Is it just me? Slight snaking on Motorways lane 1

[JB1]

Hi all anyone else experiencing this?
Having just got back from a short break the 3Rd time towing my new to me caravan, I have I think narrowed down the slight swaying I have experienced, to i think the lorry groves/ troughs worn in lane 1 on some dual carriageways and most motorways. I’ve towed many different trailers and 5 different caravans over 40+ years and never previously experienced this movement I get with my latest caravan so much. I don’t appear to get the same movement in any other lane nor single carriageways roads. Is it possible the caravan is dipping in and out the worn lorry tracks giving a similar feeling to very slight snaking? I’m towing a Swift 550 single axel with a t31 2012 Nissan xtrail 2.0 diesel it should be a reasonable match? I’ve tried slightly different nose weights I’m not overly loaded just stuff for two adults porch awing etc tyre pressure checked, caravan recently serviced ? .
Any thoughts.

 

[ProfJohnL]

There several documented reports about "tramlining" where caravans seem to exhibit a type of snaking, and it does seem to be predominantly on the near side lane of motorways, So my suspicion is you have identified the culprit.

 

[otherclive]

If it predominantly affects the outfit when in Lane 1 there’s a strong chance it’s caused by the tramline grooves. I had it affect a BMW when solo on my regular commute into and out of Bristol on the M4. When the carriageway was resurfaced the effect disappeared.

 

[Dustydog]

Do you have ATS? When you feel the “sway” how much steering input is required? 90% of my towing is in lane one with the HGVs . No problem

 

[davyayr]

Tramlining in lane one while towing a caravan is very common, even with ATS.
Its like driving on a road surface shaped like a "W".
The track of a caravan doesn't match LGV tyre tracks.
So if you are driving along the centre of the lane, you are effectively straddling the centre high peak of the "W". The slightest moment left or right causes that caravan wheel to go into the low section of the "W". You correct it and it goes the opposite way.
Try driving a little more left of centre and see how that goes.
ATS wont be active when swaying is minor. It's there for severe swaying. You could call it ABS for caravans.
ABS only comes on is serious situations. ATS is the same.
If you feel a sway starting, wait until you have to correct to the left and keep left correction on a little longer.
Better to slightly enter hard shoulder, if there is one, that to get too close to lane 2, especially if a 44 tonne artic or coach is passing. Suction can be disastrous.
Hope this helps.

 

[Mr Plodd]

I get the tramlining effect quite often, but ONLY in lane one of certain motorways. Its a known thing and whilst it can be disconcerting its nothing to worry about. The "trick" is to not try and fight against it, just let the caravan get on with what it wants to do. As others have said, try driving just off the hard shoulder, that should position your wheels away from the tramlines.

 

[JB1]

Do you have ATS? When you feel the “sway” how much steering input is required? 90% of my towing is in lane one with the HGVs . No problem

Hi Dusty thanks for reply I don’t have ATS I try not to put any steering input I think this would increase the issue.

 

[JB1]

Thanks to all replies, pretty mush as I thought, strange how I’ve not really experienced this before when towing maybe my previous caravan which was lighter and sat lower to the ground did not convey the movement to the car as much? At least it not just me experiencing this movement.
thanks again.

 

[Buckman]

On M5 between jn12 and 13 the tramlines were very bad at one point. We had overtaken a HGV and were pulling back in when it caught the caravan. It took us across 3 lanes. Luckily we were towing a 1400kg caravan with a Volvo S80 so weight ratio was more than adequate.

My advanced driver training kicked in and initially I lifted my foot off the pedal to slow down and then accelerated slightly and this pulled the caravan straight. This all took place in probably less than 3 seconds and I acted instinctively.

Very scary and change of underpants.

 

[izzy]

Had the tramline effect but only in a van and it has never affected our relatively small caravan.
But I have noticed that on a worn motorway surface the tramlines are worse at the start of a long ascent, I think this is the effect of HGVs accelerating for the hill or maybe just the weight shift (others will know)
The point is that if the sway gets worse at these points then it is case proven

 

[Raywood]

It is not something I have noticed when towing, although once I did have some movement from the caravan for no apparent reason, so may be that was it. I tend to drive just under 60 with the caravan and do not now if speed is a factor.

 

[RogerL]

It's of little or no consolation that these tramlines are less apparent than they used to be - they started when HGVs increased from 38 tonnes to 44 tonnes and artic trailers changed from two axles with twin wheels to three axles with single wheels - this reduced the axle loading but also concentrated the tyre loadings into a narrower area.

As motorway surfaces are rebuilt, they do use a stronger foundation which takes the newer HGV design into account but some motorways are still on their original foundations despite the top layer having changed several times.

 

[ProfJohnL]

One comment has suggested that he pulled out of a snake by accelerating. This notion is a dangerous old wives tale.

There are plenty of reliable sources that will confirm accelerating out of a snake is the wrong thing to do.

If you have exceeded the outfit's stability limit, it means the outfits kinetic energy due to motion is beyond the drivers and tow vehicles ability to manage it safely. To reduce the excess energy level you need to reduce speed gently. unti full control is restored.

If a trailer is still dancing around, adding speed is the worst thing you can do.

It's almost certain that when someone says they've pulled the outfit straight by accelerating, the conditions that caused the snake have passed and are no longer acting to upset the outfit by luck rather than judgement.

 

[Buckman]

One comment has suggested that he pulled out of a snake by accelerating. This notion is a dangerous old wives tale.

