Long(er) Journeys

[Shirker]

Every time speeding is mentioned on any forum anywhere on the internet, however irrelevant to the original question in a thread, there's always some holier-than-thou post berating all and sundry. Basic human psychology - you're not going to get a single person to change their behaviour by lecturing, preaching, screaming murderer, etc. etc. - telling another person they are wrong only makes their opinion become more cemented.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Clearly there must be some people who do believe speed limits do not apply to them.

Skirker
As and when contributors stop boasting or advocating illegal activities,or I die, my posts pointing out the irresponsibility or illegality of their actions will stop.

Roger
One of the skills of driving is the ability of the driver to control both the car and their emotions. If they become frustrated to the point that they take rash actions they are not in a fit state to be driving.

Equally it is beholden on drivers they continue to make good progress, so as not to unduly delay or hinder other road users. However that does not permit anyone to exceed their limits.

Speed limits are a an unavoidable fact of driving in Britain. They were present when you took your driving test and thus they are not a new or unexpected limitation.

I too agree that different speed limits for different vehicles on single carriage roads do not make sense. In many cases there may be a case to challenge them, but through the proper channels. No normal driver has any right to choose exceed them.

The fact that other people choose to exceed a speed limit does not make it permissible or any less an offence, and it certainly is not a reason or excuse for anyone else to do it.

Speeding is Illegal.

 

[Shirker]

And you aren't going to influence a single person one way or the other in any way which will get them to change their behaviour by approaching it like that. There is nobody so poorly equipped to persuade others to their point of view than those full of absolute certainty of the wrongness of others.

 

[Lutz]

Roger
Whatever the speed is increased to someone will take the view they can go at 88mph and not get nicked. I'm being generous and giving a 10% margin. So whether it's currently 70mph or in the future 80mph surely John's statement is accurate?

I seriously doubt whether any increase in speed limit will also apply caravan outfits. It would be irresponsible to do so in view of the fact that their critical speed at which instability may occur is in the region of 50 to 60mph.

 

[Gafferbill]

……RogerL.
That’s a very good post (today at 12.16).

I pointed out that your post (Dec15 at 9.50) admitted to speeding on the A9.
The same post also showed that you would take several highly commendable breaks on such a journey.
The breaks are not statuary but the speed limits are!
Surly a slight adjustment in driving technique would be beneficial?

The A9 is a densely policed stretch of road, often by unmarked patrol vehicles, where speeding is targeted for the reasons you state.
Why it has not been upgraded to all dual carriageway is indefensible IMO.......

Lutz has stated why all of us should keep caravan towing speeds down.

 

[RogerL]

John - your rose-tinted theoretical world must be wonderful - I live in the real world where your statement "One of the skills of driving is the ability of the driver to control both the car and their emotions. If they become frustrated to the point that they take rash actions they are not in a fit state to be driving" sadly applies to many drivers so in the overall interests of road safety it's best to adopt a sensible approach which is practical, rather than a dogmatic theoretical one.

I know I'm splitting hairs here but "They (speed limits) were present when you took your driving test and thus they are not a new or unexpected limitation." isn't strictly true - there was no National Speed Limit when I started driving - but of course they have applied at all the subsequent 5-year re-tests I've done and none of the ex-police driving examiners have given me any of the grief that you're trying to.
I do know from those who professionally promote road safety that the single carriageway NSL of 50 for trailers and 40 for goods vehicles is the least known speed limit among the general public, most of whom think that 60 applies to all classes of vehicle - mind you a substantial number of the general public also think that the solo NSL is 60 on a non-motorway dual carriageway!

Anyway back to the thread's subject, long journey's.

 

[RogerL]

I seriously doubt whether any increase in speed limit will also apply caravan outfits. It would be irresponsible to do so in view of the fact that their critical speed at which instability may occur is in the region of 50 to 60mph.

Lutz - I tow at 56 on motorways and dual carriageways as well, for different reasons, so I'm not advocating exceeding 60.

 

[RogerL]

The breaks are not statuary but the speed limits are!
Surly a slight adjustment in driving technique would be beneficial?

I disagree - I think that towing at 50 on single carriageway NSL roads cause congestion and frustration and contributes to the accident rate, not improve it.
I don't care how long a journey takes - if I have to choose between safety (not just mine) and speed, I pick safety every time.

 

[Shirker]

Anyway back to the thread's subject, long journey's.

Not much chance of that now...

At the risk of causing the Prof to have a coronary, it is easy to accidentally exceed the speed limit when towing. As I've said elsewhere, I tow a lot, between 35,000 and 40,000 mile a year and at about 800 to 900 miles a week sometimes you get things wrong. Last night I was overtaking a truck, pulled back into the inside lane once clear and noticed I'd crept up to 73 - oops. Easy to do if the car is fairly powerful and you're heading downhill - too busy looking ahead and in the mirrors to make sure I had pulled out safely and was pulling back in safely. I immediately slowed back to 60 and hit cruise again, but the perfect driver on the road has never existed and it is easy to get it wrong from time to time. I actually think it is safer to give it a squirt up to 65 or so when overtaking a slower vehicle so you can get back in again more quickly without slowing faster moving traffic coming up behind and I know my unit is rock stead at that slightly increased temporary speed. Sadly we don't exist in isolation on motorways and that speed differential with other traffic is all-important, (be they over 70mph or not - that's largely irrelevant).
It's all down to perception of safety, a lovely subject forming part of my job and I can do a one day course in it at a venue of your choice for a very reasonable fee.

