Keeping to 20 mph

[otherclive]

Yesterday we spent a day in Wales where most towns and villages are a 20 mph limit. I turned on intelligent speed control as I entered the first 20 mph zone. Surprisingly it worked very well at that low speed. That was until I arrived at stretches where there were cars parked on the nearside verges, and also in the road on the opposite side. Well the poor old radar was all over the place dropping speed and gently applying brakes then gently accelerating again, before repeating the process. I turned it off and went back to right foot control. Which is a pity as trying to hold 20 mph seems to hack off following drivers, Wheras on speed control it seems to make it much easier for me to ignore them😂

 

[Kevin M]

A lot of the limits are being reset to 30mins now, councils spending big amounts on new signage.

 

[JTQ]

"trying to hold 20 mph seems to hack off following drivers"

Exactly my experience.

IMO 20mph is right and feels natural in certain limited places but so anti natural to me along with evidently so many when blindly applied throughout extended lengths in most villages.

Fortunately from that point of view we now rarely get there, shame as in many ways a lovely place to take a break.

 

[GaryB]

I work in Wrexham most weeks and have noticed some of the more rural 20's have reverted to 30 but we went to Cardiff on Saturday and 20mph still seemed dominant in a lot of areas. Fortunately my cruise control works well at 20 but I still get the more impatient locals overtaking!

 

[otherclive]

A lot of the limits are being reset to 30mins now, councils spending big amounts on new signage.

That wasn’t my experience in south Wales yesterday, but sooner the better.

 

[otherclive]

Exactly my experience.

IMO 20mph is right and feels natural in certain limited places but so anti natural to me along with evidently so many when blindly applied throughout extended lengths in most villages.

Fortunately from that point of view we now rarely get there, shame as in many ways a lovely place to take a break.

Three more breaks booked in September, south, mid and west Wales, 12 nights in all. Don’t know why we didn’t retire there, beats the southernmost county across the Bristol Channel..

 

[GUMPY]

The Yeti has the old style cruise control, works fine, just set and forget.

 

[otherclive]

I work in Wrexham most weeks and have noticed some of the more rural 20's have reverted to 30 but we went to Cardiff on Saturday and 20mph still seemed dominant in a lot of areas. Fortunately my cruise control works well at 20 but I still get the more impatient locals overtaking!

My radar cruise control does work well in 20 mph zones where we live but yesterday even with its detection distance reduced the proximity to parked cars combined with oncoming traffic threw it low balls. Need to dive in to menus to see if the radar input can be turned off. Although more to life than menu diving! It works ace on motorways and A roads and lets me periodically exercise my legs on journeys.

 

[Kevin M]

That wasn’t my experience in south Wales yesterday, but sooner the better.

This is North Wales (local to where I live), not sure on other parts.

 

[Boxerman]

Exactly my experience.

IMO 20mph is right and feels natural in certain limited places but so anti natural to me along with evidently so many when blindly applied throughout extended lengths in most villages.

Fortunately from that point of view we now rarely get there, shame as in many ways a lovely place to take a break.

This may be of interest research by European testers has concluded that if you

Yesterday we spent a day in Wales where most towns and villages are a 20 mph limit. I turned on intelligent speed control as I entered the first 20 mph zone. Surprisingly it worked very well at that low speed. That was until I arrived at stretches where there were cars parked on the nearside verges, and also in the road on the opposite side. Well the poor old radar was all over the place dropping speed and gently applying brakes then gently accelerating again, before repeating the process. I turned it off and went back to right foot control. Which is a pity as trying to hold 20 mph seems to hack off following drivers, Wheras on speed control it seems to make it much easier for me to ignore them😂

It’s been researched and now confirmed the benefit of 20mph outways the frustration in my opinion , there is a 75% reduction in child fatalities in areas with 20mph limits, compared to areas with no change , the time difference over an average daily school run - commute was only an extra 4 mins, so it seems an obvious change to make even if it is unpopular, I remember the uproar when seat belts were mandated my Dan and his mates were considering storming Parliament 🤔

 

[JTQ]

This may be of interest research by European testers has concluded that if you

As I said its IMO "right" in some places and to me and I expect others natural, even in 30 mph zones to drive at only 20mph.
My issue comes where it is to me and clearly others unduly slow. My examples would include where there aren't dwellings and the road is straight wide and affording good visibility and possibly includes one or both footways.
In essence having a blanket rule rather than one targeted at where its needed, which could well be more respected and from that possibly more effective.

