Loading, Noseweight, and stability

[Rubix]

Further to the post asking about having bikes inside the caravan whilst driving, it got me thinking about stabilty,noseweight, and just general loading of the 'van for travelling.

Are my following ideas correct, please let me know if I'm not.

There are many considerations to bear in mind when loading, such as :

1. Load as much over the axle as possible (to avoid snaking ?)

2. Kepp the 'van's centre-of-gravity as low as possible assist with stabilty (to also supress snaking ?)

3. Whilst trying to keep to 1. and 2. keeping as near to the recommended noseweight as possible (also for stabilty and to avoid snaking ?)

4. Try and stop as much movement of anything inside the 'van as possible.

5. Consider the loading of the tow-car also especially the boot, as this will affect the noseweight.

So, Have I got the above points correct, and have I missed anything ?

Thanks for your help

 

[rob_jax]

Hi,

As you've done, it's a good idea to summarise your thoughts on caravan loading - then it's less likely that you'll be surprised when towing.

And a big YES to all of your points, except for an expansion to item 5 - once you've started putting things in the boot then you need to look at the boot load limit (which may be coupled with the nose-weight but probably won't be) and at the maximum rear axle limit.

Robert

 

[Rubix]

Thanks for your reply Robert.

Where do I get this info about boot limit and axle limit ?

I drive a Ford Focus Estate, and my hand book is ... Well putting it politely ... inadequate. It does not list Noseweight, or max towing limit, or gross train weight.

I have emailed Ford and have yet to hear from them as on my VIN plate there are lots of weights, but I can't make sense of them as they don't add-up (pardon the punn !).

 

[rob_jax]

Hi,

The front and rear maximum axle loads, together with the kerb-weight and gross train weight are on the VIN plate.

They should be stated in the car handbook, together with the maximum boot load - but maybe not.

Robert

 

[Lutz]

The weights on the VIN plate don't need to add up. The details given are maximum front and rear axle load (probably both somewhere around 1000kg or slightly less), gross vehicle weight (probably about 1800 to 1900kg, depending on the model) and gross train weight (again probably somewhere between 3000 and 3400kg). If the figures don't add then this means that you may not make full use of all individual weights. The sum must also be within the limits. You can only make full use of, for example, max. front axle or maximum rear axle load but not both limits at the same time. Equally, you may be able to load the car right up to its gross vehicle weight but then find that you can't make full use of the towing limit without exceeding the gross train weight (a favourite with Renault models).

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Russell.

You make an interesting observation, however the driver is responsible to ensure they know how to handle the vehicle safely, and that must include the use of mirrors.

Some car manufacturers have been making a standard drivers door mirror which has both normal surface and a convex surface area in the same piece of glass. They define the difference in the surface with a visible line on the mirror so you know which part of the mirror you are using.

I am not familiar with the make or model of mirrors that you refer to, however the ones I have come across came with a clear warning note that the convex mirror distorts the image and care must be taken when judging distances and clearances.

I would expect that the manufacture of your mirrors would have included a similar warning. I do not know what else a manufacture could realistically do.

 

[Rubix]

Ooops I think you double posted John L (and I just got some Deja-Vu, as I have just read that post)

Lutz, you seem to know what you are talking about so here are my VIN plate figures (with corresponding confusing letters)

W 1635 Kg

B 2835 Kg

AS 830 Kg

08 275/295 Kg

I know the max towing limit is 1200 Kg (B-W) so can I assume W is gross vehicle loading, and B is gross train weight, does that mean AS is max boot loading (payload). So therefore W - AS is a figure that makes no sense (805 Kg). As for what 08 is, who knows - noseweight ! (just kidding).

I only have my noseweight from the plate that was supplied with my tow-bar (75 Kg) and not in either my car handbook of VIN plate.

Any help much appreciated.

I still have not heard from Ford, That's helpful !!!!

Happy Friday

 

[Rubix]

I have just read another post regarding bikes (but on a seperate rack on the back of the 'van) and I was wondering what peoples experience was regarding loading.

Eg how would the stability of the 'van be affected if you were to have a good noseweight but you had say 100 Kg of "spare" stuff (assume you are well within your MTLPM), and you loaded it two different ways.

First way (sensible) put it over the axle, and secondly 50 Kg at each end.

Would the second bring on a snake like movement (the preverbial tail of a dog wagging) much quicker, and I suppose it would be much more difficult to stop it (and then stop it happening again).

I suppose I have answered my own question, but my only towing experience is a trailer (allbeit a big one) which was no higher than the car. I had some fun when towing my trailer with a flat-packed Shed on it, and I think I loaded with either too little or negative nose weight as it was a real dog to drive.

Ah well you live an learn. And of course I have your wealth of knowledge and helpfulness to call upon. (what a Friday suck up !!!)

Thanks

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello Rubix,

When I have a complex reply to compose, I try to use MS word, then cut and paste to the web site. I had done some research into your points, and was rather proud of the content I had gathered, but dam-it I couldn't have cut the document properly, so you had a second dose mirrors.

I tend to delete the word document and rely on being able to recall previous postings on the web site.

In essence (and from memory), I agree with your suggested actions, but I am not sure if the reasons and criteria you have used are accurate.

In particular, your point 5,

The overall loading of the tow vehicle must be kept within the vehicles load limits.

The manufacture will have stated maximum permitted loads for;

Solo vehicle,

Combined vehicle and trailer

Front and rear axles

Roof load

Boot load

Tow bar load.

It is always the case that you must only load the vehicle so none of the limits are exceeded - This could mean you cannot fully utilise a boot load capacity because you have roof and trailer loads to consider.

However and depending on the construction of the vehicle, the towbar load may be counted as part of the boot load, because many modern cars, fix the towbar to floor panel of the boot. Some commercial and 4x4s have the towbar fitted to the chassis, and thus the towbar is not attached directly to the boot. In these cases the trailer nose load may be accounted separately. You should always consult the vehicle manufactures specifications for clarification on loading matters.

I note that you quote the content of your 'plate' What follows is only a guess, but based on the values the following seems logical:

W 1635 Kg

B 2835 Kg

AS 830 Kg

08 275/295 Kg

W is the maximum permitted load of the solo car

B is the maximum permitted combined load of car and trailer.

So B - W = the mass available for the trailer. (1200Kg)

I am not sure what AS is but it look more like the maximum permitted axel load, but it is not clear to me if this means it is the for front and rear.

08 looks like the maximum boot load, but not sure why two figures.

Usually the layout of these figures is explained in the owners hand book, but in the absence of that you must consult with your dealer or manufacture direct.