Thanks for easing my mind, Frank. Having thought about it, perhaps it's not such a bad thing anyway. Cotton instead of nylon, wood instead of plastic, glass instead of acrylic. Call me an old fuddy duddy but man made materials are not much of a substitute for natures alternative. Now if someone would like to invent the mud computer and the flint microwave, I'll buy it using that old fashioned form of money, bank notes.
Ricky, you asked steve what he's going to do about global warming. I suspect (sorry if I got it wrong, Steve) that like me, he's going to do exactly NOTHING, cos nothing we do is going to make any noticable difference. I intend to carry on living my life as I want to, and will not be dictated to by those with no authority do do so. When the law stops me driving my 4x4, or burning coal etc, then I'll reluctantly do it; until then, que sera, sera.
(this might not come over very clearly, cos my head is covered in sand)
(this might not come over very clearly, cos my head is covered in sand)
Reading back through this thread I really fear for our children's future.
The general opinion seems to be that global warming is a fallacy and if it's not a fallacy then bring it on let's enjoy the nice hot summers.
Let me quote some opinions
"DO ABOUT WHAT? I do not see a problem, I disagree with you and you still insist I fix a problem you cannot prove is happening and that I do not see."
"As I have no children and at my age I am not likely to have any now, why should I give a t#s"
"Ricky, you asked steve what he's going to do about global warming. I suspect (sorry if I got it wrong, Steve) that like me, he's going to do exactly NOTHING,"
"que sera, sera."
Unbelievable absolutely unbelievable
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves
The general opinion seems to be that global warming is a fallacy and if it's not a fallacy then bring it on let's enjoy the nice hot summers.
Let me quote some opinions
"DO ABOUT WHAT? I do not see a problem, I disagree with you and you still insist I fix a problem you cannot prove is happening and that I do not see."
"As I have no children and at my age I am not likely to have any now, why should I give a t#s"
"Ricky, you asked steve what he's going to do about global warming. I suspect (sorry if I got it wrong, Steve) that like me, he's going to do exactly NOTHING,"
"que sera, sera."
Unbelievable absolutely unbelievable
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves
Ricky,
My one gripe with you is you never offer anything constructive !! Everyone else is to blame. I have re read through the posts. What's your position on Nuclear Fuelled Power Stations ???. Should we deny the peoples of India, Pakistan or China the power to change their lives, not in a small insignificant way but real life changing things.
val & frank
My one gripe with you is you never offer anything constructive !! Everyone else is to blame. I have re read through the posts. What's your position on Nuclear Fuelled Power Stations ???. Should we deny the peoples of India, Pakistan or China the power to change their lives, not in a small insignificant way but real life changing things.
val & frank
Ricky
Thanks for showing the world how the greens work.
Please people read the thread, at no time does it state that global warming is not happening. What is does state is this is uncontrolable or the fault of the humans on this planet.
Ricky, you have managed to prove exactly my point. People like you should be made to prove their argument. You have no proof that the human race can change global warming or any proof that we have caused any changes. I have given the calculated figures to show we do not but you still accept that the news man you got your info from is correct..
Thanks, I will now post a link to this thread in all the green forums to show them the kind of stupidity the post
Thanks for showing the world how the greens work.
Please people read the thread, at no time does it state that global warming is not happening. What is does state is this is uncontrolable or the fault of the humans on this planet.
Ricky, you have managed to prove exactly my point. People like you should be made to prove their argument. You have no proof that the human race can change global warming or any proof that we have caused any changes. I have given the calculated figures to show we do not but you still accept that the news man you got your info from is correct..
Thanks, I will now post a link to this thread in all the green forums to show them the kind of stupidity the post
And I will ask again
Ashamed of WHAT? Please show me in facts the proof that this is a problem I can change or even all of us!!!!!!
I would be embarressed if my kids argued with no proof. They are already aware that everything they hear is not true and they have the intelligence to find the truth. If my 10yr old can do this, why is it a problem for you?
Ashamed of WHAT? Please show me in facts the proof that this is a problem I can change or even all of us!!!!!!
