Giovanni - on the advice of the garage who undertake ALL my car servicing and MOTs I had the rear suspension renewed approx. 12 months ago. Likewise I had new discs and pads fitted to the brakes and the brake pipes renewed. This I had done out of my own mind for the safety of all and not just myself. As I said ANY vehicle could suffer with neglect no matter what the age. My car has 118000 miles over 10 years whilst my son's company car has 65000 miles over 3 years so millage is irrelevant in my opinion, it is the service and maintenance of the vehicle that is important and that goes for all and, as you being a transport manager, should realise ALL means commercial, public service vehicles and private cars. My friend is a senior manager with VOSA and he often comments on the unroadworthy state of all types of vehicles found during spot checks and often attends courts when transport companies or individuals are prosecuted.
Hi All
I amy be the odd one out, we bought our 4 x 4 long time before we started caravanning, we did not to worry when buying our first van abouts weights etc, but I do object to being tarred with the same brush as the Chelsea tanks.
My Shogun returns 30 mph, gets serviced every 9000 miles, tows very well and is very comfy to drive, when originally bought I towed a trailer for work, delivering barrels etc.
Now the idiots have their way, all vehicles will suffer in the long run, except of course the all electric, we, the caravan owners will all suffer, it does not matter what you yoe with, the door has been opened for government to set different tax levels on each vehicle.
The emmisions fee will effect us all, having looked at different vehicles, our business's will all suffer, the tax on vans going up, diesel going through the roof, deliveries will all cost more, rates will rise, everyone will suffer.
The do gooders do not want us to fly, they do not want big cars, may be children should be banned all together, we will not be allowed to have a family, these so called enviromentalists ought to speak to the members of the CC and other simialr bodies, I have never met anyone with a caravan yet who does not care for the enviroment.
But getting back to the original point, no we do not all need a 4x4, some of us must have one to carry out our business, and some return a far better mph than the family saloon, lastly, they are serviced and cared for better than most cars.
I amy be the odd one out, we bought our 4 x 4 long time before we started caravanning, we did not to worry when buying our first van abouts weights etc, but I do object to being tarred with the same brush as the Chelsea tanks.
My Shogun returns 30 mph, gets serviced every 9000 miles, tows very well and is very comfy to drive, when originally bought I towed a trailer for work, delivering barrels etc.
Now the idiots have their way, all vehicles will suffer in the long run, except of course the all electric, we, the caravan owners will all suffer, it does not matter what you yoe with, the door has been opened for government to set different tax levels on each vehicle.
The emmisions fee will effect us all, having looked at different vehicles, our business's will all suffer, the tax on vans going up, diesel going through the roof, deliveries will all cost more, rates will rise, everyone will suffer.
The do gooders do not want us to fly, they do not want big cars, may be children should be banned all together, we will not be allowed to have a family, these so called enviromentalists ought to speak to the members of the CC and other simialr bodies, I have never met anyone with a caravan yet who does not care for the enviroment.
But getting back to the original point, no we do not all need a 4x4, some of us must have one to carry out our business, and some return a far better mph than the family saloon, lastly, they are serviced and cared for better than most cars.
Whats the piont!forget it.You are taking it personel colin,and cannot see for the trees!
I mean look what you have now added "i had my suspension done at 65k"ect ect.Welldone, does that not actually back up what i am saying! but can you forget for a moment its not about you! but others who will buy an older 4x4 because of what they percieve as being its strong pionts,without actually taking into account that they should possible replace certain parts irrispectable of whether they are still ok to pass our mot.....
I merely pionted out a known weakness,but again you make it a piont that it applies to ALL vehicles when i Clearly MAKE THE PIONT, that because these vehicles tend to be used for towing heavy vans,something that a little or middle saloon could not do anyway,and people choose these 4X4s because of it,they should be made aware of an additional concern,on top of the normal ones one should have when buying older type vehicles.
And i am sure we all know excellent MOT stations, but i clearly pionted out that these type of problems can easily get passed our test,and the problem only becomes apparent when its already possible too late.
I mean look what you have now added "i had my suspension done at 65k"ect ect.Welldone, does that not actually back up what i am saying! but can you forget for a moment its not about you! but others who will buy an older 4x4 because of what they percieve as being its strong pionts,without actually taking into account that they should possible replace certain parts irrispectable of whether they are still ok to pass our mot.....
I merely pionted out a known weakness,but again you make it a piont that it applies to ALL vehicles when i Clearly MAKE THE PIONT, that because these vehicles tend to be used for towing heavy vans,something that a little or middle saloon could not do anyway,and people choose these 4X4s because of it,they should be made aware of an additional concern,on top of the normal ones one should have when buying older type vehicles.
