LPG - New Website

[Lol1]

Getting a headache here fellas, I have just finished a COSS course and my head is full, this new information is pushing some very important knowledge outa my head. Limited room in here peeps!

 

[CliveV]

Oh - and why if it is lower than 99 octane rating can I retune my engine to the settings it had when I could get hold of 5 star?

I understand the basic biochemistry and hear what you say - but from a practical view point if LPG was 90 octane my V8 would splutter and die.

Instead it purrs like a pussycat on LPG and lumpily grumbles on petrol.

 

[rob_jax]

Hey by the end of this you'll all have a pass in Chemistry.

LPG is a natural mixture of the C3 to C4 petroleum hydrocarbons, linear chains, branched chains, and all. Plus a little bit of C2 and C5.

The refinery distills the fraction from the crude oil or from the gas field. So you get a bit of everything that boils between -40

 

[Lol1]

OK, there goes the "distance between detonators on a T2-H", goodbye critical safety information. Hello "LPG is a natural mixture of the C3 to C4 petroleum hydrocarbons, linear chains, branched chains, and all. Plus a little bit of C2 and C5".

Finite amount of brain cell for this info, don't make me borrow from the humour section.

 

[CliveV]

Hey by the end of this you'll all have a pass in Chemistry.

LPG is a natural mixture of the C3 to C4 petroleum hydrocarbons, linear chains, branched chains, and all. Plus a little bit of C2 and C5.

The refinery distills the fraction from the crude oil or from the gas field. So you get a bit of everything that boils between -40

 

[emmerson2]

All you doubters about LPG, take a look at my post on "which 4x4". To back up my claims, I'm in South Wales, and would welcome any of you to a test drive in my car, on petrol then LPG, defy you to tell the difference, except as has been stated, by its lumpy running at tickover on petrol.You would, of course have to prove to me that you were insured to drive my car.This is a genuine offer, because, like so many other arguments,most of the "knockers" are those who've never tried it.

 

[CliveV]

Thanks for a bit of reality emmerson - I agree once you have seen the benefits of LPG no sensible person would go back! I also appreciate your comment that all I was initially doing was letting people know about the new boost website. Why is it that some people react emotionally to anything new or different to what they have?

I still have an issue on octane rating tho' - If LPG was only 90 as Rob says how on earth would our engines run on it?

The Pentane isomer techy bit from Rob may be true but Butane can also exist in two forms linear or "T" - and in any event - LPG has virtually NO Pentane anyway? If it did the motorhomes that fill up their internal tanks for cooking and heating would have a problem I think.

I think I will stick with the accepted wisdom that LPG is c. 99 Octane. After all that is what my old non ECU RR is tuned for.

Oh! and don't you just love being able to cruise round dear old Red Ken's congestion charge playground FREE OF CHARGE.

Now there's a man who knows a polluting fuel when he charges for it!

LOL !!!

 

[emmerson2]

The techy bits go over my head clive,and I keep well away from the big smoke, but i do love the extra jangle in my pocket! Keep on gassing.

 

[giovanni_5060838]

whats with you clive, ease up a bit, nothing wrong with lpg,

its cheap and if i had a petrol car would consider it.

its the environment bit thats being distorted.

heres an example.

which car/s are cleaner... your range rover, or my vectra tdi or

the wife alfa 2.4 jtd? i think i know what you would say,and i

think you have the wrong end of the political stick.

now ALL these emissions are based on quantity of fuel, right.

so lets say just to please you, that lpg power is better than

diesel on co and co2 [which it is not] and lets say your nox

emissions are 100% lower [again it is not]

now i drive either my 45mpg car or 50 mpg car and use 1 gallon

of fuel. now you cannot use just 1 gallon because you too have

to do the same journey 45 or 50 miles,see what i am getting at.

you will need to use over 2 or even 3 gallons to do the same

journey.

so for the same journey you WILL be poluting far more than me.

you can only compare your lpg range rover to a petrol range rover. not exactly the environmentalist that some would claim.

this reasoning applies to so many larger engined conversions,

who then go on to claim how green they are, when they are not.

like i said nothing against lpg...its cheap...just don't like

it when people are mislead to how green they are..as they are

not green if you are using 2 or 3 times more fuel than someone

else is...

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Clive,

Er, no. On the line in my reply "LPG is a natural mixture of the C3 to C4 petroleum hydrocarbons, linear chains, branched chains" the bit about "branched chains" was easy to skip because on my screen it appears wrapped over two lines.

The branched chains have a higher octane number than the linear chains, so LPG will contain propane, iso-butane (branched - so has a higher octane number than butane), butane, and other branched isomers.

There will be a trace (1% or less) of C2 and C5 components because the production process uses distillation to refine the fuel. And these compounds (at this trace level) will have no real effect on the properties of the fuel.

The more propane and iso-butane (particularly) in the fuel, the higher the octane number, conversely more butane and the octane number is reduced.

Robert

 

[CliveV]

Hi Gio - where on earth do you get the 2 to 3 times from? That only works if as you say you start comparing "apples and oranges" - which is an unfair comparison. If you do this then it is as I said before - you are against my choice of car rather than my choice of fuel. Typical "Anti" tactic I am afraid!! I do need my 4x4 because of what I do! A salon car would be as useful as a chocolate teapot and illegal towing what I regularly tow and I am not talking about our caravan.

So in a "real world" comparison - even if you just go on the lower calorific value of LPG the techies reckon no more than a 15% drop in mpg for a given vehicle. But as I say - the higher Octane rating compensates a great deal here - despite what Rob says.

So as a rough guide I would estimate that on an urban journey a diesel Vectra if it did say, 40mpg at a cost of

 

[rob_jax]

Hi Clive,

I've been busy over the weekend, I left my office in Rotterdam on Friday afternoon, collected my wife from Rotterdam airport and we had a weekend at the Christmas markets in Brugge then Middelburg - absolutely excellent.

Concerning LPG and Octane ratings, we are both right and both wrong. I spoke with a colleague at Shell Pernis and he confirmed that LPG from Pernis is 92+ octane, and that LPG destined for the UK is 95+ octane. More of the (lower octane)Butane is removed for the UK market.

So the stuff we usually see in Europe is 92 octane, and you see 95+ octane in the UK.

This also explains the differences between car specifications - when Volvo made LPG bi-fuel cars for Holland, the power rating was down compared to the UK specification car.

This difference in power outputs has now stopped, because all the Dutch bi-fuel cars are now using CNG (compressed natural gas) from the massive natural gas fields off the Dutch coast.

So sorry for any confusion, I should know better but Brugge was great, Robert

 

[CliveV]

Thanks for that Rob - What are your thoughts on the events at Hemel Hempstead over the w/e?

If it had to hapen at least the timing was such that no serious injuries of deaths - thank goodness.

That cloud of smoke does not look good for those underneath it.

And there's me having a moan at the odd belch of diesel exhaust - puts it into perspective a bit - dosn't it!!

 

[rob_jax]

I've been following it today on the BBC web-site, the excellent Guardian Unlimited web-site, plus the coverage on Algemene Dagblad www.ad.nl - this Dutch newspaper has some good photos and by good I mean photos with a different perspective.

I understand that the emergency services are doing an excellent job, and thankfully no one is dead, but the fire isn't out yet.

No real thoughts on the smoke - hopefully most or all of it will be soot - and it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I'd be more worried if the berms around the tanks leak.

Robert