Important changes to the forum

[SHaines]

Hey folks,

As a result of recent changes within the UK Online Safety Act, we're going to be disabling direct messages between members of the forum. You'll still be able to contact our Administrators and our Moderators to address issues or raise concerns, but posts between regular community members will be permanently disabled very soon (some things need to be put in place first).

We also recognize that there is a marketplace on this forum where individual members communicate via direct message. Without the ability to send those messages, the forum is not going to be able to continue supporting the marketplace, so it will also be closed along with direct messages. If you're actively using the marketplace, please find an alternate method of communication before messaging other forum members is disabled.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause for members of the community and appreciate your patience as we adapt to keep in line with the law with the least impact on your experience.

Thanks very much

 

[Buckman]

Unbelievable but guess it was coming!

 

[GUMPY]

That's the first forum I use to do this. I wonder how the others are going to deal with it.

 

[SHaines]

That's the first forum I use to do this. I wonder how the others are going to deal with it.

I suspect some of the largest will follow suit soon, while others may adopt a third party age verification system and require uploading of passports or photo ID to confirm age before allowing people to sign up.

 

[GUMPY]

I think it will harm a lot of forums.
As usual a badly thought out piece of law by people who don't understand the consequences of what has been put in place.
I must confess I didn't think it would affect forums but then I haven't read the document.
I suppose it will affect anything that has a DM system 😱

 

[RogerL]

Another forum I used introduced message restrictions for under 18s back in June, directly because of the Online Safety Act, but their age verification measures were a step too far for me so I was classified as under 18 and restricted.

A couple of other forums, which are US based, are just ignoring UK legislation.

My view is that this act won't stop under 18s cheating to "prove" their age but will adversely impact many legitimate over-18s. It's just badly implemented legislation although the intentions are laudable.

 

[RogerL]

A thought for the Administrators - why not allow messaging for any contributor who registered more than 18 years ago - as by definition they must be over 18.

 

[Dustydog]

A very sad day for freedom. We have become such a woke society we can’t t even be ordinary adults anymore.😥

Surely it must be obvious that this old dog is “out of short trousers”!
I’m one who does talk to others occasionally and am not happy my freedom is being compromised. BTW such PMs are to this day totally confidential and no real names or addresses accessible.

Rant over!

 

[Woodentop]

I guess the rules will also kill off Usenet? Very sad.

 

[GUMPY]

I guess the rules will also kill off Usenet? Very sad.

Where some of us started 😎

Who remembers
uk.rec.sheds 🤔

 

[Buckman]

It is all in the name of stifling free speech by our current masters. Considering hundreds of thousands of people died in two world wars so that we could have freedom of speech, this is very sad.

 

[RogerL]

It is all in the name of stifling free speech by our current masters. Considering hundreds of thousands of people died in two world wars so that we could have freedom of speech, this is very sad.

It's nothing to do with stifling free speech - it's all to do with protecting children.

The idea that anyone can hide behind the anonimity of the internet and say what they want isn't a principle that can be defended.

 

[Buckman]

It's nothing to do with stifling free speech - it's all to do with protecting children.

The idea that anyone can hide behind the anonimity of the internet and say what they want isn't a principle that can be defended.

Sorry I strongly disagree that it is mainly for children as it involves all of us and also stifles free speech for adults. If for example amongst other things, you mention voyagers arriving at our shores and where they will be staying your have get a visit from a uniformed person. This has already been happening.

 

[rich0805]

Sorry I strongly disagree that it is mainly for children as it involves all of us and also stifles free speech for adults. If for example amongst other things, you mention voyagers arriving at our shores and where they will be staying your have get a visit from a uniformed person. This has already been happening.

What's that got to do with the online safety act?

 

[SHaines]

We do still want to be cognizant that discussing the broader political repercussions of the law is still outside what this forum is for, so please be respectful of each other as we navigate challenging times.

 

[otherclive]

Sorry I strongly disagree that it is mainly for children as it involves all of us and also stifles free speech for adults. If for example amongst other things, you mention voyagers arriving at our shores and where they will be staying your have get a visit from a uniformed person. This has already been happening.

It’s for protecting children from both their peers, or from older persons, so whilst it’s something that affects us wrt the loss of private messaging I know where my priorities lie.

Some online services legal outlets seem to be saying that private messaging by its very nature is private, and forum owners have no visibility on what’s being communicated, and the two parties are invariably using pseudonyms. Hence the reason why PM facilities are or are likely to be withdrawn from Forums.

 

[Buckman]

It’s for protecting children from both their peers, or from older persons, so whilst it’s something that affects us wrt the loss of private messaging I know where my priorities lie.

Some online services legal outlets seem to be saying that private messaging by its very nature is private, and forum owners have no visibility on what’s being communicated, and the two parties are invariably using pseudonyms. Hence the reason why PM facilities are or are likely to be withdrawn from Forums.

