License for Dog Owners

[ScouseIan]

In response to the post regarding the unfortunate dog attack, I thought I'd post my thoughts on dog ownership.

There are many responsible dog owners out there. Probably the majority of caravanners are given their demographic background. Where I live, there are many gangs of youths who walk around with big aggressive fighting type dogs. These are obviously very intimidating and I wouldn't want to walk past them myself.

I would like to see a situation whereby to own (or exercise) a dog you must have a license. This could be obtained by attending a one day course, for which they would have to pay a fee. Therefore only those people who are serious dog owners would attend. Anyone who did not show the skills required to own and control a dog would not pass the course.

In addition, every owner must have compulsory third-party insurance for their dog in the event they attack another human/dog.

This all seems so reasonable to me. I know it would take years to implement but in 5, 10 or 20 years time we would have a much better situation than we have today.

Hope its not too radical for you all.

Discuss....

 

[LMH]

I totally agree and have been saying something similar for a number of years.

Another thing I believe is that in public places (including tow paths - my bug bear), dogs should be kept on leads. The number of people who let their dogs off lead with NO CONTROL over it whatsoever makes my blood boil.

Also, children should have it instilled in their brains by parents or carers from a very early age that dogs are animals not toys.

Lisa

 

[Alf_374346853]

LMH, agree re the children and indeed adults need to learn dogs aren't toys and I also dislike people thinking my dogs are cute and come over to pat them without asking. My collies are taught not to go near other people and if folk would simply ignore them all would be better. Also know the right way to approach a dog once invited to and not go all silly and make the dog excited and wonder why it jumped up at you. Ignore the dog and 99% of the time a properly trained dog will simply move on.

Regarding the on lead at all times thing. Depends on the dog. If the dog is trained properly, he/she will ignore people and keep going, no bother no fuss. If children are present, the dogs always go on the lead as they (children) tend to be unpredictable and excitable and can make a dog wary/nervous/excited and thus safer for all concerned. Mine aren't perfect, much like most people I know, but sensible common sense approaches are generally best rather than draconian one rule fits all. Safety for all at all times, yep.

 

[Damian]

Dog licences were abolished years ago, but even when in force it made no difference to how a dog or owner behaved, so to even think that attending a one day course will cure all the dog problems is rather like asking the impossible.

All it will do is give the government even more money to squander.

As for dogs on leads, I think most local authorites have bye laws stating that dogs must be on leads on the higway, pavements, etc etc but dogs do need somewhere to exercise, so on a lead at all times is not going to work.

The other problem is who enforces the bye laws, certainly not enough Police to do it, and dog wardens are few and far between.

I would hate to see a situation where the majority of responsible owners and pets are disadvantaged by the irresponsible ones.

Back to the OP,I understood that certain breeds in NI Ihad to be muzzled at all times when outside, including Rotties, Bullmastiffs and most Bull breeds, but maybe that is just Eire.

Lisa, btw PSNI is Police Service Northern Ireland

 

[marlot]

I help rescue dogs, and spend a lot of time helping socialise dogs, especially German Shepherds.

I get really angry with the people who insist on approaching the dogs - especially with children - without asking first.

 

[LMH]

Damian, I do agree it's a nightmare re bringing back the dog licence but something has to change.

Theres thousands of people in this country who have dogs which have not been taught the basics. Owned by young and old, nice and not so nice people.

Re off lead - If a person is unable to call their dog back (sometimes people don't call their dog back even in the most unusual of situations) and if that dog doesn't come back immediately, then it shouldn't be off the lead as its not under the owners control.

I do agree it probably is a sad day when your dogs can't run free and be exercised off lead but there's so many idiot dog owners around along with idiot non dog owners that the situation is becoming unacceptable.

There's areas I don't walk my dogs now for the above reason, it's just too much hassle.

I've got in touch with an acquaintance of mine from Northern Ireland re the dog laws as Ireland (not sure if its both north and south) has different laws to us. I know some breeds certainly have to be muzzled in public.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

Just heard back from Northern Ireland. There's no muzzle laws in Northern Ireland.

Just waiting to hear about Southern Ireland.

Lisa

 

[Phillipcharnwoodforest]

I can't agree more that the dogs should be on a lead. We used to bread German Shepherds for the prison service, and i had my 2 gun gun dogs at the time also I still have a gun dog now by the way. My own view is that even a gun dog should be on a leash unless working and mine is. The Police keep there dogs on a leash most of the time so surely that tells something.

