Lexus RX400H

[Helen_374453292]

Hi looking for some advice. We really like the Lexus RX400H - however we are getting mixed messages as to whether it is a suitable car for towing as it is a hybrid. We were really keen to change our towing car to something which was more environmentally friendly. Can anyone advise? Or does anyone use this vehichle to tow?

Thanks so much Helen

 

[Lutz]

I've had one for a couple of weeks now but I haven't got round to towing with it yet, although the dealer assures me that he has several customers who do and are delighted with it.

What I have been able to establish already, however, is that the main benefits of hybrid drive are really only felt in the solo condition, less when towing. As currently I do less than 25% of my total mileage with the caravan, that doesn't really bother me.

 

[Helen_374453292]

Hi Lutz,

When you do tow - can you keep us posted - we visited a dealer in Chester who said "no problem" - however since coming home to try and find the model we want the Lexus outlet here has said the Hybrid may have problems towing as when it kicks into electrics (ie going slow it does then not have its 4x4 capacity) It is all so confusing - and we are so frustrated as we have been hunting for a new car for ages - and fell in love withe the RX400H.

Thanks for your comments - and Happy Caravanning!

Helen

 

[Lutz]

4 wheel drive is provided only in the electric mode and the car always moves off in that mode, too. The V6 engine kicks in as soon as more power is needed. If necessary, both drives complement each other.

 

[Glenn_5132962]

I guess you'd need to be extra vigilant driving around a campsite in one because if its running on electric people may not hear it coming.

 

[Helen_374453292]

Hi Lutz,

I think I will get my hubby to look into it further - keep us posted on how you get on!

Glenn

Yes you're right about how quiet they are especially important as young children - don't always look!

 

[RogerP]

I test drove the RX 400H a few days ago.

Lovelly(ish) car but not convinced. The dealer was saying all the right things about how the hybrid works and that the city driving I told him I did would virtually use no fuel and was what the Hybrid was built for

So we test drove part of my route to work and in roughly the traffic I'd encounter (it was just before main evening rush hour).

The sales rep was glowingly saying I'd easily get mid 30s mpg. Reality was low 20s and with me driving very slowly not really keeping with the flow etc etc. The rep was unable to put any spin on my test drive experience other than the car had been standing for a couple of weeks and the batteries were quite low.

I asked about towing and his comment was 'yes loads of my customers tow with the hybrid'

'So how much are your towbars then?'

He couldn't tell me oddly enough!! not even a rough idea

I've seen plenty of these cars around my area and the only one I've seen with a towbar fitted was the one on the dealer forecourt which was 9 months old.

I'm not saying that they wont be a good tow vehicle , with a 3.3 ltr engine they should pull a house. But from an environmental perspective I dont think they really acheive the claims Lexus make.

I may be wrong and it will be good to hear how Lutz gets on.

 

[Helen_374453292]

Thanks for your comments Roger ... I am sure my husband will read them with interest!

Helen

 

[Lutz]

Like I said, I haven't towed with it yet, but over the 400 or so miles I have done with it solo so far I am getting between 34 and 35 mpg.

The dealer told me that the towbar (detachable), including electrics and fitting, costs between 1000 and 1300 Euros, but I negotiated with him to install one at no charge if he wanted to sell me the car, which he did.

 

[SimonB]

I have had them as loan cars when my RX300 was in for service, the RX300 did about 18 mpg but we ran it on lpg. Whilst using the RX400 it was only doing about 24 mpg... still not great!!

Lovely car though I am sure it will tow great as did our RX300.

Hve you thought about the RX300 and converting it to gas, we did about 50K in ours on lpg and my dad still owns the car and has had no trouble with it.

 

[D_374316445]

I've had one for a couple of weeks now but I haven't got round to towing with it yet, although the dealer assures me that he has several customers who do and are delighted with it.

What I have been able to establish already, however, is that the main benefits of hybrid drive are really only felt in the solo condition, less when towing. As currently I do less than 25% of my total mileage with the caravan, that doesn't really bother me.

I tow 2 tonnes with RX400h. It will kick in the electric motor as and when it needs it at even at higher speeds to ensure 4 wheel drive either under hard acceleration or braking. I can leave my drive and head off up the slight incline of our road all on battery - very eery !

Towing on motorways I get 17mpg, around mixed roads without towing I get 24 but sometimes up to 30 if I try really hard not to accelerate too hard. The hybrid is just a gimmick and you will find you will barely use battery unless most of your commmute is crawling in city traffic.

Worst aspect of RX400h is the torque steer through the front wheels, tyres regularly let go coming off a roundabout exit and it is not pleasant.