And i am sure we all know excellent MOT stations, but i clearly pionted out that these type of problems can easily get passed our test,and the problem only becomes apparent when its already possible too late.
with ref. to the original post,we tow a swift conqueror with a isuzu double cab pickup.I'm a self employed builder,so the truck works daily.At weekends bikes,dog(in basket)are on the back,and of course it tows the van.Does this make me brainwashed?sheeplike?NO,it makes me practical.When will people stop judging others by their own principals/standards?who is really blinkered and sheeplike?
Why are 4x4 perceived as superior and safer tow vehicles?
Where are the statistics to back these theories up?
Why are they good for towing off a muddy rally field, when most run on standard road tyres and not mud plugers?
How many of these 4x4 drivers have actually been trained in how to get the most out of there vehicles?
Why is it considered better to tow a small sized caravan with a 4x4 than an ordinary saloon/estate type car?
Why are 4x4 drivers so touchy about there choice of vehicle?
Surely all 4x4 caravan towers can't be builders or farmers as well?
How many of these 4x4s have actually been "off road" doing the job they were designed to do in the first place?
How many 4x4 drivers know how to use, and take full advantage of there transfer gear box?
How many 4x4 drivers can actually name a couple of instances, where if it had not been for there 4x4 they would have been in the mire so as to speak?
And finally please note these are serious questions, and not a dig at people who choose a 4x4 as there towing/every day vehicle, then perhaps I might have a greater understanding to my earlier "just an observation"
Where are the statistics to back these theories up?
Why are they good for towing off a muddy rally field, when most run on standard road tyres and not mud plugers?
How many of these 4x4 drivers have actually been trained in how to get the most out of there vehicles?
Why is it considered better to tow a small sized caravan with a 4x4 than an ordinary saloon/estate type car?
Why are 4x4 drivers so touchy about there choice of vehicle?
Surely all 4x4 caravan towers can't be builders or farmers as well?
How many of these 4x4s have actually been "off road" doing the job they were designed to do in the first place?
How many 4x4 drivers know how to use, and take full advantage of there transfer gear box?
How many 4x4 drivers can actually name a couple of instances, where if it had not been for there 4x4 they would have been in the mire so as to speak?
And finally please note these are serious questions, and not a dig at people who choose a 4x4 as there towing/every day vehicle, then perhaps I might have a greater understanding to my earlier "just an observation"
at the minute we have a sorento 2.5 diesel to tow our van which is 1500kg.we previously towed it with a vectra 1.9cdti[1530kg]which caused the car all sorts of engine management problems which is why we sold it.
we also caravan all year round so a bit of extra grip helps.
i havent been trained to drive a 4wd properly,just like i wasnt trained to drive my vectra at 135mph so i dont think that 'observation' stands really.
my gas guzzler gets around 28mpg average which aint to bad,considering how much wine is onboard .
out of interest,what car and van do you have?is it a freedom towed by a fiesta by chance?
cheers
dave
cheers
we also caravan all year round so a bit of extra grip helps.
i havent been trained to drive a 4wd properly,just like i wasnt trained to drive my vectra at 135mph so i dont think that 'observation' stands really.
my gas guzzler gets around 28mpg average which aint to bad,considering how much wine is onboard .
out of interest,what car and van do you have?is it a freedom towed by a fiesta by chance?
cheers
dave
cheers
A&G, you've opened up that old can of worms again!!I took your originall post as it was intended, as an observation, cos I'm very tolerant, but it did smack somewhat of criticism.
Your last post, though sounded accusatory, as though we 4x4ers should justify ourselves. Well, I only have to justify my choice of car to one person--MYSELF!
My money, my choice, my great big, non-eco-friendly, lpg guzzling 4.2 litre, 200 bhp monster Range Rover, and I love it to bits, so there!!!
But I'm not going to fall out over it.
Your last post, though sounded accusatory, as though we 4x4ers should justify ourselves. Well, I only have to justify my choice of car to one person--MYSELF!
My money, my choice, my great big, non-eco-friendly, lpg guzzling 4.2 litre, 200 bhp monster Range Rover, and I love it to bits, so there!!!
But I'm not going to fall out over it.
David, you say towing caused allsorts of engine management problems on your vectra? can i ask how the fact that you towed,was the reason for the engine management faults?
gio, one of our club members had engine managment probs with a Vectra. At random,when towing, it would suddenly shut down to "get you home mode" without any warning, but it never did whilst solo. vauxhall failed to find the problem, so after twelve months his company got rid, and gave him a Honda Accord.