I have zero objection to the children safety aspect, but unfortunately the legislation encompasses all of us if we discuss something else unrelated to children, but what they assume to be offensive.

I am unsure how they are going to differentiate between a child and an adult in many cases unless they monitor everyone's posts which they can only do if using AI. As we now AI is not that intelligent to differentiate. A child could easily use a parent's card etc to pass themselves off as an adult. Many of us probably did similar when in our teens and got away with it!

 

[otherclive]

I have zero objection to the children safety aspect, but unfortunately the legislation encompasses all of us if we discuss something else unrelated to children, but what they assume to be offensive.

I am unsure how they are going to differentiate between a child and an adult in many cases unless they monitor everyone's posts which they can only do if using AI. As we now AI is not that intelligent to differentiate. A child could easily use a parent's card etc to pass themselves off as an adult. Many of us probably did similar when in our teens and got away with it!

For Forum private messaging the owners have no visibility or control on the material being communicated. Hence they potentially risk infringing the OSA, particularly if there’s a risk, albeit sleight, if that communication becoming public.

OFCOM guidance is here, plus HMG have a very good website. I’m afraid as technology, and social media etc have now inextricably woven themselves into our daily lives. There are positives and there are negatives.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/guidance-on-content-communicated-publicly-and-privately-under-the-online-safety-act.pdf?v=388093#:~:text=Those%20users%20to%20whom%20User,to%20have%20their%20identifying%20information.&text=available%20to%20them.,make%20in%20light%20of%20this.

 

[Dustydog]

I really must be missing something.

So I choose as a mature adult to PM Buckman or another .
Their location , contact address etc is absolutely private, I can’t see it nor they mine. They don’t know my real name , just DD.

In fact it is well documented I and others have used PM to talk to other Forumites over many many years which resulted in the Woosies and the infamous Woosiefests.

What is it that is trying to be protected or hidden?

Perhaps I’ve had my day😵‍💫😵‍💫🙃

 

[Jcloughie]

I have always been an advocate of personal verified ID. If it was in existence, it might be a less intrusive method of age identification for legitimate platforms.

John

 

[Jcloughie]

I really must be missing something.
So I choose as a mature adult to PM Buckman or another
Their location , contact address etc is absolutely private, I can’t see it.
What is it that is trying to be protected or hidden?

Perhaps I’ve had my day😵‍💫😵‍💫🙃

It is the potential concern that you might be trying to groom Buckman to succumb to your will.

On many other platforms populated by children it’s predators can take their pick.

I am in favour of the motive behind the act. But must admit I have not studied the detail.

John

 

[otherclive]

I really must be missing something.
So I choose as a mature adult to PM Buckman or another
Their location , contact address etc is absolutely private, I can’t see it.
What is it that is trying to be protected or hidden?

Perhaps I’ve had my day😵‍💫😵‍💫🙃

Best have read of OFCOM and HMG websites which cover “private or public” communications. I agree that something sent to you by me via PM isn’t visible in normal Forum posts which could see by young people. Your sender name is anonymous as mine would be to you. But say you wrote something that contravenes OSA but which I decided to copy the text and to forward elsewhere it become public. It could be used for illegal action wrt OSA. A low risk I admit but a risk nevertheless. If it’s any comfort similar legislation the Kids Online Safety Act is progressing in the US. Interesting if it becomes law.

 

[RogerL]

I really must be missing something.

So I choose as a mature adult to PM Buckman or another .
Their location , contact address etc is absolutely private, I can’t see it nor they mine. They don’t know my real name , just DD.

In fact it is well documented I and others have used PM to talk to other Forumites over many many years which resulted in the Woosies and the infamous Woosiefests.

What is it that is trying to be protected or hidden?

Perhaps I’ve had my day😵‍💫😵‍💫🙃

There isn't an issue with private messaging between adults - the potential problem arises that under-18s could join the forum and then a malevolent adult member send them inappropriate messages which the moderators couldn't see.

One way round this is for forums/websites to introduce more stringent age verification checks but this can become a significant effort and/or cost.

 

[RogerL]

I have always been an advocate of personal verified ID. If it was in existence, it might be a less intrusive method of age identification for legitimate platforms.

John

Even that can be troublesome - not everyone has photo-id or a visual presence on the internet - banking details can be used to check age but there's a cost if using 3rd parties and some people don't want to show their banking details to a non-babking website.

 

[otherclive]

There isn't an issue with private messaging between adults - the potential problem arises that under-18s could join the forum and then a malevolent adult member send them inappropriate messages which the moderators couldn't see.

One way round this is for forums/websites to introduce more stringent age verification checks but this can become a significant effort and/or cost.

The OSA scope doesn’t just cover children. Someone could join a forum then use private messaging to target another member. Low likelihood for a caravan forum I admit. But feasible nevertheless.