Honda may leave Swindon

[Parksy]

Honda's state of the art manufacturing plant at Swindon is in danger of being closed because of a few NIMBYs.
Honda want to build two largish wind turbine generators to help reduce there power costs and to be "greener".
The NIMBYs are objecting and Swindon Council appears to be dithering.
We've already lost a big contract for Bombardier to Germany.
Lets hope a few NIMBYs don't cost the UK the Honda plant!! At least 3000 jobs would be lost plus all the ancillary support jobs which must run into thousands!.

Is it the tail wagging the dog again? Grrrr

 

[AKA]

That is just typical but is hardly shocking these days we are selling ourselves and the economy down the river the same people that complain about the national dept and there being no jobs or skills in the UK are the same ones that allow companies from the EU and further afield to bid for contracts that should never have been sourced outwith our own countries, when it comes to government or national companies contracting out they should only be allowed to source within our own countries, it is absolute disgrace but surprising, sadly not anymore..did they learn nothing with the iceland bank fiasco..why on earth..lets not even go there
Can this country do nothing for itself anymore from ships to cars, food and clothes, we supply pretty much nothing to our own trade markets anymore. its not only sad but pathetic and shameful that nearly all of our heavy industries are sourced and imported from abroad fed up,lollie

 

[Lutz]

I think what Dustydog was trying to get at was exactly the opposite. He can't understand why things are being made difficult for the industry to be competitive. I'm sure that Honda aren't only producing cars for the UK market in Swindon so it would make sense to support the company in furthering their exports. After all, because the UK cannot be self-sufficient, if only for lack of natural resources, export trade is the only thing that keeps the economy healthy.

 

[Dustydog]

I think what Dustydog was trying to get at was exactly the opposite. He can't understand why things are being made difficult for the industry to be competitive. I'm sure that Honda aren't only producing cars for the UK market in Swindon so it would make sense to support the company in furthering their exports. After all, because the UK cannot be self-sufficient, if only for lack of natural resources, export trade is the only thing that keeps the economy healthy.

ugal, Ireland spring to mind
I think that's the point Lutz that a few selfish people may well spoil a thriving Industry and force it to look elsewhere, Greece, Port ugal, Ireland spring to mind

Historically we had NIMBYs objecting to the Railways and their Victorian Viaducts. Many of these structures are now Listed structures to be preserved for ever. And they enhance the landscape. Maybe wind turbines will enjoy that pleasure in years to come.

 

[sunlover58]

Get your facts straight Dustydog, you have no idea what you're talking about. Honda want 3 x 120 metre turbines built on their plant. The nearest home will be only 320 metres away. This is not about nimbyism, it's about the irresponsible siting of these giant industrial structures. This scaremongering about Honda moving away is ridiculous - they have just announced they are building the new CRV at their plant, that doesn't sound like they are going anywhere soon. Nobody is against Honda, but if they decide to go it will certainly not be because of wind turbines.

 

[Lutz]

I can't see what's irresponsible about erecting wind turbines. They're a lot less likely to do anyone any harm than a power station belching forth who knows what into the atmosphere.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Historically we had NIMBYs objecting to the Railways and their Victorian Viaducts. Many of these structures are now Listed structures to be preserved for ever. And they enhance the landscape. Maybe wind turbines will enjoy that pleasure in years to come.

If only the same could be said for road transport and the great swathes motorways cut out of the countryside to make way for them. Take Shap as an example where the west coast mainline blended into the landscape and how it looks now with the physical scarring of the M6 motorway. When motorways, or any other roads are built for that matter, the only objectors are those with homes in its path yet when an high speed railway is proposed, which only takes up a third of the area needed by a motorway, there is hell to play led by the powerful road haulage lobby.

 

[Surfer]

What every one seems to forget is that these wind turbines which are a blight on the countryside in comparison generate very little electric into the national grid. I wonder how much in costs Honda would save by having these eyesores built/ Over a 10 year period probably a big fat ZERO! It will probably take 50 or more years to break even on the costs. Getting all the building materials to the site probably does more environmental damage than the wind turbioen saves at the end of the day. We can blame these monstrousities on the government and tree huggers as all Honda want to do is say "look how green we are!" and forget about the environmental impact they have building cars especially electric cars!