 

[Boxerman]

Yes I can’t disagree with you there in the report I read it reduced noise and pollution by a significant amount also regards D

 

[Sam Vimes]

One area of expertise when I worked was safety analysis of aircraft systems. We were given failure rates for critical systems that we needed to keep within, especially those systems that could result in loss of life if a failure accured. One obvious question I posed was that since it's impossible to have zero failures how do you establish an acceptable level of fatalities. The answer was not encouraging since it meant putting a price on human life.

When the 20mph speed limit started to spread across the country I had a similar question in my mind. Why is 20mph acceptable given that fatalities or serious accidents will still occur? Why not 15, 10, 5 or 0?

It also seems to me that this is being rolled out in places without due consideration as to the actual need.

I'm not against it but can't help feeling it's unnecessary in some areas. Scotland, for years just had it around schools at times when children would be coming and going. Now it's all over the place.

 

[Boxerman]

One area of expertise when I worked was safety analysis of aircraft systems. We were given failure rates for critical systems that we needed to keep within, especially those systems that could result in loss of life if a failure accured. One obvious question I posed was that since it's impossible to have zero failures how do you establish an acceptable level of fatalities. The answer was not encouraging since it meant putting a price on human life.

When the 20mph speed limit started to spread across the country I had a similar question in my mind. Why is 20mph acceptable given that fatalities or serious accidents will still occur? Why not 15, 10, 5 or 0?

It also seems to me that this is being rolled out in places without due consideration as to the actual need.

I'm not against it but can't help feeling it's unnecessary in some areas. Scotland, for years just had it around schools at times when children would be coming and going. Now it's all over the place.

I agree with the lack of consistency in application, if I had input it would implemented be all urban streets where there is on street parking on both side , or restricted view due to design, also near any rows of shops and on roads containing schools, for a distance of a mile in either direction, just for a starting point , mind they are all only any use if there is consistent enforcement and education

 

[otherclive]

One area of expertise when I worked was safety analysis of aircraft systems. We were given failure rates for critical systems that we needed to keep within, especially those systems that could result in loss of life if a failure accured. One obvious question I posed was that since it's impossible to have zero failures how do you establish an acceptable level of fatalities. The answer was not encouraging since it meant putting a price on human life.

When the 20mph speed limit started to spread across the country I had a similar question in my mind. Why is 20mph acceptable given that fatalities or serious accidents will still occur? Why not 15, 10, 5 or 0?

It also seems to me that this is being rolled out in places without due consideration as to the actual need.

I'm not against it but can't help feeling it's unnecessary in some areas. Scotland, for years just had it around schools at times when children would be coming and going. Now it's all over the place.

I had some similar experiences with the cost of human life. The HSC published figures for accident costs associated with fatalities or injuries. Our mantra was ALARP... As Low As Reasonably Practicable, and Practicable was limited in some cases by a financial cost above which the cost of implementing further safety measures outweighed the benefit achieved. This was introduced for Whole Ship Safety Cases for new warships following the Piper Alpha disaster , then made retrospective. Not a cheap undertaking particularly the retrospective safety cases. Saying it met the contract specifications would not wash with the Safety Management Office.

Too many modern health and safety initiatives have little basis in proper assessment techniques having been applied. Can be a political response to media clamour, or local pressure groups.

Appraisal values or 'unit costs' - HSE

The unit costs to society per each incidence of workplace fatality, workplace non-fatal injury and work-related ill health are most commonly referred to as the 'appraisal values'.

www.hse.gov.uk