LMH a tow path on a canal bye the way is not a public place and if they choose to be awkward can ask you leave (thats british waterways and the riparian owners). A boater is slighlty different as they pay a "road tax" ( I call it that 'coz I don't know the proper nane for it)

If you apply you can and will be normally given a permit to walk the tow paths.

Just a matter of interest that bit.

 

[ScouseIan]

Damien

I agree, the old dog license was a joke. What I'm trying to suggest is ways to ensure that dogs are only owned by responsible owners. It will hopefully give the police the power to confiscate dogs whereby the dog is not insured/chipped or the person in possession/walking the dog does not have a valid license to control a dog.

When I was a child, the streets were full of stray dogs. I'm sure we can all remember this. Dogs just walking around at random. They all disappeared and we didn't notice. At that time it would have been impossible for the police to enforce these type of rules.

I believe it would also clean the streets / playing fields of dog muck as picking it up and discussing attitudes would also form part of the one day course I mentioned.

We could allow owners say 4 or 5 years to get this owners license. Any responsible dog owner should be willing to pay say

 

[LMH]

Hi Philip

Thanks for the reply.

The tow path doesn't have boats on it and its open to all. It is situated across the road from my house and runs for miles and it is lovely to see all the wildlfe etc and nice to cycle along. However, for me, it's blighted by irresponsible dog owners.

Sometimes you see a dog coming in the distance and its owner is nowhere to be seen. Infact a couple of weeks ago, I was cycling along there and came upon a terrier. I asked it to sit. I waited about 20 minutes with it and thought it might be lost. It didn't have a tag (surprise, surprise) I thought I'll give it another half an hour and if no one turns up, I'll take it home and report it as found. Shortly after, the owner turned up. I did say I thought it was lost etc, and I was just met with a blank expresssion.

Lisa

 

[ScouseIan]

Bear in mind I'm not talking about licenses for dogs; its the owners I'm talking about. In the same way that drivers have a license and not the car.

 

[Chrisbee]

Training for dog owners will do absolutely no good whatsoever. We've all seen drivers who have been trained and have proved their right to drive by passing the driving test then act like idiots. It would be the same for dog owners. You would also still have owners who don't get trained (like the unlicenced/uninsured drivers).

I don't agree with dogs being on the lead all the time either. My border collie is seldom on the lead away from roads but is very well trained. She walks to heel, always returns to my call and will instantly drop to the ground and stay there when told. If owners would only put the work in with a young dog they would reap the rewards for the rest of the dogs life.

 

[LMH]

But that's the problem Chrisbee, some people can't be bothered to put any effort into their dogs and if and when an incident occurs, it's sometimes the responsible people who get it in the neck.

For instance, if you have a well trained/socialised dog yourself and one dog or more come up to your dog in a threatening way or even actually attack your dog, (working as a pack). If your dog retaliates and has some substance to it (physically capable to kill another dog), your dog could end up being labelled as 'dangerous' and dealt with accordingly whether its right or wrong.

You know your dog was only defending itself. These situations don't occur that often, minor spats do, but what would the reaction of a person be whose dog got hold of yours and yours turned round and finished it off? (I appreciate not all dogs might retaliate but you know what I mean).

That's why I do not walk my dogs along the tow path I love so much. It's way too much hassle.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

Southern Ireland:

The Control of Dogs (Restriction of Certain Dogs) Regulations, 1991 impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

* American Pit Bull Terrier

* English Bull Terrier

* Staffordshire Bull Terrier

* Bull Mastiff

* Doberman Pinscher

* German Shepherd (Alsatian)

* Rhodesian Ridgeback

* Rottweiler

* Japanese Akita

* Japanese Tosa

* Bandog

The rules state that:

* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them

* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place

* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.

The rules on muzzling and leashing do not apply to dogs used by the Gardai, the Dublin Harbour Police, State Airport Police and bona fide rescue teams in rescue operations. The rules on muzzling do not apply to guide dogs for the blind.

 

[ScouseIan]

I think the training/license test would do good. At the moment somebody can just pick up a dog anytime anywhere. Only a committed owner will go to the trouble of getting trained. Even then, who is going to insure a 16 year old youth with a pit bull? At the moment he can walk around like he's got a loaded gun with him.