I would be embarressed if my kids argued with no proof. They are already aware that everything they hear is not true and they have the intelligence to find the truth. If my 10yr old can do this, why is it a problem for you?
The problem with the Green's is actually implementing anything that works. In the area where I live there are 3 councils, Two Borough Councils and a County Council. Each council introduced rules to prevent people living outside their area using their refuse recycling centre. This was apparently in response to the government charging them so much a ton on the refuse they took in!
This meant that people were having to drive 10 miles to their "own" tip when there was one only a mile away.
People in Britain may have the wish to do their bit but you can put your money on it that the Government and councils will screw it up.
This meant that people were having to drive 10 miles to their "own" tip when there was one only a mile away.
People in Britain may have the wish to do their bit but you can put your money on it that the Government and councils will screw it up.
I agree with Ricky, though I suspect some of the respondents of flippancy at best and provocation at worst.
Global warming is a serious topic; yes there is some dispute as to the science but I suspect few of us here are climate scientists.
Meanwhile, although not everyone agrees that GW exists, or if it does, that we can do anything about it, there is a mountain of evidence that strongly suggests it might be a problem.
Assuming we can do somethjing to help by using less non-renewable energy rather than more, and being wrong, seems to me a better mistake to make than the opposite strategy of being an ostrich and finding out you were wrong when it's to late.
If Lutz's neighbour is going to buy a new car and leave it running while it defrosts, better at least that he buys one that is cleaner and uses less fuel. Rather than be ridiculed, he should be congratulated on at least thinking about it and encouraged to keep it for a long time and use it only when necessary.
The mocking responses seem to come from people who aren't doing anything at all. While I am grateful that I leave in a country where all opinions can be expressed, sometimes it's better to keep quite if you haven't anything helpful to say.
John.
Global warming is a serious topic; yes there is some dispute as to the science but I suspect few of us here are climate scientists.
Meanwhile, although not everyone agrees that GW exists, or if it does, that we can do anything about it, there is a mountain of evidence that strongly suggests it might be a problem.
Assuming we can do somethjing to help by using less non-renewable energy rather than more, and being wrong, seems to me a better mistake to make than the opposite strategy of being an ostrich and finding out you were wrong when it's to late.
If Lutz's neighbour is going to buy a new car and leave it running while it defrosts, better at least that he buys one that is cleaner and uses less fuel. Rather than be ridiculed, he should be congratulated on at least thinking about it and encouraged to keep it for a long time and use it only when necessary.
The mocking responses seem to come from people who aren't doing anything at all. While I am grateful that I leave in a country where all opinions can be expressed, sometimes it's better to keep quite if you haven't anything helpful to say.
John.
Sparkes, take your time to read and digest this
The Earth as an ecosystem is changing, attributable in great part to the effects of globalization and man. More carbon dioxide is now in the atmosphere than has been in the past 650,000 years. This carbon stays in the atmosphere, acts like a warm blanket, and holds in the heat - hence the name 'global warming.'
The reason we exist on this planet is because the earth naturally traps just enough heat in the atmosphere to keep the temperature within a very narrow range - this creates the conditions that give us breathable air, clean water, and the weather we depend on to survive.
Human beings have begun to tip that balance. We've overloaded the atmosphere with heat-trapping gasses from our cars and factories and power plants.
If we don't start fixing the problem now, we're in for devastating changes to our environment. We will experience extreme temperatures, rises in sea levels, and storms of unimaginable destructive fury.
Recently, alarming events that are consistent with scientific predictions about the effects of climate change have become more and more commonplace.
The Earth as an ecosystem is changing, attributable in great part to the effects of globalization and man. More carbon dioxide is now in the atmosphere than has been in the past 650,000 years. This carbon stays in the atmosphere, acts like a warm blanket, and holds in the heat - hence the name 'global warming.'
The reason we exist on this planet is because the earth naturally traps just enough heat in the atmosphere to keep the temperature within a very narrow range - this creates the conditions that give us breathable air, clean water, and the weather we depend on to survive.