There are plenty of reliable sources that will confirm accelerating out of a snake is the wrong thing to do.

If you have exceeded the outfit's stability limit, it means the outfits kinetic energy due to motion is beyond the drivers and tow vehicles ability to manage it safely. To reduce the excess energy level you need to reduce speed gently. unti full control is restored.

If a trailer is still dancing around, adding speed is the worst thing you can do.

It's almost certain that when someone says they've pulled the outfit straight by accelerating, the conditions that caused the snake have passed and are no longer acting to upset the outfit by luck rather than judgement.

It was me that suggested it and I was not aware that you were in the vehicle with me and that you have an advanced driving licence? I am talking from experience and NOT so called reliable sources. I also mentioned for very good reason that I had driver training to a very high standard.

When slowing down the snake lessen and by very gently accelerating it pulled the caravan straight. Again I am talking from personal experience! At no time did I advise anyone else to try the same.

 

[Mr Plodd]

If travelling at 60 on a motorway, in top gear, whilst towing a tonne plus of caravan. the amount of power available to accelerate, in a few seconds, to possibly conteract a snake, is extremely minimal.
If you don't believe me try flooring your car (whilst solo) at 60 in top gear and see just how long it takes to increase your speed by even 2 mph!
There is no way on the planet you can accelerate quickly enough to stand any chance of pulling a car and caravan straight quickly enough to defeat a snake. Just look at the videos of disastrous snakes to see just how quickly they happen.
An important thing to remember is to NOT try and counteract any snake, you will simply make things worse by increasing tge pendulum effect. hold the steering straight and ease off the power.

 

[Buckman]

If travelling at 60 on a motorway, in top gear, whilst towing a tonne plus of caravan. the amount of power available to accelerate, in a few seconds, to possibly conteract a snake, is extremely minimal.
If you don't believe me try flooring your car (whilst solo) at 60 in top gear and see just how long it takes to increase your speed by even 2 mph!
There is no way on the planet you can accelerate quickly enough to stand any chance of pulling a car and caravan straight quickly enough to defeat a snake. Just look at the videos of disastrous snakes to see just how quickly they happen.
An important thing to remember is to NOT try and counteract any snake, you will simply make things worse by increasing tge pendulum effect. hold the steering straight and ease off the power.

I would think that a lot depends on the vehicle in my case a S80, probably weighing close to 1800kg, that is towing the caravan and the weight of the caravan. As said slowing down reduced the snake considerably and at that point I gently accelerated as by that time my speed had probably dropped to under 50mph. It was enough to stop the caravan snaking.

Maybe co-incidence, but it worked for me however it may not work for another driver with a different combination. You learn a lot when travelling on gravel roads at +50mph with a trailer in tow.

 

[otherclive]

The acceleration wasn’t a contributing factor to controlling the snake, it was speed reduction that helped regain outfit stability and composure. The gentle acceleration was necessary to realign the outfit and regain traffic flow speed.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Once stability has been regained, there should be no need to accelerate "realign" the outfit it should follow naturally.

 

[otherclive]

Once stability has been regained, there should be no need to accelerate "realign" the outfit it should follow naturally.

If you need to reorient the outfit and increase speed to that of the traffic flow the outfit has to accelerate to increase speed. Your definition of “ accelerate “ seems too narrow.

 

[ProfJohnL]

OK, Did you mean the driver may need to accelerate to rejoin the normal traffic flow, AFTER the snake has been controlled, not as part of the action to regain control, That wasn't clear from your post.

 

[Parksy]

The thread is again being side tracked by a silly meaningless discussion about an incident that none of us were present at, and couldn't possibly know the facts about.
It's not generally recommended to accelerate during a trailer snake incident.
The accepted wisdom is to not make heavy brake, acceleration or steering inputs, but to allow the road speed to bleed off in order to regain control during a loss of control and stability.
Correct loading, good car and caravan tyre maintenance and an awareness of speed and road conditions should in most cases avoid an unpleasant situation from arising.

 

[Buckman]

The thread is again being side tracked by a silly meaningless discussion about an incident that none of us were present at, and couldn't possibly know the facts about.
It's not generally recommended to accelerate during a trailer snake incident.
The accepted wisdom is to not make heavy brake, acceleration or steering inputs, but to allow the road speed to bleed off in order to regain control during a loss of control and stability.
Correct loading, good car and caravan tyre maintenance and an awareness of speed and road conditions should in most cases avoid an unpleasant situation from arising.

Thank you and you are correct.

 

[Kevin M]

Going back to the tram lining, in my experience of towing (28years), it’s something you will get on a lot of the inside lanes and whilst unpleasant, try and relax.
For me, the worst was on the A34 until it was resurfaced.
When I was towing with a lighter Citroen, the effect seemed worse, now with either my Shogun or Ford Ranger, the effect is still there but doesn’t feel so serious.
Relax, watch your speed and nose weight and enjoy your vanning.

Kev

 

[Dustydog]

Today travelled the A1M, M18, M1, A42, M42 & M5. No indication of any tramline effect. I genuinely believe a TA is not susceptible to these symptoms.

 

[RogerL]

Today travelled the A1M, M18, M1, A42, M42 & M5. No indication of any tramline effect. I genuinely believe a TA is not susceptible to these symptoms.

I believe those motorways have all had major work done fairly recently and cope with modern artics without creating the tramlines.

I can't think of a reaaon why twin axle caravans are less susceptible than single axles.