Jockey wheel raised or lowered when sited?

[Anseo]

I am sure this has been discussed before but a search did not render up what I was looking for.

Having heard (not seen or noticed this personally) that some owners leave their jockey wheel raised when sited, I thought to inquire further.

What are the pros and cons of having the jockey wheel raised or contacting the ground when pitched.

I always leave the jockey wheel in contact with the ground and deploy the steadies, I don't see any advantages to raising the jockey wheel, but I am happy to be corrected.

Thanks.

 

[Craigyoung]

Mine is always in contact with the ground to take the pressure of the front legs . Sometimes on a bit of wood so that it does not sink on the grass .

Craig

 

[Brasso530]

Agree with you Craig,can never understand why anyone would raise it off the ground.Just a bit of extra stability.

 

[carper2]

Mine is always left on the floor. I have only seen a few people who raise them up.

Les

 

[Lappy]

As craigyoung says, it helps takes the pressure off the front steadies. When we eat or socialise, everyone is sat at the front of the caravan and therefore this is where the most weight is and the jockey wheel gives additional support. The rear steadies only bear weight when we sleep.

Regards

 

[Parksy]

There's nothing to be gained by raising the jockey wheel so why do it?

 

[otherclive]

Mines always left lowered. Can’t think why anyone believes there to be any advantage in raising it. Steadies are just what they say.

 

[AdifferentJim]

Left lowered

 

[colin-yorkshire]

yeah left lowered. then the van sits on a triangle supported by the greatest strength. the corner steadies are just that steadies.

 

[Dustydog]

Technically With jockey wheel retracted all the nose weight and more will be carried by the front steadies thus putting considerable stress on the wooden / laminated floor. Not good.
Mine remains down when pitched.
I have seen some removed and replaced with a scaffold pole which supports the hitch and allows an aerial to be mounted.

 

[alan29]

I was told that the steadies are steadies and not legs. The weight should be on the wheels.

 

[Craigyoung]

I was told that the steadies are steadies and not legs. The weight should be on the wheels.

Mmm ok then , next time you go away then set yourself up but don't put them down and just use your wheels then , you make your choice whether you need to put them down or not !! Imagine you don't put them down and if you're a family of four and sit at the rear of the van. . . :huh:

Craig

 

[Icaru5]

For me, definitely down. For one simple reason only, and that is that the weight at the front of the van then applies a vertical force onto the jockey wheel which is directly connected (clamped) to the trailer chassis which is a specially designed, load-bearing structure and is much more than capable of bearing this load.

If you raise the jockey wheel, all of the weight at the front of the van is then being applied to the corner steadies, which in turn are applying the same force to the underside of the floor of the van. All I can think of here is significant deflection of the floor, manifesting itself as delamination, separation from the chassis (where the threads of the screws/bolts are stripped, or the clearance holes in the sheet material are successfully forced over the heads of the screws/bolts), or separation of boards. I would imagine that all of these would significantly increase the possibility of water ingress.

When referring to the winding down of the corner steadies, I have often heard many phrases such as "To the ground and once more round " etc. I don't think so. I'd rather have a little rocking in the van than rip the floor from the chassis.

On the other hand, I do appreciate that Jockey wheels are often officially rated at around 100KG or less, and that the force applied to the jockey wheel would be many times more than this when 6 adults are sitting up front, but as a very worst case scenario, how much is a new jockey wheel again ?

 

[Icaru5]

I was told that the steadies are steadies and not legs. The weight should be on the wheels.

Mmm ok then , next time you go away then set yourself up but don't put them down and just use your wheels then , you make your choice whether you need to put them down or not !! Imagine you don't put them down and if you're a family of four and sit at the rear of the van. . . :huh:

Craig

I don't think there was ever any question as to whether or not one should lower the steadies Craig, just the jockey wheel ...

 

[VicMallows]

It doesn't need a 'family of four' with my 'van! If when hitched to the car but no steadies down I get into the 'van, I know that it will be fine as long as I stay forwards of the door. If I go to use the toilet (rear) there will be a frightening 'lurch' as the 'van tilts back and is only restrained by the hitch :woohoo:

 

[Tugger-Ian]

You may well find the vans with the Jockey wheel raised have the E&P Hydraulic Self Levelling system fitted.

Hydraulic rams level across the axle then the front steadies are deployed followed by the rear steadies.

To start the operation the van does need to be nose down from level and when finished the jockey wheel can be well off the ground.

My Buccaneer has the system fitted as standard and is well capable of lifting the nose just by the front steadies, I do lower my jockey once level, old habits are hard to loose but some dont bother.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Icarus 5

I'm not sure where you have got your information from about jockey wheels, but a standard Alko one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CARAVAN-TRAILER-ALKO-JOCKEY-WHEEL/dp/B0064CWKC4
you can see is statically rated to 150kg.
and the heavy duty one is rated to 300kg

http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/products/caravan-accessories-1/jockey-wheels-accessories/premium-jockey-wheel.html
As for the load on the jockey wheel on site, well that depends the turning moments the weight of the bodies produces in the caravan pivoting on the main wheels.