Human beings have begun to tip that balance. We've overloaded the atmosphere with heat-trapping gasses from our cars and factories and power plants.
If we don't start fixing the problem now, we're in for devastating changes to our environment. We will experience extreme temperatures, rises in sea levels, and storms of unimaginable destructive fury.
Recently, alarming events that are consistent with scientific predictions about the effects of climate change have become more and more commonplace.
OK You seem to have a problem with this....
You are saying that 0.28% changes the ecology of the earth? Damn,
if that was true then the great forest would have froze the earth!
NOW, as you do not read what I say I will help
WHERE IS THE PROOF???
Come on back up your argument and stop making yourself look silly.
You are saying that 0.28% changes the ecology of the earth? Damn,
if that was true then the great forest would have froze the earth!
NOW, as you do not read what I say I will help
WHERE IS THE PROOF???
Come on back up your argument and stop making yourself look silly.
This Forum is for and about Caravanning not for peddling meddling propaganda about so called green issues.
To constantaly make "green" posts on a "caravan* forum whose users rely on roads and cars for their hobby and also in many cases their daily work is some what provocative and down right rude.
Rick's posts get flippant replies as if he is so concerned he should be spending his time on green forums.
We've heard all his story's and one upmanship jibes of his green efforts in business and his Diesel Jag that he has to have due to his needy image at work and I guess he even has a Caravan. Not that I can understand why! Surely a tent in the back garden would be greener
My wife was recycling paper and cardboard and more in the early 70's and we were using solar power in 1971 and used other now recognised green measures in our homes before Ricky got on his soap box.
I've no doubt that most people here "do their bit" with out being preached to at evey opportunity by a Jag driver.
Green issues are being used as an excuse to tax the UK voters even more whilst business and government continue to pollute day in day out.
If you read your papers today you will see that Brown is the highest taxer ever whilst I see that as predicted stores are moaning that they have not been selling all the goods shipped from China.
The facts are that if you did not have cheap imports many families would be further in the finacial mire overloaded with taxes and British and European production costs.
Coming on this site preaching somewhat dubious "green" policies as though we all live in the dark ages is rude and provocative and shows no consideration for anything else Forum members do in their lives re green or other social issues.
There are members here from all walks of life including the emergency services and nursing, those members come from a branch of society well known for helping and caring for others and often for fund raising for needy causes and I'm sure that they also make a contribution to Green moves as do I and others, and also do the same as my wife and I doing charitable work.
The issue is the constant preachng by Ricky and a few others who seem to make out that they are the saviours of the world whilst I and others here are the brain dead enemy of the environment.
Ricky for one does not learn , and it is about time his provocative and often underlying rudeness was addressed by a MOD 1 , 2 or 3 slapping a ban on him. No doubt he would be able to leave his PC Off for a few weeks and help save on wasted electric thus helping the Environment.
To constantaly make "green" posts on a "caravan* forum whose users rely on roads and cars for their hobby and also in many cases their daily work is some what provocative and down right rude.
Rick's posts get flippant replies as if he is so concerned he should be spending his time on green forums.
We've heard all his story's and one upmanship jibes of his green efforts in business and his Diesel Jag that he has to have due to his needy image at work and I guess he even has a Caravan. Not that I can understand why! Surely a tent in the back garden would be greener
My wife was recycling paper and cardboard and more in the early 70's and we were using solar power in 1971 and used other now recognised green measures in our homes before Ricky got on his soap box.
I've no doubt that most people here "do their bit" with out being preached to at evey opportunity by a Jag driver.
Green issues are being used as an excuse to tax the UK voters even more whilst business and government continue to pollute day in day out.
If you read your papers today you will see that Brown is the highest taxer ever whilst I see that as predicted stores are moaning that they have not been selling all the goods shipped from China.
The facts are that if you did not have cheap imports many families would be further in the finacial mire overloaded with taxes and British and European production costs.
Coming on this site preaching somewhat dubious "green" policies as though we all live in the dark ages is rude and provocative and shows no consideration for anything else Forum members do in their lives re green or other social issues.
