Is 20 plenty?

[Dustydog]

I said the same as Buckman on the potential pollution aspect. I based this on the fact the engine in a lower gear at 20 mph will probably travel more Piston feet, more combustion hence more pollution for any given distance. A finite point perhaps.
The police don’t have the manpower. I guess more Community speed Watch groups will appear.
There are plenty of rural roads which have been 30mph for decades without issues. Wales has gone far too far imo .

 

[Jcloughie]

The speed ramp and the big "20" on the road surface might suggest a speed restriction

If a 20mph speed limit saves lives I'm all for it. I don't see how anyone can argue against it

I did not, in fact, I argue for it in my post, but in the right places. Why, in this case, are traditional 20 mph signs not put at the entrance to the road in mandatory shape and colour.

The colours paved area with associated bollards is a crossing point but does not have the same status as a zebra crossing. It’s sim is to alert the driver to the fact there may be people and children wanting to cross the road, and a driver can show consideration to let them cross. Such crossing points are placed near some of our local schools that are on 30 mph. feeder roads to residential areas which are quiet and don’t carry much traffic. The features seem to work well and do alert your consciousness especially at school times.

I understand and accept that. But in the case of a zebra it is clear cut. But these shaded areas are subjective from a motorist's and a pedestrian's point of view.

Entering Gloucester, there is a section that is about 20 plus metres wide. Even respectful motorist get trapped in the middle while trying to give way to pedestrians.

Strangely, to reinforce my point I went to post a picture from Google Earth. It now shows a zebra. So it is either many years old, or they have gone back to a zebra. My wife walked across it last week and did not even notice.

The markings on the blocked paved area are part of Google Street View. Zoom out on Street View and the markings also drop down. But that apart - there's no indication for any sort of priority.

Thanks, I have not noticed that before.

John

 

[otherclive]

If it's 20, it's 20, who am I to argue? I regularly travel through Rosset near Wrexham that has a 20mph stretch along the main road, I set the cruise control and let the cyclists overtake me!

BUT, being good and sticking to the limit has caused more than a handful of "road rage" incidents for me from Mr Impatient and his army of purple-necked mates, so although it isn't viable, I'd like to see average speed cameras in all restricted zones to ensure all comply!

In Coventry there are main roads and feeder roads with average speed cameras controlling the area. These can be on 20/30 or 40 mph roads. Seems to work well and keep “ purple necks” at bay.

 

[otherclive]

I said the same as Buckman on the potential pollution aspect. I based this on the fact the engine in a lower gear at 20 mph will probably travel more Piston feet, more combustion hence more pollution for any given distance. A finite point perhaps.
The police don’t have the manpower. I guess more Community speed Watch groups will appear.
There are plenty of rural roads which have been 30mph for decades without issues. Wales has gone far too far imo .

What powers if any do Community Speed Watch have?

 

[Dustydog]

Meanwhile the Wales Blade-runners have been busy Grym i'r bobl

 

[woodsieboy]

From memory I think that crossing has always been a zebra in Gloucester if it is the one at the end of Southgate Street in the shared space,which although shared allows pedestrians priority

 

[Challenger]

What powers if any do Community Speed Watch have?

They return data on speeds to the Police. Repeat offenders will recieve a lettr, and further offending will lead to a visit from an Officer with 'some words of advice'.
If that doesn't work.....

 

[otherclive]

They return data on speeds to the Police. Repeat offenders will recieve a lettr, and further offending will lead to a visit from an Officer with 'some words of advice'.
If that doesn't work.....

Here’s a typical Speedwatch approach described by Bedfordshire police. Interesting in that the force had similar problems to Wiltshire in that resources are not infinite and have to be allocated to best effect. In Wiltshire a local Bridgewatch team looked out for HGVs exceeding the town bridge weight limit. The police did not have resources to action all of the offences. So somehow the volunteers were co-opted to undertake the admin thus relieving the police of most of that work except for the final action of issuing the FPN.

https://www.beds.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/wsi/watch-schemes-initiatives/community-speedwatch/cswb/csw-guide/

 

[Jcloughie]

From memory I think that crossing has always been a zebra in Gloucester if it is the one at the end of Southgate Street in the shared space,which although shared allows pedestrians priority

It is the one in Southgate. It feeds from the Mall through to the old town and can be busy.

For many years it has simply been a different colored tarmac. The Google picture I put up is either very old or very new. It has been complained about for a long time. I rarely drive that way, but might do it just to see what the situation is now.

The street view also shows the zebra. I guess the authorities must have listened to the complaints. The previous ‘free for all’ was dangerous.




John

 

[ProfJohnL]

No! No flashing lights. Just the warning notices at each end of the roads. A stranger to the area can all so easily turn into the road without seeing the signs - never mind checking the time of day. The cameras are at mid-point.

View attachment 5519

I agree the signage is bad, as there is a lot of information to take in, especially as the face of the sign is not easy to see from the main road if your driving. Unfortunately failure to observe a sign would be driving without due care and attention.