Just as a very rough guide, the furthest away from the axle you can normally sit will be no more than about 2M, and each adjacent person will be about 0.6M nearer the axle. Assuming a 75kg person, that will be two 150kg 2M from the axle producing a torque of 300 NM
150kg 1.4 Mfrom the axle producing a torque of 210 NM
150kg 0.8M from the axle producing a torque of 120 NM giving a total torque of 630 NM

However the Jockey wheel will be typically 3.5M or more away from the axle so the reaction it provides will be 630/3.5 = 180 kg. BUT the jockey wheel is not the only support, as you should be deploying the steadies, and they will share some of the load, It difficult say exactly how much but it will be likely to be more than you think. So its highly unlikely you will be overloading the jockey wheel.

As for how to set the steadies, their purpose is to stop the caravan rocking when people move about inside. The steadies are designed to apply some pressure to the ground which will as you say react with the underfloor structures, but the structures do have some capacity to carry load. So in the absence of pressure gauges to measure the thrust the adage of to the ground should be highly effective.

However if you are happy to allow some rocking movement then that is your choice, but its not mine, and frankly if the steadies and the rest of the caravan structure could not withstand some thrust, in my book the caravan would not be fit for purpose.

 

[Icaru5]

Thanks for the correction on the Jockey wheel rating Prof.

When starting my post I was considering including a sketch showing the moments of force pivoting about the axle so as to quantify the forces involved, but then decided against it due to time constraints on as Friday evening ! - Anyway, no need now as you explained it very well with the figures.

It does make me cringe though when I walk past a van on a site with a couple of families inside and both the adults and kids enjoying themselves, with the jockey wheel clearly and deliberately rasied ... :dry:

 

[Craigyoung]

Same here .
You walk past thinking why . . . ? hmy:

 

[ProfJohnL]

I have no concern for the steadies themselves as again eth Alko Web site

http://www.al-ko.com/shop/uk_vt/stable-form-corner-steady.html
Shows they have a capacity of 1000kg each!

I know the consensus here is the steadies have to transfer that thrust to the caravan body, and that is the area of concern, but again, the caravan design must be designed to accept some load, other wise we would be seeing far more reports of problems under the front and rear lockers. In some versions of the Alko chassis there is an additional member to take the steadies thrust, but i accept, its not the case in ALL caravans.

 

[DrZhivago]

With jockey wheel retracted all the nose weight and more will be carried by the front steadies thus putting considerable stress on the wooden / laminated floor. Not good.

But most of the weight to be carried (people, equipment, sides and roof), like it or not, does go via the floor, especially its outer areas (in my van anyway). My front steadies, when deployed, look like they provide 20-30% of their upward reaction to the A frame (which is quite narrow in this area) and the remainder to the underside of the floor near the sides via steel spreader plates. If for example you were to retract the front steadies on site, the floor, not then being directly supported in its outer areas, would be subject to a considerable lateral bending moment, tending to make it hog over the fairly narrow central A frame in that area. In fact in my rather old van I can see permanent signs of that hogging (ie the floor has permanently bent slightly so as to be higher in the centre than at the sides). I consider that the steadies should be an an essential part of the support when at site, and not just to "steady".

Nevertheless, the jockey wheel is also valuable as support, but not for nearly all of it. The more spread around the support is, the better. I would ensure by feel that steadies and jockey wheel were all taking a significant share of the weight.

 

[Dustydog]

Dr Z.
Back to the OP. Jockey wheel?
I'm not sure what your point is?

 

[Hutch]

Jockey wheel always down as in my Coachman hand book , and the steadys to stop the rocking.

 

[DrZhivago]

Dr Z.
Back to the OP. Jockey wheel? I'm not sure what your point is?

My point is that I believe that the steadies and jockey wheel should all be used, and that the steadies be wound down firmly enough to take some of the weight. Some have suggested that the steadies should only be made to touch the ground lightly - just to "steady" in fact; I don't agree with that, I believe the steadies and jockey wheel should all share the weight, perhaps around equally as well as one can judge.

 

[Dustydog]

Dr Z.
Back to the OP. Jockey wheel? I'm not sure what your point is?

My point is that I believe that the steadies and jockey wheel should all be used, and that the steadies be wound down firmly enough to take some of the weight. Some have suggested that the steadies should only be made to touch the ground lightly - just to "steady" in fact; I don't agree with that, I believe the steadies and jockey wheel should all share the weight, perhaps around equally as well as one can judge.

The Prof's earlier post sums it up.