There are members here from all walks of life including the emergency services and nursing, those members come from a branch of society well known for helping and caring for others and often for fund raising for needy causes and I'm sure that they also make a contribution to Green moves as do I and others, and also do the same as my wife and I doing charitable work.
The issue is the constant preachng by Ricky and a few others who seem to make out that they are the saviours of the world whilst I and others here are the brain dead enemy of the environment.
Ricky for one does not learn , and it is about time his provocative and often underlying rudeness was addressed by a MOD 1 , 2 or 3 slapping a ban on him. No doubt he would be able to leave his PC Off for a few weeks and help save on wasted electric thus helping the Environment.
Being more of a forum watcher than a contributer, I think that Ricky has a right to put his point of view as much as any one else,. As one who thinks that G. W. is a fact, but do not know what the answer is, I just try to do what I think is right, but also think that everyone else also has that right. I also think that the more this type of subject is discussed in a rational way the better. I would like to wish everyone a Happy Christmas and a safe caravaning New year
Unfortunately, this thread has turned into a debate between the 'greens' and the 'non-greens', something which I never intended. My original point was that if someone is going to follow the 'green' line then surely they ought to be consistent about it. After all, no-one is going to suffer and no additional cost is involved if they'd scraped the ice with the engine turned off, so why waste resources? Just a thought after having installed a cistern a home to use waste water from the washing machine to flush the toilets.
Sorry if I was ranting Lutz - it seems there's no certainty about GW but I don't think that justifies the indifferent or even sneering attitude that I have already encountered a couple of times this week unconnected to this forum, which probably had me pre-sensitised!
I confess I have been starting the engine before scraping this week, like your neighbour - but I do find unless I have some heat on the glass when it's still below freezing it tends to mist and freeze over again as soon as I set off, and the diesel engine is very slow to warm up.
Merry Christmas to all,
John.
I confess I have been starting the engine before scraping this week, like your neighbour - but I do find unless I have some heat on the glass when it's still below freezing it tends to mist and freeze over again as soon as I set off, and the diesel engine is very slow to warm up.
Merry Christmas to all,
John.
The way I see it, is that we live in a small country. True, we are industrialized, but still a drop in the ocean. According to Gordon Brown we are a major player and should be taxed accordingly, but that's another topic in the waiting. I just think that if the greens are to save the earth, concentrating on areas where a real difference can be made, would be more worthwhile. Earths natural cycle is that the more CO2 produced, the more plants thrive. The more plants thrive the less CO2, natures way of balancing the books, you might say. So why has deforestation not been the big topic? Not only does this ruin the land where it occurs, it ruins the Earth ability to regulate itself. We are not just talking about rain forests here, that's bad enough, but forests all over the world are being felled. So, if you really want to make a noise about something, to be able to identify and see your results, get on the backs of the governments and get it stopped or managed.
Blind faith has it's part to play, but being able see where your going with something, is much more rewarding.
Blind faith has it's part to play, but being able see where your going with something, is much more rewarding.
Getting back to the first post, I leave the engine running when scraping the windows too. How else are you meant to de-mist them?? Or perhaps we should all drive around like the pi**ocks we see driving around peering through a small gap cleared on the windscreen putting other road users and pedestrians safety at risk!
gavin, you buy a Range rover with a heated windscreen that has cleared by the time I'm out of my drive!Mind you, I still can't see, cos I've got my head in the sand! (sorry, mod, that was provocative)
Lol, way back in this thread I touched upon the subject of the worlds forests. Unfortunately when either green or global warming is mentioned some can't see beyond the end of their noses and the ugly 4x4 monster rears it's head again and the red mist decends. I doubt if anyone saw my post because of the mist, or maybe my post didn't give them the oppurtunity to defend driving 4x4s. :O(
The fact is that there is something happening to the earth and at a faster scale than some realise. My local brook which supported lots of wildlife, including kingfishers, sticklebacks, minnows etc. is dry and thats after all the rains we've had recently. A place nearer home to you Lol and maybe Mark and Lisa to, a place I fished as a kid, is a river at Ollerton which is now dry. Rufford Lake is only half full, another place I fished as a kid catching Perch and Roach. The feeder stream into the lake where we used to find Stone Loaches and Millers Thumbs is bone dry. Vicars Water at Clipstone is only half full, it's so bad that they have to oxygenate the water in summer to keep the fish alive. Some say the water is seeping away into old mine workings but the nearest old mine to where I live is in the Forest of Dean, 30 miles away.
