Hybrid car

[Oscarmax]

Not my words. However here are the tech specs for the battery.

Hybrid battery
Type Nickel metal-hydride
Nominal voltage 244.8
Number of cells 204
System voltage 650

With that set up you should achieve 35 mpg solo and 1 mile EV

 

[otherclive]

Not my words. However here are the tech specs for the battery.

Hybrid battery
Type Nickel metal-hydride
Nominal voltage 244.8
Number of cells 204
System voltage 650

My stats are:
Nickel metal hydride
Nominal voltage 244.8v
System voltage 650v
Number of modules 34
Capacity6.5 amp hrs
There’s also some with Lithium ion battery

Seems the figures are quite simlar.

 

[ProfJohnL]

It's very difficult to make any meaningful comparisons between different models of Hybrid and Phev's even from the same manufacturer, as the detailed principles of operation and methods used and the sizes of battery, and car are all so different.

Unless your particular car does have a real hybrid defeat mode, there is no simple way of assessing the cars petrol/diesel fuel consumption, becasue the hybrid system will automatically begin to harvest energy when the system detects the need for braking, or collecting engine over run. This even applies to PHEV's. So simply embrace the cars technology as its presented to you, and look at the efficiencies in real world conditions.

For what its worth my own car does tell me what it thinks is my electric only efficiency, in temperatures over 15C I can regularly achieve 3.3M/kWh and today I hit 3.8 but in winter it drops to about 2M/kWh when traveling in town conditions.

 

[Buckman]

With that set up you should achieve 35 mpg solo and 1 mile EV

I know for a fact that close 2 mile is very achievable. I have no idea where they got the 35 mile range unless I am mixed up with the later NX350H or 450H.

 

[Oscarmax]

I know for a fact that close 2 mile is very achievable. I have no idea where they got the 35 mile range unless I am mixed up with the later NX350H or 450H.

The latest Toyota hybrid system are even more efficient, technology just keeps advancing just like computers and mobile phones.

 

[RogerL]

It's very difficult to make any meaningful comparisons between different models of Hybrid and Phev's even from the same manufacturer, as the detailed principles of operation and methods used and the sizes of battery, and car are all so different.

Unless your particular car does have a real hybrid defeat mode, there is no simple way of assessing the cars petrol/diesel fuel consumption, becasue the hybrid system will automatically begin to harvest energy when the system detects the need for braking, or collecting engine over run. This even applies to PHEV's. So simply embrace the cars technology as its presented to you, and look at the efficiencies in real world conditions.

For what its worth my own car does tell me what it thinks is my electric only efficiency, in temperatures over 15C I can regularly achieve 3.3M/kWh and today I hit 3.8 but in winter it drops to about 2M/kWh when traveling in town conditions.

The way the figures are presented are no real help to those considering switching from pure IC to some form of hybrid - especially if economy is their main concern.

I still think that the first official figures were the most useful - steady speed 75mph (120 kph) was a good indication of motorway consumption - steady speed 56 mph (100 kph) was a good indication of what could be achieved if you drove like Miss Daisy - urban test was a good indicator if you did a lot of urban driving - you could then assess your own driving pattern as a mixture of those three.

 

[Buckman]

Most of our driving is to do shopping in the local town which is 10 miles away. Average speed about 50mph due to turning and twisting of A road. Occasionally about once very 6 weeks we may use the motorway. I seem to average just under 38mpg most times as EV mode kicks in frequently.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Most of our driving is to do shopping in the local town which is 10 miles away. Average speed about 50mph due to turning and twisting of A road. Occasionally about once very 6 weeks we may use the motorway. I seem to average just under 38mpg most times as EV mode kicks in frequently.

And that's as it should be,. We have to assume the car manufacturer has done their best to optimise the vehicles behaviour where by it will change its operating mode to suit the way the car is driven.

With a PHEV, the car may preferentially choose the Electric drive until the battery is near empty at which point it switches to the ICE. But it will still be harvesting energy from regenerative braking so you can still receive some significant benefit which helps with efficiency.

Where PHEV's can seem less efficient is if the driver tells the system to use the engine to recharge the battery, rather than using plug in charging. This is inefficient and affects the apparent MPG of fossil fuel.

If you do exhaust a PHEV's battery, it best to simply run in eco mode which will still use regenerative braking to partial recharge the battery which then has some capability of supporting the ICE at times of high demand such as accelerating from standstill.