Being a wee bit academic about it, what is "safe" is not as simple as we'd all like and driving is a great example as there are so many variables no two situations are alike.

 

[Gagakev]

Anyway back to the thread's subject, long journey's.

Not much chance of that now...

What do you do?
We are thinking of exploring further afeild next year and am looking at perhaps a journey time of approx 8 hours, dont know exactly where yet but that will come.
The most we have done is 4 hours
We would stop off every couple of hours.
Do you go half way and book a site for the night?
Do you travel overnight and go the whole way?
Any other idea's welcome, Thank you
Ps, Will be in the UK

Just a littlle reminder

 

[Parksy]

There are as many different opinions regarding driving technique as there are drivers on the roads and although this forum would hope to promote safe, legal towing and driving practices the members can only offer advice, none of us can compel anyone else to accept the advice.
There are vary few drivers who never stray inadvertently over the speed limits however honourable their intentions, personally I do my very best not to exceed speed limits on various highways and byways but I'm sorry to say that this hasn't always been the case.
As a youngster I regarded myself as a bit of a hot-shot motorcyclist before graduating to cars ( and vans at work) where I continued to disregard speed limits generally speaking. I was lucky enough to escape prosecution but had been on the receiving end of some very well chosen sarcastic barbs when getting told off by various police officers, fortunately for me they didn't take matters further.
As I matured I began to adopt a more mature approach to driving but my eyes were opened when I trained to be a HGV 3 driver.
I swiftly realised that my driving had been shockingly bad and my attitude changed completely to such an extent that when I gained my HGV 1 licence a couple of years later I was competent to carry oiled steel and bright bar, both potentially unstable loads.
The only way that anyone will alter their driving technique is through experience, no amount of internet condemnation will change things that are so personal and subjective to each individual.
My TomTom sat nav has a range of warning bells ( or bleeps, there is a choice of noises) which can be pre-set for different speeds.
I use different soft chimes for 48mph and 58mph and use my sat nav as a speed monitor when towing, the chimes mean that I don't need to pay undue attention to the speedometer on trunk roads or motorways but we should all try to remember that the speed limits are not targets, they are absolute maximum speeds.

 

[anotherDavid]

The origional question was about long journeys, I rarely tow at more than 50mph not because I am a goody goody but because its too much like hard work and it is the limit in much of Europe anyway for towing. I have done 420 miles a couple of times across Spain when we made frequent stops and eventually spent the night on a truck stop with no incentive to arrive any earlier.More often 250 miles is our limit and in the UK that would certainly be as much as we could tolerate. We are fortunate to have plenty of time and enjoy the journeys but if we hadnt I think we would look for destinations nearer home rather than do marathons.
David

 

[Sproket]

What do you do?
We are thinking of exploring further afeild next year and am looking at perhaps a journey time of approx 8 hours, dont know exactly where yet but that will come.
The most we have done is 4 hours
We would stop off every couple of hours.
Do you go half way and book a site for the night?
Do you travel overnight and go the whole way?
Any other idea's welcome, Thank you
Ps, Will be in the UK

Just a littlle reminder

Kev,
When we travel a fair distance, we always set off in the early hours & aim to be in the services having a kip whilst the morning rush is on, then onto the destination for no later than dinner time.

For us to come from Leeds to Stowford medows farm, it's 302 miles & for that distance i would drive through the night, with a few stops thrown in,
So for you to come up to Yorkshire, because of the very heavy traffic round the M42 I would want to be getting on to that stretch of road for about 4am & then when you get up to the Donnington park services,
as parked below

get some kip for a hour or so, ( two hours only free parking so set your alarm for an hour & half

) then steady away up to Yorkshire........
It's also cooler in the back of the truck through the night for our dogs

 

[Gagakev]

We are fortunate to have plenty of time and enjoy the journeys but if we hadnt I think we would look for destinations nearer home rather than do marathons.
David

Hi David, thanks for your reply as I am located down here in Devon and had the van a few years we have done all the local stuff, Devon, Cornwall, Somerset, Dorset and up to the Oxford area we are looking to venture further for a full week, dont get me wrong it is lovely down here but need to spread our wings but wil stay more local for the shorter weekend, Bank holiday times. We are also reluctant to stay at the same site even if it is a really good one, after all it is a touring van we all use.

So what I have learnt so far, excepting I'm not allowed to speed

Think we will look for somewhere in the Yorkshire area, any recommendations greatfully received, leave in the early hours, breaks every couple of hours and try to arrive on site lunch/mid afternoon, set up and have a beer

Ok folks you can carry on with your speeding debate now, cheers

 

[Sproket]

Kev,
Here are just a few to be going on with

http://www.yorkshire.com/destinations
http://www.visityorkshire.co.uk/
http://www.visittheyorkshiredales.co.uk/
http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/
http://www.visityork.org/#
http://www.iknow-yorkshire.co.uk

 

[Gafferbill]

……from what you have said I would not go that far for a week.