 

[Lutz]

One single wind turbine of that size will produce around 7.5 MW of power, so all three will most likely cover more than the needs of the factory. I have no way of judging the comparative cost of erecting the turbines with that of building a conventional power station so I can't comment on your statement. Whether they are eyesores is a matter of personal preference, but personally I find them less objectionable than a power station.

 

[mucky pup]

Get your facts straight Dustydog, you have no idea what you're talking about. Honda want 3 x 120 metre turbines built on their plant. The nearest home will be only 320 metres away. This is not about nimbyism, it's about the irresponsible siting of these giant industrial structures. This scaremongering about Honda moving away is ridiculous - they have just announced they are building the new CRV at their plant, that doesn't sound like they are going anywhere soon. Nobody is against Honda, but if they decide to go it will certainly not be because of wind turbines.
[
Most people who complain about Wind Turbines are the ones that live near by ie South Marston who are worried about the effect on the housing market and their property. I dont see a problem with them.

 

[Dustydog]

Get your facts straight Dustydog, you have no idea what you're talking about. Honda want 3 x 120 metre turbines built on their plant. The nearest home will be only 320 metres away. This is not about nimbyism, it's about the irresponsible siting of these giant industrial structures. This scaremongering about Honda moving away is ridiculous - they have just announced they are building the new CRV at their plant, that doesn't sound like they are going anywhere soon. Nobody is against Honda, but if they decide to go it will certainly not be because of wind turbines.

Well Sunlover my old dog,
You seem very well informed

Pray tell us you are not the one who lives 320 m away??

When the Local BBC Radio Station, Local Council, and Local Newspapers say there is a "threat" then surely common sense says it cannot be summarily dismissed.
The point here surely is we cannot have a small minority damage anything where thousands of jobs are involved ?
Are you against these wind turbines?
Where do you suggest they site them?
As far as I am aware the Turbine thing cropped up long after the CRV announcement.

See this http://swindon-business.net/index.php/2011/07/13/honda-turbine-plan-put-on-hold-again/

 

[GeorgeandAde]

I was very lucky about 10 years ago.
I was working for a company and we were treated to a day out at he Honda factory in Swindon.
After talking to a lot of the shop floor staff on the production line,I was amazed at how happy and contented they were with their jobs at Swindon.
Even the managers,office staff and supervisors would "roll up their sleeves" and pitch in when deadlines were approaching.
Hope it doesnt close.
Adrian

 

[AKA]

I would rather a wind turbine than a massive pylon any day and they are dotted all over the place,.The wind turbines that are all over the highlands have to be frequently turned off because they produce far to much electricity on what you would presume ideal windy days.its also worth remembering that we have no way of storing electricity of this volume.
I rather think that Dusty and I are in fact batting from the same direction, the UK needs to build on its own exports but it also has to strengthen its own economic market, we quiet happily import anything from the other side of the world, when you think of the great Victorian industrialists and scientists this country produced and whats left?... yes I know Honda is a Japanese company and Swindon especially cant afford to loose them, they are one of the very few car manufactures this country has left.even if they are not home grown.
lollie

 

[Surfer]

One single wind turbine of that size will produce around 7.5 MW of power, so all three will most likely cover more than the needs of the factory. I have no way of judging the comparative cost of erecting the turbines with that of building a conventional power station so I can't comment on your statement. Whether they are eyesores is a matter of personal preference, but personally I find them less objectionable than a power station.

I prefer a power station as it is only one building and not dozens and dozens of building scattered over the landscape as that is more damaging to the enviroment that one nuclear power station.! As said their input into the national grid is almost negligible in the scheme iof big things.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I Googled this out of interest .....

Nuclear reactors and wind turbines both vary in size and the amount of power they can generate, so an exact answer is really not possible.

But, a nuclear reactor can typically generate in the neighborhood of 1100 Megawatts of power, and as of 2011, a typical wind turbine installed on a large wind farm can generate in the neighborhood of 2 Megawatts of power.