Poulton vs Speed
In terms of a pollution comparison between 20 and 30 mph, at a constant speed its the amount of energy needed to maintain the speed, and that will be the same regardless of what gear your in. Whilst using a lower gear will mean the engine is turning over faster to maintain the same speed, but becasue of the improved mechanical advantage a low gear gives an engine it will use less fuel for each rotation of the engine. Consequently there will be very little difference for steady state speeds, But during acceleration, less fuel will be used as you need less kinetic energy to accelerate to 20 compared to 30. On balance I would expect less fuel to be used, and that also directly relates to the levels of pollution created. In short 20 is better than 30mph as far as fuel and pollution is concerned.

 

[otherclive]

It is the one in Southgate. It feeds from the Mall through to the old town and can be busy.

For many years it has simply been a different colored tarmac. The Google picture I put up is either very old or very new. It has been complained about for a long time. I rarely drive that way, but might do it just to see what the situation is now.

The street view also shows the zebra. I guess the authorities must have listened to the complaints. The previous ‘free for all’ was dangerous.

View attachment 5527


John

Where we last lived the town council wanted to block pave the historic Center and remove all riad markings to create a shared space for all users. The theory is that having no directional indications or pavements etc creates uncertainty, and uncertainty leads to more care being taken in transiting the area. It didn’t go down well with residents on two counts. Firstly because of congestion and narrow historic streets traffic moves very slowly and accidents between pedestrians and cyclists or motorists were thankfully very rare and minor. Secondly on a more pragmatic note residents noted that where the council had introduced block pavers into permissive. crossing points they had started to break away and the repairs were just dollops of asphalt which looked awful. No one wanted that appearance in the historic Center. Local referendum voted the proposal down with a thumping majority against shared space.

 

[woodsieboy]

Like you I try to avoid the area, we have very few customers in the centre of Gloucester now, and the ones we have on the outskirts, Longlevens Churchdown Brockworth etc are reporting increased trade since Covid,the consensus seems to be that people do not enjoy visiting the centre and have moved their custom to the outskirts.

 

[Jcloughie]

Where we last lived the town council wanted to block pave the historic Center and remove all riad markings to create a shared space for all users. The theory is that having no directional indications or pavements etc creates uncertainty, and uncertainty leads to more care being taken in transiting the area. It didn’t go down well with residents on two counts. Firstly because of congestion and narrow historic streets traffic moves very slowly and accidents between pedestrians and cyclists or motorists were thankfully very rare and minor. Secondly on a more pragmatic note residents noted that where the council had introduced block pavers into permissive. crossing points they had started to break away and the repairs were just dollops of asphalt which looked awful. No one wanted that appearance in the historic Center. Local referendum voted the proposal down with a thumping majority against shared space.

Not ever doing so before, I have just looked up the legalities of the so called ‘shared areas’. The hope for them is everything you say. But it appears it is the motorist that has the presidance.

I would prefer matters to be clear cut. However, they do seem to work for the most part.

John

 

[Challenger]

 

[shouldknowbettor]

We do have some 20 limits here in Scotland, but most seem to be in areas where the traffic is dense and you are usually unable to seriously exceed this, so I am not sure if a more extensive limit will work.

The entirety of the borders is 20 where you're getting a 30 limit normally. Works fine. I am up there alot (I live just south of the border) and I've never noticed it causing issues, and it makes for more pleasant walking around. I'd be all for it being rolled out UK wide.

 

[GaryB]

I was in Wrexham today, the main road leading into the industrial estate has changed, going out of the estate is now 20, the opposite direction into the estate is still 30!

 

[GaryB]

 

[Challenger]

 

[Jcloughie]

Here is some clarity.

There seems to be some significant confusion here ahead of the Speed Limit change and so, I thought I would help by briefly explaining how the change works so that there can be no confusion:
Any roads that were previously 30 will now be 20 apart from the roads that aren't going to be 20, which will still remain as 30. When you see street lights you have to
assume that the roads will be 20 even if the signs still say 30 because, despite the signs saying 30, the roads could be 20, apart from, of course, the roads (as explained above) which will remain 30 despite them being 20. It's also important to remember that there will still be a number of roads which despite them having streetlights will not be 20, and in these cases they could be 30, 40, 50, 60 or even 70, however, always bear in mind that even if the signs on these roads still state 30 they could, of course, be 20 unless they are one of the roads that have been designated 30, in which case the 20 restriction will not apply.
I trust that clarifies. It's really not difficult lol!

(Pinched)..

Hope this helps.

John

 

[Challenger]

 

[Robert_374373903]

From 0730 till around 0930 our traffic is about 3 mph owing to the children going to three schools in our road, After 5pm it sounds more like F1 at times which is mad as they can only go 200 yds before a junction. I wish we had speed cameras to catch these people. One thing I have seen is at the zebra crossing the children do not always wait to make sure the vehicle is going stop so having a lower mph would help at these times.