 

[Oscarmax]

The way the figures are presented are no real help to those considering switching from pure IC to some form of hybrid - especially if economy is their main concern.

I still think that the first official figures were the most useful - steady speed 75mph (120 kph) was a good indication of motorway consumption - steady speed 56 mph (100 kph) was a good indication of what could be achieved if you drove like Miss Daisy - urban test was a good indicator if you did a lot of urban driving - you could then assess your own driving pattern as a mixture of those three.

The only way to obtain a realistic fuel consumption figure in your particular area is a brim to brim fill there are some many different variation to consider, plus an average over a period of time.

 

[Oscarmax]

And that's as it should be,. We have to assume the car manufacturer has done their best to optimise the vehicles behaviour where by it will change its operating mode to suit the way the car is driven.

With a PHEV, the car may preferentially choose the Electric drive until the battery is near empty at which point it switches to the ICE. But it will still be harvesting energy from regenerative braking so you can still receive some significant benefit which helps with efficiency.

Where PHEV's can seem less efficient is if the driver tells the system to use the engine to recharge the battery, rather than using plug in charging. This is inefficient and affects the apparent MPG of fossil fuel.

If you do exhaust a PHEV's battery, it best to simply run in eco mode which will still use regenerative braking to partial recharge the battery which then has some capability of supporting the ICE at times of high demand such as accelerating from standstill.

My charge now mode using the ICE is the work of the Satan, it drops from 50+ to 35/36 mpg approximately 25% I avoid it like the plague.

 

[Buckman]

The only way to obtain a realistic fuel consumption figure in your particular area is a brim to brim fill there are some many different variation to consider, plus an average over a period of time.

Correct and as we do the same trip weekly basically there is very little variation. However on one of the other main roads not too far from our village there is a long straight and generally I floor the car on that stretch.

Although a petrol model I have been told that apparently the car's fuel system has something similar to the DPF in a diesel car called a Petrol Particulate Filter (PPF) and this needs to have the "soot" burned off. I have been told that occasionally it is good to floor it for awhile as with the CVT box you cannot keep the car in a lower gear? Mollycoddling any car is not good for the engine in the long run.

 

[RogerL]

Mollycoddling any car is not good for the engine in the long run.

That's also true for any turbo engine, petrol or diesel - the moveable vanes within the turbo need "exercising" to prevent them seizing up.

 

[otherclive]

Correct and as we do the same trip weekly basically there is very little variation. However on one of the other main roads not too far from our village there is a long straight and generally I floor the car on that stretch.

Although a petrol model I have been told that apparently the car's fuel system has something similar to the DPF in a diesel car called a Petrol Particulate Filter (PPF) and this needs to have the "soot" burned off. I have been told that occasionally it is good to floor it for awhile as with the CVT box you cannot keep the car in a lower gear? Mollycoddling any car is not good for the engine in the long run.

Can’t you drop it into Manual mode where you can get it to hold a lower ratio and up the revs? Useful for going down hills too.

 

[Buckman]

Can’t you drop it into Manual mode where you can get it to hold a lower ratio and up the revs? Useful for going down hills too.

I cannot select manual on the Lexus, but apparently I can use the paddle switches for a lower gear. Never used them on this car and also previous cars so no idea. Previous cars I simply moved the gear lever to Manual as it was a torque box.

 

[otherclive]

I cannot select manual on the Lexus, but apparently I can use the paddle switches for a lower gear. Never used them on this car and also previous cars so no idea. Previous cars I simply moved the gear lever to Manual as it was a torque box.

Mine I just move the gear-lever towards me when in Drive, then backwards or forwards as required. The “pseudo “ gear then shows on the dash display. Can’t over rev it as it will change up if you exceed pre set rev limit. Only time I tend use it is downhill gradients.

 

[GaryB]

I just look at the phone app for mine, it does 50 miles-ish in EV mode only and returned 93mpg (combined running in auto-hybrid) last week driving back from Wrexham. That's about as in-depth as I go with economy monitoring, I've got far too much other stuff to do!

 

[Oscarmax]

At this moment in time Hybrids and PHEV are the way forward good fuel economy both solo and towing and no range anxiety.

 

[RogerL]

At this moment in time Hybrids and PHEV are the way forward good fuel economy both solo and towing and no range anxiety.

I can see that switching from an ordinary diesel to a diesel PHEV will give an improvement in fuel economy - but there are very few diesel PHEVs available.

