IS IT OK TO TUBULAR HEAT VAN INSTEAD OF DRAINING DOWN??

[Damian]

Having been called out fix several Carver water heaters this season, which have mysteriously sprung leaks from the tank joint, only to find that the heater was full whilst travelling, if you want to take the chance, do it, keep water in the heater.

If on the other hand you really do not want to have to :

A) Find an engineer in a place you know hardly anyone.

B) have water all over your van floor.

C) have to replace the burner module as it will almost certainly be ruined as the electronics will be waterlogged.

D) pay for a repair you could have easily avoided

Drain it down!!!

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Yes yes right on!

James and I remember having first Carver heater in the early 90's, we lived in Germany, my parents would tow our caravan from England and meet us in France for a summer touring and we would colme home and tour in the van.

Our Caravans have covered high mileages due to James's postings and maintaining family links.

I'm sure after all our years of touring one of us would have noticed people draining down the Carver as they left sites or have been warned about the devastation ;-)

What you are saying Damian is that the manufacturers are providing caravan structures and heaters that have misleading instructions rendering both " NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE ".

With the years that Carvers have been around, I'm sure that such an over sight would have been addressed with both Carver and Caravan and Motorhome manufacturers putting strong warnings to drain down the heater every time you move on. I also think that Carver by now would have altered the drain down outlet to make it more user friendly to facilitate ease of use.

Off tomorrow lunch time for a week in the caravan, the water tank is full the same as usual and will continue to be.

Ria

 

[BrianStAlbans]

People must drain them as the Caravan Club advised people not too do it on the pitch as it killed the grass.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Some people do silly things, not all of us do!

No more CC site for me any way ;-)

Good bye Britain

Well soon

Ria

 

[Lutz]

I know every little bit helps but I do feel draining before every time before moving off for the sake of 5 or 6kg is going over the top a bit. After all, the weight of the water in the heater is included in the MIRO. Besides, the water system in my caravan has loads of airlocks in it when refilling and it can be quite a job to get all that air out. Alternatively I drive off with the air in the system and the shaking and vibration while on the road gets rid of it by the time I arrive at my destination.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

At last someone with a bit of practical common sense.

The only time we've had trouble with water being pumped is when we re fill after a winter drain down!

You've put in technical terms what we have always known to be the case Lutz.

Thankyou

Ria

 

[Bri-C]

Phew..

Wow!! Ria you remind me so much of my mother in law..

John-L and Damian are quite right about the potential for problems. The earlier Carvers were a ***** to drian so if they were mounted correctly I used to risk leaving them full especially if they were slightly forward of the axle (less stress there) The later carvers have been fitted with an air screw at the top to make draining much easier.

As for not draining on the pitch to protect the grass I feel that this is targeted more at the vans with Truma's as these tend to be on newer heavier vans and hold 10 litres(Kgs) and are a sinch to drain with an internal tap..

Can't help but think of Lord-B'a post in Chit-Chat " What you'd like to say " maybe #39

Regards Brian......

 

[ProfJohnL]

I am very surprised at the vitriol with witch a sensible precaution has been attacked. A simple procedure you can prevent what has been shown on some of occasions to be a problem.

As you have seen there are contributors who have had a problem so it is not an unestablished problem for some.

If the Cascade has been fitted well and the tank is properly supported (as the majority are) then there should not be a problem.

Ria, Great! it sounds as though you have a normal installation that does support the tank, and thus it is not imperative to drain on each trip.

But what about those that don't have such a sound installation, and have suffered the problem? Don't forget that it is most likely to come to light as you arrive at your holiday location so Its not just the expense of the repairs, its inconvenience of having to try and repair the heater whilst on holiday.

 

[Rodone]

I am very surprised at the vitriol with witch a sensible precaution has been attacked. A simple procedure you can prevent what has been shown on some of occasions to be a problem.

As you have seen there are contributors who have had a problem so it is not an unestablished problem for some.

If the Cascade has been fitted well and the tank is properly supported (as the majority are) then there should not be a problem.

Ria, Great! it sounds as though you have a normal installation that does support the tank, and thus it is not imperative to drain on each trip.

But what about those that don't have such a sound installation, and have suffered the problem? Don't forget that it is most likely to come to light as you arrive at your holiday location so Its not just the expense of the repairs, its inconvenience of having to try and repair the heater whilst on holiday.

I make sure that I always tow with the tank empty mainly because most Swift designs have the water tank right at the front, (closely followed by the battery compartment) and I have a job to keep the noseweight within the correct parameters. Draining the tank is an easy way to loose a few kg, and so that is what I do. Also, if the van is not used for a few weeks, it is nice to know that the water coming out of the tap is fresh!

 

[MikeJE]

F.A.O. Gill

Perhaps my posting confused. I replaced the red drain plug under the 'van with a tap simply to avoid the fiddlesome job of draining using the red plug. Maybe your 'van does not have a red drain plug anyway.

Now. To drain or not to drain - that is the question. I drain not because of the weight of water but simply because it can freeze pretty much at any time of the year. Outdoor storage, night time with wind chill factor ? Up to the individual I'd say.

 

[gary]

Reading through I was tempted to jump straight to JohnL's defence, thinking a little harder, I'm now fully in agreement with Ria and James...it makes more work for me!!

Seriously, if you want technical I'll give you chapter and verse on how leaving a Cascade full on the move damages it. Perhaps then it's not coincidence motorhome owners are my best customers.

I might add, for different reasons Truma heaters also suffer, drain every time

 

[Bri-C]

Hi..

Gary I like the train of thought...

There appears to be a few people on this forum that are in a knowledgable position on various related subject, and all appear to be more than generous with their advice. Potentially to the detriment of the own business interests. However some people appear to be all to willing to ridicule knowledge and experience merceylessly..

