MAM, MPTLM, permissible gross weight - help?!?!

[Turps]

Apologies if it has been asked before but I am a wannabe caravanner and trying to figure out my options!
I passed my test in 1999 so only have cat B.
I drive a ford galaxy LX 1.9 diesel and the permissible gross weight is 2510kg!! Is this the MAM??
So as I can only tow 3500kg I'd only be able to tow a 990kg van without doing B+E?
I'm guessing not v likely to get a 5 berth for that weight?? Is it the MPTLM of the van that needs to be 990 or less? The acronyms confuse me. Can you search vans by weight?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your wisdom!!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Apologies if it has been asked before but I am a wannabe caravanner and trying to figure out my options!
I passed my test in 1999 so only have cat B.
I drive a ford galaxy LX 1.9 diesel and the permissible gross weight is 2510kg!! Is this the MAM??
So as I can only tow 3500kg I'd only be able to tow a 990kg van without doing B+E?
I'm guessing not v likely to get a 5 berth for that weight?? Is it the MPTLM of the van that needs to be 990 or less? The acronyms confuse me. Can you search vans by weight?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for your wisdom!!

Do not worry about asking such things, the fool is teh person who does not ask.

I'll appologise now becasue the weights issues can be confusing.

Your 1999 Cat B licence allows you to drive a tow vehicle and trailer of combined MAM not exceeding 3500kg.

The MAM stands fro Maximum Authorised Mass, and its all about the maximum weight capacities not measured weights. So you tell us your Galaxy has permissible gross weight is 2510kg This is the cars MAM.

So that limits the MAM of your trailer to 3500 - 2510 = 990kg

The caravans MTPLM is the same as its MAM so you can only tow a trailer (caravan) whose capacity does not exceed 990kg

Incidentally any caravan with and MTPLM of 990 or less will be good match for the Galaxy

There are various sites that may find caravans be weight, but all the manufacturers should publish weight data about their caravans.

 

[Martin24]

There may be a remote possibility of getting an '80's or '90's 5 berth under 1000kg but could be hard to find one. Equipment wise not much different to today's offerings so as long as it's damp free a van of this age could still be a good buy.

If you're thinking of a newer van then looks like the test may well be your only option.

 

[Turps]

Provided it was dry, older would be fine by me as a starter van. Could then think of the test if we decided to stick with it. (I've been caravanning from 3 weeks old, but other half not yet convinced..!!)
I'll have a look about and see- thanks again!

 

[Turps]

Another question! Is it the actual weight of vehicle and caravan or theoretical weights? So if I made sure combined weight was

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

Please read what the Prof wrote:
"Your 1999 Cat B licence allows you to drive a tow vehicle and trailer of combined MAM not exceeding 3500kg."

MAM = Maximum Authorised Mass, ie plated max weights NOT what you load them to.

 

[Turps]

Bummer. Thanks

 

[otherclive]

Bette that you found out now rather than after buying car and caravan. Why not do the B E test over the Autumn then waltz into the car and caravan dealerships in the gloomy days after New Year. Then you can acquire keen deals. Cannot think that I've ever bought a car or caravan other than in the dark dank days of winter.

 

[Turps]

True. Good plan!

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Hi Turps,

Sorry, but the Prof & WoodlandCamper are both wrong re the loadings of the caravan that you could theoretically tow. I used to think that the answer they both put forward was right until I was directed to this link, this really spells it out in great & easy to understand, detail!!!!

Link here: http://www.blueskyholdings.co.uk/the%20laymans%20guide%20to%20towing%20in%20the%20uk%20v1.03.pdf

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Sorry, should have said that the KEY INFO is on pages 4 & 5 starting at 2 Vehicle restrictions, although the whole "article" is very informative!

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Turps,

Sorry, but the Prof & WoodlandCamper are both wrong re the loadings of the caravan that you could theoretically tow. I used to think that the answer they both put forward was right until I was directed to this link, this really spells it out in great & easy to understand, detail!!!!

