contacted, the sellers usually don't have a clue about the detailed technicalities!

 

[StevieRuss]

The bonus is that the SSC will display the current being used which is handy for ascertaining the current the system is using.

Stevie,
What controller are you using? Presumably it has a shunt incorporated if it is able to display the load current. Is it also able to display the charge current into the battery? You say it is software controlled; can you adjust the bulk/absorption voltage and times (typically 14.4v) and also the float voltage (typically 13.6v) via the software? Importantly, have you verified that these functions actually perform as they should?

I am interested because I have had poor experiences with controllers which make great claims in their specifications, but fail to live up to them when subjected to proper testing. When contacted, the sellers usually don't have a clue about the detailed technicalities!

It's an Epever Tracer MPPT 20amp (10/20/30/40amp options of this model). They're about £100 for the 20a version but you can find them cheaper on eBay if you want to take the chance!

It does display the voltage of the solar panel and it's perceived available current and then the voltage and current it has chosen to provide the battery. You can control many of these features through the software that you plug in with a USB ---> RS485 and then save it to one USER option in the battery selection.

I don't know the software extensively but it appears to offer a bunch of adjustable options as in bulk and float charge voltages (and times) and the ability to do things like turning off the Equalisation charging if need be (for AGM). It appears very well regarded for it's price and although I haven't clamped the current anywhere to work out its accuracy (my clamp meter isn't calibrated anyway!) I feel confident that it was a good purchase. I've adjusted my bulk charge to 14.52v for the AGM for instance.

There are further options to program when a load comes on or off which could be handy for people that want to control exterior lighting (or whatever) from the controller itself. All in all a very decent and solid unit so far.

There are a few videos on Youtube that cover at least the basics as well as the software. There's a chap called Adam Welch on Youtube that reviews the unit very well (compared to some of the other reviewers out there). Software, hardware and the mt50 remote (which I recommend). Check him out..

 

[VicMallows]

Many Thanks for the info. I had noted that one as the most likely candidate once you get beyond the sub-£10 PWM controllers,so good to have some personal feedback.

I have a couple of the really cheap ones (especially if you purchase directly from China). Both are adequate in their own way if you monitor what they are doing and override them as necessary (!). One sets back to a 13.8v float as soon as the battery reaches 14.4v, so you need to override it in order to fully recharge the battery in a reasonable time. The other simply maintains the charge voltage at 14.6v maximum, which over time would severely overcharge the battery ....so you need to disconnect the PV once the battery is charged. (I have a proper cumulative Ahr monitor on the battery which is probably the single most useful bit of kit in managing the battery well).

Both 'claimed' to be 3 (or 4) stage controllers which blatantly they are not. The second one even claimed both in the advert and in the enclosed instruction leaflet that the parameters could be adjusted ,,,,,,yes they could be displayed and changed on the LCD, but made absolutely no difference to the actual functionality of the device!

 

[StevieRuss]

I suppose you do get what you pay for :cheer:

I tend to leave our solar panel on all the time around the times where we're likely to go camping a lot. The AGM batteries do hold their voltage very well though. I'm under the impression it's no bad thing to leave our system on all the time though but a cut out switch from the panel is peace of mind I suppose.

The higher bulk charge voltage of the AGM means i've had to tweak the voltages a little to the manufacturers specs. Saying that, i've struggled to get an official definitive answer to the exact recommended voltages for their batteries so i've gone with 14.52v which is in-between their recommended bulk charge voltage.

I suspect the Epever charger is a Chinese machine but their use seems quite wide spread and for the moderate price I thought it would be our best choice. I also stumped up a few quid for the temperature sensor and tied it to the negative post on one of the batteries. Apparently the charger reacts and therefore operates differently based on the temperature it sees from the sensor (as well as its internal temperature sensor).

All in all, i'd recommend one without question!

Cheers.. Steve

p.s. The USB --> RS485 cable and the sensor were an extra £10 so well worth the extra investment

 

[Steamer]

Our 2017 Hobby doesn't have 12v electrics or a leisure battery either, but you will find that when connected to the car you can still run all the lights, water pump, toilet flush and even run the fridge! While I wouldn't recommend running the fridge from the car battery as you will kill the battery and not start your car later, but the 3-way fridge can also run on gas.

If you look inside your caravan where the fuse box is, you should find the mains inverter that converts 240v AC to 12v DC.
From what I understand is that the mains power going in, goes to the inverter and is then converted to 12v DC, meaning that everything runs on 12v already.

A simple, cheap solution is to buy a leisure battery and a 13 pin (car end) socket. Put the battery in the the front locker when you arrive on site. Connect the battery to the permanent live pins in the back of the car end socket and simply plug your caravan 13 pin plug into it. You will now have all your van electrics working until the battery dies.

Obviously the socket needs to be properly wired up and with a few battery connectors on the other end. I'd also recommend an inline fuse.

A cheap solar panel recharging kit will top the battery up during the day.

 

[Damian]

Quote " A simple, cheap solution is to buy a leisure battery and a 13 pin (car end) socket. Put the battery in the the front locker when you arrive on site. Connect the battery to the permanent live pins in the back of the car end socket and simply plug your caravan 13 pin plug into it. You will now have all your van electrics working until the battery dies."

NEVER put the battery in the front locker with the gas cylinders !!!!!!
It is against the electrical safety regulations and gas safety and use regulations !!!!!!!!!

 

[Steamer]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Our caravan has a gas locker, but also a front locker that allows access to the under bed area, which is physically seperate from the gas locker.

 

[Damian]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Our caravan has a gas locker, but also a front locker that allows access to the under bed area, which is physically seperate from the gas locker.

And what system of venting the battery is there? or are you sleeping on top of a potential bomb?

 

[Steamer]

You raise a good point for other caravaners, but our Hobby has floor vents everywhere, including under the beds.

Thinking about it for a second, all our previous caravans had air vents under the seats and beds including the locations of the the leisure batteries. The leisure battery was located under the sofa/bed in our old Eriba and Bailey, so I feel it is quite a usual place for leisure batteries to be stored.

Also, leisure batteries tend to be sealed and maintenance free aren't they? How can they be a potential bomb? Are we saying that leisure batteries are dangerous?

Perhaps the message to the original poster should be to buy a leisure battery and 13 pin plug, put them in a battery box and store them outside with a fire extinguisher situated nearby!!

 

[Damian]

Quote " Also, leisure batteries tend to be sealed and maintenance free aren't they? How can they be a potential bomb? Are we saying that leisure batteries are dangerous? "

A battery is a battery regardless of what you call it.

The name "sealed" is rather a misnomer as all lead acid batteries have the potential to give off hydrogen gas, either through overcharging or plate failure and they all have a vent otherwise the battery would explode in the event of such a failure.

The "maintenance free" is also a misnomer as such, all it means is that the particular battery has more electrolyte inside it so "should" not need topping up for the life of the battery, but with overcharging it will lose some of that electrolyte, as a vapour as it gasses, releasing hydrogen as well, which is highly explosive..

Batteries should be in specific enclosures, isolated from the interior of the van and with suitable venting.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hydrogen gas is the lightest element and it will naturally rise in air. Consequently floor vents will not protect a caravan from a 'Gassing' battery. You need a room sealed box which only vents outside,

 

[Steamer]

I'm not convinced that a leisure battery needs to be in a self contained battery box that needs to be sealed away from the living quarters. I have owned countless professionally built cars, caravans and boats where the batteries are sharing the same space as the occupants. If the rules have changed over the years, then can someone please point me towards the written legislation that states this.