I bought a detachable towbar and electrics (the exact same Westfalia that Lexus fit) for around

 

[Lutz]

Your fuel consumption figures for the RX400h surprise me, although you have had a opportunity to compare it directly with an RX300. I used to have a Monterey 3.5V6 (similar size, similar power output) and I was only getting 20 to 21mpg with that. I am therefore very pleased with the 34 to 35mpg that the RX400h is returning. Apparently the new RX450h is better still.

 

[Helen_374453292]

Your fuel consumption figures for the RX400h surprise me, although you have had a opportunity to compare it directly with an RX300. I used to have a Monterey 3.5V6 (similar size, similar power output) and I was only getting 20 to 21mpg with that. I am therefore very pleased with the 34 to 35mpg that the RX400h is returning. Apparently the new RX450h is better still.

Hi there,

Any update yet Lutz ... have you towed yet with your Lexus??

Best wishes

Helen

 

[Helen_374453292]

Any further updates anyone? Lutz - have you towed yet?

Best wishes

Helen

 

[NigelHutson]

We tested a Lexus RX400H at a towcar event a couple of years ago, and considering that the vehicle was towing a properly ballasted twin axle caravan, there were at least a couple of the judges (including myself) who said that there was a noticable "sway" on a perfectly flat road in still weather conditions at 60 mph. Also, as a towcar, the hybrid system didn't really work. The only time the engine wasn't on was when stationary. I appreciate that the staibility issues very much depend on the size of caravan being towed, but for me, it was a "no". Sorry.

 

[Lutz]

I can't confirm the 'sway' that Nigel refers to (maybe our caravan, being only a 1300kg, is too light to notice any effect), but I do agree that one virtually never tows in a purely electric mode. I think that would be too much to expect anyway.

It would be interesting to know what wheel and tyre equipment the one Nigel drove had. For a car of that size and weight, I would expect these two factors to have more effect on how well the car tows than anything else. Maybe with a different set of tyres, the car would have been less nervous.

 

[Lutz]

I can't confirm the 'sway' that Nigel refers to (maybe our caravan, being only a 1300kg, is too light to notice any effect), but I do agree that one virtually never tows in a purely electric mode. I think that would be too much to expect anyway.

It would be interesting to know what wheel and tyre equipment the one Nigel drove had. For a car of that size and weight, I would expect these two factors to have more effect on how well the car tows than anything else. Maybe with a different set of tyres, the car would have been less nervous.

ps: Mine has 235/55R18 Dunlop SP Sport 270

 

[Helen_374453292]

I can't confirm the 'sway' that Nigel refers to (maybe our caravan, being only a 1300kg, is too light to notice any effect), but I do agree that one virtually never tows in a purely electric mode. I think that would be too much to expect anyway.

It would be interesting to know what wheel and tyre equipment the one Nigel drove had. For a car of that size and weight, I would expect these two factors to have more effect on how well the car tows than anything else. Maybe with a different set of tyres, the car would have been less nervous.

Chaps thanks for your help - I think we now have to admitt defeat and look at another car for towing - we loved the Lexus but it's looks like a no no!

Best wishes

Helen

 

[NigelHutson]

Lutz,

The vehicle that we used was supplied by Lexus and was one of their Press Fleet. I cannot comment upon the wheel/tyre combination, but would assume that Lexus considered them appropriate as they knew what the event was. The tyres were checked prior to the testing so that pressures were not an issue. With that particular caravan (from memory and Abbey Spectrum?) the car performed well enough, and was fine up to the 60 mph test, but as my previous post suggests, at 60 there was a descernable sway, which was commented upon by at least one other of the judges.

Like you say, with your caravan, there's not a problem (which is great for you - after all, no-one would want to spend a small fortune on a car/caravan and then find it a problematic combination) and that may well be down to the weight differnce. All the car/caravan combinations that we used were ballasted so that the caravan was either 85% of the vehicle's kerbside weight, (or at the vehicle's towing limit if that was less than 85%), or to the 'vans maximum if the kerbside weight was in excess of the 85% (as per Land Rover Discovery etc).

Therefore, rather than wheel/tyre combinations being the critical thing, it might be that the Lexus is more suited to lighter caravans?

 

[Helen_374453292]

Lutz,

The vehicle that we used was supplied by Lexus and was one of their Press Fleet. I cannot comment upon the wheel/tyre combination, but would assume that Lexus considered them appropriate as they knew what the event was. The tyres were checked prior to the testing so that pressures were not an issue. With that particular caravan (from memory and Abbey Spectrum?) the car performed well enough, and was fine up to the 60 mph test, but as my previous post suggests, at 60 there was a descernable sway, which was commented upon by at least one other of the judges.