Link here: http://www.blueskyholdings.co.uk/the%20laymans%20guide%20to%20towing%20in%20the%20uk%20v1.03.pdf

Hello GeorgiePorgie

I have read your link, and as far as I can see it concurs exactly with the information I have given. Please tell me how you think it differs?

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hi Turps,

Sorry, but the Prof & WoodlandCamper are both wrong re the loadings of the caravan that you could theoretically tow. I used to think that the answer they both put forward was right until I was directed to this link, this really spells it out in great & easy to understand, detail!!!!

Link here: http://www.blueskyholdings.co.uk/the%20laymans%20guide%20to%20towing%20in%20the%20uk%20v1.03.pdf

Please Georgie I really want to know how you think the advice I have given is wrong, Whilst I don't believe I am wrong on these points, if I am wrong I wan't to know so I can revise my position..

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

Hello ProfJohnL,

My sincere apologies, I misread your post & I assumed you meant that the OP couldn't tow a caravan who's MTPLM exceeded 990kg

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello ProfJohnL,

My sincere apologies, I misread your post & I assumed you meant that the OP couldn't tow a caravan who's MTPLM exceeded 990kg

Hello George,

Thank you for responding,

I am very confident my advice is correct as I have spent many years reviewing the legislation (the actual Acts of Parliament) to find answers for caravanners.

The OP's has stated he only has Cat B on his licence. This means he has strict limits (with no permitted tolerance) on Maximum Authorised Masses (MAM) of car and any trailers he might wish to tow.

A post January 1st 1997 Cat B entitlement permits the driver :-

A vehicle up to 3,500kg MAM carrying no more than 8 passengers plus driver, with trailer up to 750kg MAM (which gives a combined MAM of 4250kg) or with a braked trailer over 750kg MAM if combined vehicle and trailer MAM isn’t more than 3,500kg

I admit there is no obvious logic to the permitted combinations, but that is the law in this case.

It is my experience and expectation that all 5 berth caravans will have an MTPLM that exceeds 750kg, and will be braked, so the higher 4250kg limit will not apply, leaving the OP a combined MAM of only 3500kg.

The OP's stated intention revolved around a Galaxy with a MAM of 2510kg. By simple maths:-

(Cat B MAM Limit 3500kg) - (Galaxy MAM 2510kg) = (990kg Maximum MAM for the caravan.)

Conveniently a Caravan's MTPLM is also it's MAM, so sadly the OP is limited to a trailer whose MTPLM does not exceed 990kg MTPLM or MAM

Respectfully I suggest you carefully reread the article you pointed to which concurs in every respect with this advice.

PJL

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hello ProfJohnL,

My sincere apologies, I misread your post & I assumed you meant that the OP couldn't tow a caravan who's MTPLM exceeded 990kg

What makes you think the OP can have a trailer with an MTPLM (MAM) that exceeds 990kg?

Additional information added through edit.

I have to assume you have read the article, but have misunderstood it, and I suspect you have made one important and surprisingly common mistake:-

The section you point to "pages 4 & 5 starting at 2 Vehicle restrictions" is about the mechanical capability of the tow vehicle. The first mistake is to assume the mechanical ability of can override the effect of your driving licence. No it can't and any one who does drive with a combined MAM in excess of their licence entitlement is driving without a licence and thus illegally.

 

[Raywood]

Hello ProfJohnL,

My sincere apologies, I misread your post & I assumed you meant that the OP couldn't tow a caravan who's MTPLM exceeded 990kg

What makes you think the OP can have a trailer with an MTPLM (MAM) that exceeds 990kg?

Additional information added through edit.

I have to assume you have read the article, but have misunderstood it, and I suspect you have made one important and surprisingly common mistake:-

The section you point to "pages 4 & 5 starting at 2 Vehicle restrictions" is about the mechanical capability of the tow vehicle. The first mistake is to assume the mechanical ability of can override the effect of your driving licence. No it can't and any one who does drive with a combined MAM in excess of their licence entitlement is driving without a licence and thus illegally.

I would add that not only is it illegal, it would invalidate your insurance, if your insurer wanted to take the point, which in the event of an accident could be very costly indeed.