flogging a dead horse, eh Prof probably, there will never be agreement on the issue, as the basis of the discussion is smudged by innuendo and false representation, lets dissect what you just posted.
quote" I never suggested that Calor sell bottles, I was making the point that the choice of whether to sell bottles is in Calors hands. If bottles cannot be sold, then they cant be purchased, thus anyone selling or buying Calor bottles is acting contrary to the the original hire contract that was signed.
this would be true if all the bottles in circulation, could be traced back to the original hirer [they can't] as you well know any company no matter the size only keeps records for a set amount of time typically 10 years, after that the records are redundant and either deleted [electronically] or destroyed [paper form] once this happens any contract that the records apply to are also redundant, this means a bottle that was obtained before this time period expired no longer has a valid contract attached to it.
the company accepts this on a custom and practice principal as it does not ask for a current contract before supplying a refilled cylinder, and never renews a contract when the time lapse has expired, indeed to the contrary it is only interested in the value of the gas supplied in the refill, note" you carefully described the practice of buying and selling bottles as a breach of contract, and not illegal this is right, as it is a civil matter and not a criminal matter, in order to be a criminal matter you would have to deprive the owner [Calor] of the said cylinder, but the cylinder has not been stolen if they get it back in exchange for a refill, the only difference is the deposit they insist on for the first cylinder, one cannot say contract as the contract may well be no longer in existence.
the case referred to earlier was different as a large scale exportation of cylinders clearly shows the intent of depriving the company of their property, and that is completely different no one is ever going to be held in breach of contract while the company cannot prove there was a contract to begin with.
quote" For every Calor bottle in public circulation there must have been an original rental agreement. Those expressly state you cannot sell or lend or otherwise dispose of a bottle except to Calor. This means the bottles supplied under that agreement should always be in the possession of the rentee or Calor.
If you have not signed a Calor rental agreement you should not have a Calor bottle.
this is true to some extent, however, only a small percentage of users will have their original agreement and I will guarantee that if that agreement is more than 20 years old, it will be the only one in existance as Calor would have no record of it by now. you are a great one for the abidance of all the rules this we come to accept on all matters, yet the crux of the matter is body of proof, it may be handy to prove you have an agreement, but a world away from proving you never had one, again the company is only interested in the the value of the refill not who presents it for exchange.
quote" Regardless of who actually has a Calor bottle, the only proper method of disposal is back to Calor who own the bottles.
if it was only that simple
hmy: there would be less rogue bottles around, take it back to the stockist yeah believe me I did try, and probably so did hundreds of others it is not that simple, that is why there are so many cylinders at the recycling centres, I suppose if you were that concerned, they may take it at one of the filling and distribution centres but who is going to take a unwanted cylinder maybe hundreds of miles at their own expense to hand it back not me for one, the company doesn't care so neither do I,
at this point I challenge you to report an abandoned cylinder at the side of the road, or out in the street and see how long it takes them to recover it, don't hold you breath while doing so, I did just that last year and guess what "oh yes thank you sir" if you ring the local council the environmental health dept they will come and pick it up.
.
notice the council not them, and who pays for that us not them. and guess where it would end up, at the recycling centre with all the others.
quote" Everything else that has followed stems from contributors who are trying to justify an illegal practice.
Please define ILLEGAL as in a criminal act, and where does that differ from a breach of contract [civil] in practice.
as a foot note I would add, the agreement one gets from Calor really isn't and agreement at all but a set of terms and conditions, not to satisfy the continuation of supply or use but a get out clause in case of an incident, so it is the end user who takes the blame for not following the conditions, not them, that is why their terms are so explicit. they don't really want to restrict the use and supply of the cylinders. just make a profit selling the gas on a refill, how that cylinder gets to the refilling point, is no concern to them, just that it gets there, the cylinder is just the vessel that the gas goes into nothing more, as long as they keep getting them back refilling them and selling the gas inside. everyone is happy.
whether there is a moral issue is a different matter, suppose it depends on how high the horse is your sat on, some peoples horses are very tall indeed.
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