Switching from a diesel to a petrol PHEV may not give any improvement in economy - or have petrol engines miraculously started to match diesels?

 

[otherclive]

I can see that switching from an ordinary diesel to a diesel PHEV will give an improvement in fuel economy - but there are very few diesel PHEVs available.

Switching from a diesel to a petrol PHEV may not give any improvement in economy - or have petrol engines miraculously started to match diesels?

Oscar said “ good fuel economy” but Gary’s fuel consumption of 93 mpg on a recent trip does show that his PHEV petrol exhibits very good fuel economy. Probably much better than the straight forward diesel A6 could achieve. So yes petrol combined with electric have started to match diesels. My Toyota hybrid is better solo than my 2.0 litre Superb, or XC70 2.4 D5. I cannot compare with towing as I no longer tow.

 

[ProfJohnL]

I can see that switching from an ordinary diesel to a diesel PHEV will give an improvement in fuel economy - but there are very few diesel PHEVs available.

Switching from a diesel to a petrol PHEV may not give any improvement in economy - or have petrol engines miraculously started to match diesels?

I think the evidence is that a well developed petrol PHEV is very much capable of exceeding the efficiency of a non hybrid diesel. The benefit of the electric motor assisting a petrol engine can help to match the torque of a similar sized diesel vehicle. Couple that to the lower cost of petrol compared to diesel in my view certainly can make Petrol Hybrids are a serious alternative to diesel for cars.

 

[GaryB]

I think the evidence is that a well developed petrol PHEV is very much capable of exceeding the efficiency of a non hybrid diesel. The benefit of the electric motor assisting a petrol engine can help to match the torque of a similar sized diesel vehicle. Couple that to the lower cost of petrol compared to diesel in my view certainly can make Petrol Hybrids are a serious alternative to diesel for cars.

Absolutely. My last diesel was a 2018 Volvo V90 D4. I switched that to a 2022 Volvo V90 B4 (petrol MILD hybrid) in 2022 when the price of diesel went through the roof, switching to my Audi A6 plug-in hybrid in October last year (due to the Volvo's unreliability). I drive around 14,000 miles a year, probably around 1,500 towing a caravan or trailer and a petrol hybrid has no negatives compared to a diesel. I haven't "done the maths" but suspect that with the delta between the cost of petrol and diesel and the excellent economy I'm better off financially than if I ran a diesel.

I've had some great diesels, but for me, they're consigned to history.

 

[Devonisheaven]

Switching from a diesel to a petrol PHEV may not give any improvement in economy - or have petrol engines miraculously started to match diesels?

I did just that, and the difference in running cost is huge! We charge at night, 12:00 - 05:00, on an EV rate, and have not put any petrol in the car since the 20th March, and still have half a tank of petrol

But it is horses for courses, it suits us, but it may not suit everyone. We are not high mileage users, only averaging around 550 miles a month, high milers who cannot charge every day may not find it suitable for them, but for us a PHEV is amazing. Since refuelling we are showing 223 mpg, and being a 263bhp car, it is no slouch.

 

[Devonisheaven]

I cannot select manual on the Lexus, but apparently I can use the paddle switches for a lower gear. Never used them on this car and also previous cars so no idea. Previous cars I simply moved the gear lever to Manual as it was a torque box.

Using the paddles is exactly the same thing, but far more convenient. So not really sure what you mean by “ cannot select manual on the Lexus” if you have paddles, as does my car, to can do just that.

 

[Devonisheaven]

I think the evidence is that a well developed petrol PHEV is very much capable of exceeding the efficiency of a non hybrid diesel. The benefit of the electric motor assisting a petrol engine can help to match the torque of a similar sized diesel vehicle. Couple that to the lower cost of petrol compared to diesel in my view certainly can make Petrol Hybrids are a serious alternative to diesel for cars.

^^^This!

For our use, they are a hugely better alternative. 👍

 

[Buckman]

I think the evidence is that a well developed petrol PHEV is very much capable of exceeding the efficiency of a non hybrid diesel. The benefit of the electric motor assisting a petrol engine can help to match the torque of a similar sized diesel vehicle. Couple that to the lower cost of petrol compared to diesel in my view certainly can make Petrol Hybrids are a serious alternative to diesel for cars.

I would think that if towing there will be zero difference as the car will probably never switch to EV mode? In addition, many hybrids and PHEV have a much lower towing ratio than the same ICE engine. Not sure if this is the same for a diesel PHEV?