I also had engine problems with my Vauxhall Omega when towing - solo was no problems and an excellent long distant touring car. Could not fault it as a solo drive but when towing it was b****y aweful.
Well put!I have been away from this forum for a while and cannot believe the treatment dished out to Allan and Gill. They were only making a valid point and don't deserve this harsh attitude towards them
I too find some of the replies to Allan @ Gill a bit "sharp" to say the least at what seemed to me to be a valid general caravanning point.
Personally I have towed with a 4 x 4 (mazda tribute) for 3 years and the last 2 years with a Mondeo tdci. The Mondeo is a superior towcar. Just as stable towing my Bailey Ranger 550/6 but far mor powerful and economic.
In my experience I do find this getting stuck in a muddy field situation a bit of an exageration. Never happened to us in 8 years of caravanning and would be way down on my list of considerations when buying my next towcar.
Personally I have towed with a 4 x 4 (mazda tribute) for 3 years and the last 2 years with a Mondeo tdci. The Mondeo is a superior towcar. Just as stable towing my Bailey Ranger 550/6 but far mor powerful and economic.
In my experience I do find this getting stuck in a muddy field situation a bit of an exageration. Never happened to us in 8 years of caravanning and would be way down on my list of considerations when buying my next towcar.
giovanni,
vectra problems happened when we changed our van from 1230kg to 1500kg.it didnt seem to like pulling the extra weight and brought on the engine management light.it had a new part fitted but still kept doing it so we swapped it for something more suitable,shame really as it was a lovely car.
dave
vectra problems happened when we changed our van from 1230kg to 1500kg.it didnt seem to like pulling the extra weight and brought on the engine management light.it had a new part fitted but still kept doing it so we swapped it for something more suitable,shame really as it was a lovely car.
dave
Hi All
I think its now time the Modarator jumped in here and closed this thread down. Its always the same, everytime the subject comes up, its like being on a large roundabout that has no exits. Its so BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I think its now time the Modarator jumped in here and closed this thread down. Its always the same, everytime the subject comes up, its like being on a large roundabout that has no exits. Its so BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
QUOTE.
"Hi All
I think its now time the Modarator jumped in here and closed this thread down. Its always the same, everytime the subject comes up, its like being on a large roundabout that has no exits. Its so BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"
And you thought the previous threads boring...!!!!! YAWN.
Interestingly you seem to have missed the boat,as this thread seemed to be going along quite peacefully............
"Hi All
I think its now time the Modarator jumped in here and closed this thread down. Its always the same, everytime the subject comes up, its like being on a large roundabout that has no exits. Its so BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"
And you thought the previous threads boring...!!!!! YAWN.
Interestingly you seem to have missed the boat,as this thread seemed to be going along quite peacefully............
It cannot be denied that this topic has been done to death, on this & numerous other "Forums" and nothing is new, just about every opinion expressed has appeared many, many times, often by the same people. Reminds me of the times I've visited trout farms at feeding time!!!!
Giovanni - my postings were meant to demonstrate that it is not the vehicle that is at fault no matter the age, what matters is the type of servicing it has had during its life. Whether it be a 4x4 or a car if the servicing is not carried out regular then the vehicle will suffer and become a potential death trap. I am one of those people who respect their vehicle and therefore make sure it is regularly serviced - planned preventative maintenance. There are others who neglect new vehicles and these are death traps at a young stage of their use but for all intense and purposes are assumed to be roadworthy.
I have seen many old "classic" vehicles towing caravans - some new vans and some classic vans, but they appeared to be performing excellently. Not so long ago my brother had a Rover P5 3500cc Coupe and towed a 4 bearth cabin cruiser with it with no trouble at all.
The point I was trying to make was that in my opinion it is wrong to knock the vehicle, the vehicle is only as good as the attention the owner gives to it regarding servicing, etc. Therefore KNOCK the owner and not the vehicle.
I have seen many old "classic" vehicles towing caravans - some new vans and some classic vans, but they appeared to be performing excellently. Not so long ago my brother had a Rover P5 3500cc Coupe and towed a 4 bearth cabin cruiser with it with no trouble at all.
The point I was trying to make was that in my opinion it is wrong to knock the vehicle, the vehicle is only as good as the attention the owner gives to it regarding servicing, etc. Therefore KNOCK the owner and not the vehicle.
Just thoughtI would throw in my tupence worth.