I would look at South Wales or Southern Hampshire and the Isle of Wight a trip of around 160 miles.
Plenty of campsites in each area and plenty to do for a week.

 

[Gagakev]

Kev,
Here are just a few to be going on with

http://www.yorkshire.com/destinations
http://www.visityorkshire.co.uk/
http://www.visittheyorkshiredales.co.uk/
http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/
http://www.visityork.org/#
http://www.iknow-yorkshire.co.uk

Thanks Sprockets, all bookmarked and awaiting investigation over the weekend

 

[Martin24]

Have to say that we're stuck in East Yorkshire for reasons currently beyond our control so all but weekend trips (which tend to be N yorks) are either spent in Hampshire close to my family and friends or in Devon where SWIMBO's so most of our journeys are fairly long, especially with the child and dog stops which seem to take forever!! How can three girls take so long in the toilets??? However when we finally move to devon, which we hope to be 8 years time at the most, we've already decided we'll never head north of Bristol for anything other than university runs! Roll on the shorter journies.

 

[Gagakev]

……from what you have said I would not go that far for a week.

I would look at South Wales or Southern Hampshire and the Isle of Wight a trip of around 160 miles.
Plenty of campsites in each area and plenty to do for a week.

Hi Gaffer also been to South Wales, North Wales and Isle of Wight albeit in statics before our touring days.
But The Hampshire area is food for thought for the future, Thanks again

 

[Gagakev]

Have to say that we're stuck in East Yorkshire for reasons currently beyond our control so all but weekend trips (which tend to be N yorks) are either spent in Hampshire close to my family and friends or in Devon where SWIMBO's so most of our journeys are fairly long, especially with the child and dog stops which seem to take forever!! How can three girls take so long in the toilets??? However when we finally move to devon, which we hope to be 8 years time at the most, we've already decided we'll never head north of Bristol for anything other than university runs! Roll on the shorter journies.

Hi Martin, perhaps our first long distance one will be the last

Got to try it, just one of those challenges in life that has to be done.

 

[Gagakev]

Kev please dont tell me thats non stop,Surely thats with some sort of break?

Seth, there were stop overs, Heathrow to Dubai, Stop over, Dubai to Melbourne, Stop over, Melborne to New Zealand(Auckland)
27 hours was total but still knackaring

 

[Sproket]

Kev please dont tell me thats non stop,Surely thats with some sort of break?

Seth, there were stop overs, Heathrow to Dubai, Stop over, Dubai to Melbourne, Stop over, Melborne to New Zealand(Auckland)
27 hours was total but still knackaring

Have done Hawaii to Salt lake City then change to Atlanta then change to Manchester
Saw two sunrises on the way back,
Set off from Hawaii 11.55pm Sat night landed in Manchester about 9am Monday morning

 

[ValA.]

Devon to Yorkshire - doddle! Just go for it. We've done it in reverse! Not a problem.

We've also done Bristol and back just for an overnight, and Dorset and back for a weekend! One weekend we did - Home - Dorset - overnight, Dorset - home, then the following weekend - Home - Dorset - overnight - Cumbria - overnight - Scotland - lunch - home!

 

[Dustydog]

Devon to Yorkshire - doddle! Just go for it. We've done it in reverse! Not a problem.

We've also done Bristol and back just for an overnight, and Dorset and back for a weekend! One weekend we did - Home - Dorset - overnight, Dorset - home, then the following weekend - Home - Dorset - overnight - Cumbria - overnight - Scotland - lunch - home!

That was a long way for a haggis Val

 

[xtrailman]

I set the cruise to 56mph (GPS) on both motorways and single carriageways (!) - it's slow enough to be relaxing and fast enough not to have queues behind, particularly on the A9 from perth to Inverness.

...........but unfortunately illegal towing a caravan on a single carriageway road where the speed limit is 50 mph.

But having said that the HGV's will not be doing 40 mph which is their speed limit......

I know to both hence the (!).
I also know that 56mph in a 50 limit is within ACPO guidelines for no prosecution (10% +1mph) - I'm also aware that not all police forces operate ACPO guidelines - and also aware that even those forces that do operate ACPO guidelines can be overuled by the officer's discretion if they feel that prosecution is in the public interest.
As a crime, doing 56 in a 50 limit is on a par with doing 78 in a 70 which is what the vast majority of car drivers do!
I'm not offering advice to anyone else, just telling what I do.

And here endeth the lesson.
.There's always going to be some to$$er who is above the Law.
They are the one's who kill someone and pretend they know best.
Why do we have Laws in the first place??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

ethe LAw

I think that's a bit over the top DD.
After all everyone is at sometime guilty of speeding, maybe not intentionally but it can happen.
I speed every day, its dangerous speeds for the conditions that's the real enemy.