I was running through the woods yesterday with a group and some big dog ran up to us and started jumping up at us. At this point I asked the owner if he would put it on a lead till we had gone and he just shrugged and said 'just run on'. He was laughing. Same thing, he's almost got a weapon and he wouldn't do anything.

I wanted to get away from this dog and one of the thoughts that goes through your brain (and immediately dismissed) is to boot it away. I would never, ever hurt an animal like that and the owner knows it and just keeps laughing.

Its ok though I know where he lives and I'm getting my Barrett M107 sniper rifle out of the loft. he he.

 

[Rioja]

A licence doesn't seem to stop many driving cars so I can't see it doing much to stop the very small number of people who own dogs as a means of threatening people.

Remember that licences cost a lot to actually administer and besides, dog owners pay millions of pounds in VAT on the food and accessories they buy.

I do think that anyone who takes a dog into a public place should have the means to pick up any dog mess, and if unable to demonstrate that they have, should be given an on the spot fine !

 

[LMH]

Ian

You're quite within your rights to give it a damn good boot (making sure of course your boots or shoes are solid).

I've done it many a time.

Lisa

 

[Thorpedo]

I'm afraid Dog licences would be yet another tax on responsible People/owners who would dutifully pay up, but would be another tax to be avoided by the very group of owners it was designed to moderate.

What would happen to all the dogs impounded due to non paying owners?

Who would enforce the system? The police are over stretched already. The current dangerous dog laws arnt imposed with any vigour so why would a bit of expensive paper help.

People power with the help of the media is the only real way tackle badly behaved owners/dogs, letters and photo's to local and national press and TV.

Trouble is the National press is only interested in the sensational savage dog stuff and not general anti social behaviour of non poop scooping etc.

 

[LMH]

Ian

No insurance company in the UK will insure any dog which is a pit-bull or pit-bull type because they are illegal in this country.

Lisa

 

[emmerson2]

Agree about insurance. Should be compulsory. Don't agree about free-running dogs (sorry Lisa), IN THE APPROPRIATE PLACE. An open field is one thing, a crowded shopping arcade is something else.The rule should be "under close control".As has been pointed out, we responsible owners are tarred with the same brush as the idiots.

 

[RogerP]

Its a good iead.....but it all comes down to how you enforce it.

How do you know if I've got a dog , or not , unless you see me with it you've no idea. Then how do you , or I , actually prove its mine.

There's far too many grey areas to cover and thats probably why they abolished the licence years ago.

Its the same as cyclists , people keep saying they should be trained , taxed , insured etc etc. But how do you police it.

 

[LMH]

Hi Roger

If all dogs are either tatooed or chipped (chip needs to be tested now and again as sometimes it can move and be excreted from the body) and paperwork is correctly completed, then ownership can be proved.

Or, you could have your dog dna profiled which I've had done on one of mine (in addition to it already being chipped).

Although I'm an advocate of some sort of licence or even 'an intelligence test' for potential or current dog owners, as you say, the logistics will be a nightmare.

Lisa

 

[LMH]

ooops, sorry forgot to say, some people have been known to chop a dog's ear off to 'remove the tattoo' so that's another pitfall.

Lisa

 

[RogerP]

both my dogs are chipped and the one is tattoed (he was due to go to Sweden as a stud dog but they opted for his brother as his coat was thicker - probably wise as I think he wears the wrong colour dog collar!!)

Its a nice thought but how many folkes out there have a heinze 57 that came from a coming together of the 2 local latch key dogs. Puppies get handed over the fence who's to know who owns the dogs.

I now of people who , having large enough gardens never took their dogs outside their own property. Dogs were well looked after healthy and well loved , just never went out side their own garden. So unless you knew them you'd never know of their dogs.

How do you police that , OK rare but not uncommon.

 

[LMH]

Hi Roger

I don't know if this just applies to SBT's but in New Zealand, you are only allowed three dogs per premise. They have to be registered with 'the officials' and the 'officials' visit the property once a year (or more if there are issues). Obviously there is a fee per dog. My understanding is it works quite well. Obviously, NZ has a smaller human population.

I don't know, something has to change in this country.

Anyway, have to go now as I have a home check to do for the SBT rescue and it's a bit of a drive away. Hopefully the dog will be placed in its new home tomorrow if the family/property etc pass my check.

Lisa

p.s. what breed do you have? love the Sweden story. LOL!!