I have a 2 year old Freelander Sport which I tow with.
I also use it in the course of my employment but the main reason for having one is because my wife is disabled and she finds it is easier to get in and out of the Freelander than any other car which we have had.
The fact that it has heated seats also gives her great relief from pain and has more leg room when we go away on long journeys.
As others have said it is down to personal choice and as far as I am concerned this is the best vehicle I have owned and I have had quite a few in the past 30 odd years.
I have a 2 year old Freelander Sport which I tow with.
I also use it in the course of my employment but the main reason for having one is because my wife is disabled and she finds it is easier to get in and out of the Freelander than any other car which we have had.
The fact that it has heated seats also gives her great relief from pain and has more leg room when we go away on long journeys.
As others have said it is down to personal choice and as far as I am concerned this is the best vehicle I have owned and I have had quite a few in the past 30 odd years.
If the topic has been done to death, why do people smoke the same nest?
I'm returning a pals caravan to UK shores as he is upgrading to a new Elddis.
Our 4x4 tow car pokes out 350bhp and our other 4x4 that doesn't tow has about 520 bhp on tap. Its our choice and no one elses business as far as we're concerned. On our route today we saw UK registerd E type Jag, two old Morgan plus 8 and an old Aston in France, in the UK a bevy of hi powered cars of 4/5 and 2 seat varieties all also pushing out more naughties than our tow car.
Do Alan and Gill only see tow cars? Or are other cars exempted from their attention? Why so much concern over caravanners when plenty of non towers drive S Class or 7 Series, Ferrari, Aston, TVR and others?
If any one dared to make the remark that started this thread to us on site they would chance getting a rude reply.
Why the Moderator feels that it should be different here is beyond reasoning. If you make controversial posts questioning others tow cars choice when you don't even know the people you are are likely to get some controversial replies!
Safer to keep eyes on the road than on what tows what.
I'm returning a pals caravan to UK shores as he is upgrading to a new Elddis.
Our 4x4 tow car pokes out 350bhp and our other 4x4 that doesn't tow has about 520 bhp on tap. Its our choice and no one elses business as far as we're concerned. On our route today we saw UK registerd E type Jag, two old Morgan plus 8 and an old Aston in France, in the UK a bevy of hi powered cars of 4/5 and 2 seat varieties all also pushing out more naughties than our tow car.
Do Alan and Gill only see tow cars? Or are other cars exempted from their attention? Why so much concern over caravanners when plenty of non towers drive S Class or 7 Series, Ferrari, Aston, TVR and others?
If any one dared to make the remark that started this thread to us on site they would chance getting a rude reply.
Why the Moderator feels that it should be different here is beyond reasoning. If you make controversial posts questioning others tow cars choice when you don't even know the people you are are likely to get some controversial replies!
Safer to keep eyes on the road than on what tows what.
My apologies to all who think that I have re-opened the 4x4 can of worms, yes you are quite correct it has been done to the death on many occasions, but my enquiry was brought about by pure observation on a 100 mile + journey, where the preferred tow vehicle came across as being a 4x4, regardless of caravan size, or occupants in the vehicle (mainly 2 up) you pays your money and takes your choice, each man to there own, I personally have no problem with who tows with what, but you must admit it makes you scratch your head a bit when you see a large 4x4 with a tiny (in comparison) caravan attached to the back.
We are fast approaching almost 40 years of caravanning, a lot of that time spent on CC rally fields, and back in the mid 80s through the 90s, a lot of people acquired four wheel drive vehicles to tow with, and so the word went round "best car we have ever towed with" and in no time at all a large percentage of rallyers jumped in and bought one, regardless of weather they really needed one or not, (myself included) hence my expression "Brainwashed or Sheep syndrome" and in this day and age where fuel is getting so expensive, does it not make sense, if you can, to use a vehicle that gives you a lot more miles for your
We are fast approaching almost 40 years of caravanning, a lot of that time spent on CC rally fields, and back in the mid 80s through the 90s, a lot of people acquired four wheel drive vehicles to tow with, and so the word went round "best car we have ever towed with" and in no time at all a large percentage of rallyers jumped in and bought one, regardless of weather they really needed one or not, (myself included) hence my expression "Brainwashed or Sheep syndrome" and in this day and age where fuel is getting so expensive, does it not make sense, if you can, to use a vehicle that gives you a lot more miles for your
"Safer to keep eyes on the road than on what tows what"
Quite agree, but surley thats irrelevant if you are the passenger!
Quite agree, but surley thats irrelevant if you are the passenger!
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