I think this is a bit like the local undertaker always smileing, becuse he knows he will get your business eventually..

I've found that providing they are not going to hurt themselves or anyone else, it's generally less stressful to let them get on with it and be ready with a small "I told you so" or "well if you had bothered to listen" closly follow by "and that will be

 

[Lutz]

Is someone seriously suggesting that if you're touring and staying at a different site every night or couple of nights, one should go through the whole rigmarole every time? To my mind, a heating system that needs that sort of treatment is not fit for the purpose.

 

[MikeJE]

Now hold on folks . . . .

This is getting away from the original request for advice by Colinn at the head of this thread. Wether to use a low wattage heater or drain down - and quote - " during the cold snap periods " and whilst, by inference, in storage. There has been some discussion as to wether a heater could protect the entire system or to guarantee the system is clear by draining down. Then the weight consideration was brought up then the damage to connections mentioned and both, in some cases, mocked. Then the idea of draining down between sites was raised . . . and mocked.

Lets get back to square one. I.E. storage - heater - draindown.

 

[Damian]

Just got in from yet another day of work and read the replies since I last posted,WOWWWWW,do some people have issues or what!!

Like Gary, I am now refraining from further posting on this subject.

Each to their own, and long may it continue, my bank manager will be extatic at the continued revenue from what can only be described as avoidable problems.

Just a final comment, are the heaters not fit for purpose, no they are fine, they heat water which is what they do best.

Are caravans not fit for purpose, no they are fine, they contain all the things you want to take with you.

The MIRO, unless it has changed, is the weight ex factory, and I have never seen a van arrive at a dealers with a full hot water tank, or toilet flush tank, or the cold water system ready primed.

 

[colin-yorkshire]

hi all

excuse me but where is this red drain plug that your talking about because I cannot find one in the bailey, it has a truma hot water system and the only drain I can see is the grey toggle switch on a pipe near the bottom of the heater

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Bri-C

Wow!! Ria you remind me so much of my mother in law..

Funny , reminds me of cris.

 

[RiaandJames_374303418]

Ladies and Gentlemen

If we were new to caravanning, I could possibly ignore the design issues with draining down a Carver and the lack of "safety" instructions in the user manual.

A few caravans down the line from our first hot water equipped van and with a caravan mileage that must exceed 200000 trouble free miles Gentleman here expect us to believe that Carver are not bothered about the dangers of not draining down and don't even add a simple warning to cover themselves from liability.

Are we also to believe that manufacturers and carver are happy to risk warranty claims as the heaters are often not fitted correctly and the mounting so flimsy that disaster is imminent?

I can understand that those returning a caravan from site to storage take the precaution to drain down. Though with all our experience and that of our caravanning and motorhoming peers who have not come across flooded vans or noted legions of campers draining down heaters around Europes camp sites before they leave site we believe that we are doing the right thing as we have always done!

Lutz's post seems to me the most logical, practical and covers our experience and many others.

Posts here point to issues of poor instalation and the question of "fit for purpose", also do some people pack potential misiles on or to the rear of the heater and cause damage that way?

No "vitriol", just the disbelief at how some make a meal out of what is supposed to be a relaxing past time.

Ria

 

[Lutz]

The MIRO is not the ex-works weight. Otherwise, it would be called the 'MEW (mass ex works)'. By definition, MIRO includes all liquids except waste water, so it would theoretically even include a full on-board water tank if one is fitted.

 

[trucker]

Ive just got back from a very relaxing w/e break at Wood Farm in Dorset. I must say that reading this topic each to their own comes to mind.

I for one do drain down the system with a yellow leaver inside the van by the water heater and leave all the taps open. I do not use the drain plug to do it, in fact on my new 2007 van I havent got an additional red drain plug.

I have been caravanning for 8/10 years and have always done this, and will continue to do so. I also drain the toilet of fluch water as well. I suppose someone will try and tell me not to bother with that either!

Saving weight in the van seams very sensible to me and for an extra 2/3 minutes filling the hot water system and the toilet, is well worth while IMO.

As for Ria

"Some moan about women making work, it seems we have a few male "old women" making hard work out of caravanning".

Well if thats me as well great Ill do what I think is right it seams to make sense to me but prahaps some just like to wind others up. Someone mentioned an old poster a few posts up prahaps Ria is him!

 

[Lutz]

Each to his own, I suppose, but I don't even empty the on-board water tank before moving off unless I have a feeling that I may be a bit close to the MTPLM limit. I can't say that I've noticed any difference in the way the caravan handles whether there's a few litres of water in the tank or not.

 

[Colinn]

Pssst, is it safe to come out yet??

(Look folks, I'm sorry I asked. I've been away for three days while you have been arguing this one through!! Look, I'll just drain down as I've always done...you guys have convinced me that heating is wasteful...!)

Best wishes to all...

 

[Garfield]

we have started to drain down before travelling but only because the heater is near the front and we have difficulty getting down to 75 kg noseweight on our Lexon 640, even with the awning and poles in the rear bathroom and the spare wheel under the rearmost bunk and an empty water heater do we get to 75 kg.

 

[Garfield]

In reply to the original post, it would cost a fortune to heat the van enough to make any difference especially as we are supposed to be reducing the energy we use, draining down for winter is the only sensible option, or you could fill the system with cheap whisky....THAT won't freeze!!! and you could invite everyone for tea first time out.

 

[BrianStAlbans]

Mine is full on the way there and empty on the way back. Reason, before I go away I check the system and clean but leave full. When I come home I drain it as I know that the van's going nowhere for a few months.

Well at least I know, whatever is the right way, I'm right 50% of the time ;O)

Brian