I'm not getting into this post by telling people to change their ways but for those who dont believe anything is happening are living in cloud cuckoo land and need to open their eyes. Everyday we are losing species of plants to extinction, some which could be used by mankind to fight disease. Species of mammal, reptile, amphibian etc. are becoming extinct at a faster rate.
What the answer is I don't have one, at least not one that the whole world would comply with. At my age I won't be around to say I told you so but the facts show WE ARE KILLING THIS PLANET.
What I ask of people is if someone mentions global warming is to take a deep breath and get it out of their heads that the person is having a go at 4x4s.
The fact is that there is something happening to the earth and at a faster scale than some realise. My local brook which supported lots of wildlife, including kingfishers, sticklebacks, minnows etc. is dry and thats after all the rains we've had recently. A place nearer home to you Lol and maybe Mark and Lisa to, a place I fished as a kid, is a river at Ollerton which is now dry. Rufford Lake is only half full, another place I fished as a kid catching Perch and Roach. The feeder stream into the lake where we used to find Stone Loaches and Millers Thumbs is bone dry. Vicars Water at Clipstone is only half full, it's so bad that they have to oxygenate the water in summer to keep the fish alive. Some say the water is seeping away into old mine workings but the nearest old mine to where I live is in the Forest of Dean, 30 miles away.
I'm not getting into this post by telling people to change their ways but for those who dont believe anything is happening are living in cloud cuckoo land and need to open their eyes. Everyday we are losing species of plants to extinction, some which could be used by mankind to fight disease. Species of mammal, reptile, amphibian etc. are becoming extinct at a faster rate.
What the answer is I don't have one, at least not one that the whole world would comply with. At my age I won't be around to say I told you so but the facts show WE ARE KILLING THIS PLANET.
What I ask of people is if someone mentions global warming is to take a deep breath and get it out of their heads that the person is having a go at 4x4s.
If i could afford a Range Rover, i'd buy a Cheyenne (with heated windows of course) The Range Rover is far too common. Perhaps i could buy a big Jag, not because i like them, but to 'impress' all my clients, sorry, friends,
Gavin.
Gavin.
Hi All,
Remove the emotion from posts about GW, it happens, hence we had an Ice Age. When do you think coal mines were laid down ??
or the oil that people now see as the ruin of us the Jurrasic or Devonian periods.
For godness sake get real it happens
REMEMBER Y2K what a load of bollocks we got pumped at us then !!!
Val & Frank
To everyone,
Hi All,
Remove the emotion from posts about GW, it happens, hence we had an Ice Age. When do you think coal mines were laid down ??
or the oil that people now see as the ruin of us the Jurrasic or Devonian periods.
For godness sake get real it happens
REMEMBER Y2K what a load of bollocks we got pumped at us then !!!
Val & Frank
Hi All,
Remove the emotion from posts about GW, it happens, hence we had an Ice Age. When do you think coal mines were laid down ??
or the oil that people now see as the ruin of us the Jurrasic or Devonian periods.
For godness sake get real it happens
REMEMBER Y2K what a load of bollocks we got pumped at us then !!!
Val & Frank
When I was responsible for vehicle glazing systems we looked at heated windscreens but dropped the idea because they draw so much current that they require at least 24 volt electrics to be adequately efficient and for the same reason, the battery would soon be flat if you tried to deice at standstill before starting the engine. Also, there was too much customer dissatisfaction on account of optical interference caused by the embedded gold wire heating elements.
Ummmm Frank - we are talking about it getting hotter - not colder ;O) keep up with the play man or go sit at the back of the class and write 100 lines - "I must pay attention in the PC Forum and read the threads properly" ;O)
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