Like you say, with your caravan, there's not a problem (which is great for you - after all, no-one would want to spend a small fortune on a car/caravan and then find it a problematic combination) and that may well be down to the weight differnce. All the car/caravan combinations that we used were ballasted so that the caravan was either 85% of the vehicle's kerbside weight, (or at the vehicle's towing limit if that was less than 85%), or to the 'vans maximum if the kerbside weight was in excess of the 85% (as per Land Rover Discovery etc).

Therefore, rather than wheel/tyre combinations being the critical thing, it might be that the Lexus is more suited to lighter caravans?

Thanks for this Nigel, our Bailey is 1495kg and has the new Alko ATC Trailer Control (ABS for a caravan.) We can see the merits of the car being driven solo but the concern is over the battery. Would it kick in for that extra HP when climbing a hill? I would think it would go straight to petrol form take away rather than battery only up to say 20mph. We could live with the extra running costs when towing but wonder if towing will have an adverse effect on the hybrid set up.

Lexus are only saying, there's no real reason why you shouldn't tow but surprisingly they've not been able to back it up with stats - so hence looking for someone who is using it as a tow car.

 

[NigelHutson]

Thanks for this Nigel, our Bailey is 1495kg and has the new Alko ATC Trailer Control (ABS for a caravan.) We can see the merits of the car being driven solo but the concern is over the battery. Would it kick in for that extra HP when climbing a hill? I would think it would go straight to petrol form take away rather than battery only up to say 20mph. We could live with the extra running costs when towing but wonder if towing will have an adverse effect on the hybrid set up.

Lexus are only saying, there's no real reason why you shouldn't tow but surprisingly they've not been able to back it up with stats - so hence looking for someone who is using it as a tow car.

Hi Helen,

From the experiences that I/we had, the petrol engine was running all the time when towing the big, twin-axle 'van. I don't know whether the electrics are supposed to supplement the petrol when pulling, or the other way around. I would have thought that given the towing limit of the Lexus (whatever it is)then you shouldn't have any problems running/reliability wise (although we did have problems on a couple of occasions when the thing simply refused to wake up in the morning and required Toyota's attention). I can't see the battery being a problem when the car is used for towing any more than it would be solo. However, I must admit that it would appear that the claims for mpg are even more wildly optomistic with hybrid cars than others when used in the real world. For instance, I know several Toyota Prius owners/drivers have only achieved 40ish mpg, which is worse than many larger diesel powere cars.

Just out of interest, I see that you have referred to the Alko ATC as ABS. It isn't ABS, it is a stability control unit that operates the brakes and thus pulls the caravan/trailer back into line.

If you are thinking of buying a Lexus, then why not see if you can borrow one and tow your caravan with it? My father did the same with a Freelander, and the dealer was quite happy to lend him one with a towbar for the weekend. It sealed the deal! Also, if you can take it up to speed you will see for yourself if it is stable or not. After all, with car sales being what they are at the moment.......

 

[Lutz]

I think it would be a bit optimistic to expect the manager of a sales fleet to have so much foresight and have the tyre equipment changed specifically for optimal towing. I find it hard to believe that there is something special about design of the RX400h making it inherently more nervous when towing than, say, it's sister the RX350 and therefore still believe that the most probable explanation lies in the tyre equipment. Maybe I am wrong, but I cannot think of any other logical reason which would account for your experience. Certainly the kerbweight is more than adequate for a 1700kg, even going by the 85% recommendation.

 

[emmerson2]

I tow 2 tonnes with RX400h. It will kick in the electric motor as and when it needs it at even at higher speeds to ensure 4 wheel drive either under hard acceleration or braking. I can leave my drive and head off up the slight incline of our road all on battery - very eery !

Towing on motorways I get 17mpg, around mixed roads without towing I get 24 but sometimes up to 30 if I try really hard not to accelerate too hard. The hybrid is just a gimmick and you will find you will barely use battery unless most of your commmute is crawling in city traffic.

Worst aspect of RX400h is the torque steer through the front wheels, tyres regularly let go coming off a roundabout exit and it is not pleasant.

I bought a detachable towbar and electrics (the exact same Westfalia that Lexus fit) for around

 

[carolynS]

We have been touring in europe now for 3 months with our RX350.Driving solo we average 32 mpg.When towing our 1600kg van we average 21mpg .When in a hurry consumption drops to 18 mpg.Just my opinion but i think the RX was designed more for a luxury 4x4 than a tow vehicle and may explain the "sway" mentioned earlier.If you require a pure 4x4 to tow a van then start to look at a Discovery or something similar.

 

[Lutz]

We ordered a new 1800kg single axle yesterday from a dealer about 200 miles away. As soon as it's ready and we can pick it up I'll be able to comment better on the "descernable sway" that Nigel referred to. As the MTPLM of new caravan is 500kg more than our old one, one would expect that the towing characteristics will, if anything, tend to be more critical.