So dividing 1100 by 2, you get 550. But this isn't the answer you want because wind turbines don't generate at their full capacity most of the time (while nuclear reactors do.) It would take 550 wind turbines to equal one nuclear reactor if they both operated at their maximum capacity all the time, which is not the case.

To correct for this, you need adjust by what's called the capacity factor. For nuclear reactors this is around 90%. That means over the long run, they generate electricity at 90% of their maximum. The capacity factor for large wind turbines is much lower, 30-35%. So 90%/30% is 3, and we need to multiply the 550 number by 3 to get the real equivalent.

550 X 3 = 1650.

So a reasonable number to quote for the number of turbines that equal one nuclear reactor is 1650.

..... one square kilometre of land is needed to house 20 turbines. I will leave it to others to work out how much land 1650 needs. Very scenic and I would imagine migrating birds love dodging the blades, especially at night.

 

[Lutz]

Nuclear reactor!!!!! Not really? Seriously? Shudder, shudder. Save the birds from wind turbines but radiate the people. Well, I suppose that's one way of reducing the demand for energy in the long run.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Interestingly Toyota have installed solar panels at their factory, 17,000 of them.

Hooray!
The land needed, which they are renting, equates to 90,000 sq. metres. There is no mention of the cost in emissions in producing these panels or the steel supporting structures. Neither is there a mention of the loss of valueable land but all the energy that is produced will be used by the factory. Not so great news

Will this mean that Toyota will be now self sufficient in energy

Sadly no, it will only produce 5% of Toyota's needs. It doesn't bear thinking about how much land and thousands more solar panels would be have to be produced to satisfy all of Toyatas energy needs and get rid of a nasty power station

 

[Lutz]

I presume you mean the Derby plant. I cannot believe that the management at Toyota would have approved such a project without a serious cost-benefit analysis, so it must have been a worthwhile undertaking to rent land rather than using existing available area. One can assume that the land couldn't have been put to more productive use as this would reflect in higher rental costs, making the whole project uneconomical.

 

[Dustydog]

According to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-14308351 enough power will be produced to make 7000 cars.
I wonder if plants like Honda and Toyota would be allowed mini nuclear power stations, just enough for their total use?

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

I presume you mean the Derby plant

Yes Lutz.
Jointly funded by British Gas and cost £10 million.
I'm a British Gas customer and this answers why their gas and electric bills are rising by 18% in the next couple of months. It makes me come all over in a nice warm glow to know that I'm helping Toyotas profits

 

[otherclive]

I don't have a problem with such wind turbines in an industrial area although they don't produce much more than 25-30% rated output over a year but I assume that Honda will have done their investment business case to account for that. Where I can understand local concerns is the noise from such installations. Whilst the SPL is not unduly high and would probably be less than passing traffic the repetative 'swoosh' of such turbines is now being considered by the H&SC as there is a growing body of evidence that it does intrude significantly into adjacent properties especially in Summer when the houses are opened up more, so grants for insulation etc cannot address this issue. Interesting that Toyota in Derby have opted for what is UK's largest solar panel farm and even there objections were raised over visaual impact. As a previous post noticed Derby and Swindon would not have been large 1900s railway centers in todays climate.

 

[Lutz]

Jointly funded by British Gas and cost £10 million.
I'm a British Gas customer and this answers why their gas and electric bills are rising by 18% in the next couple of months. It makes me come all over in a nice warm glow to know that I'm helping Toyotas profits

I'm sure British Gas are funding it for a good reason. Even if it may not guarantee a good return on investment in the short run, they probably want to make sure that they don't miss the boat later.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

they probably want to make sure that they don't miss the boat later.

oh, I didn't realise that Toyota built boats

 

[Lutz]

oh, I didn't realise that Toyota built boats

Not Toyota. I meant Britsh Gas as they seem to be the ones that are putting money into it.

 

[Dustydog]

they probably want to make sure that they don't miss the boat later.

oh, I didn't realise that Toyota built boats

That's why they build **** Cruisers