Manual or Automatic ?

[borderbilly]

Well my 10shillings worth, I have at my disposal a manual and a auto, and for me the manual wins 🏆 hands down. Just my preference, same as some on here don't like haggis while others do, that's why we are all different. Happy tugging 👌

 

[Gafferbill]

......there is no doubt that towcars with a fluid flywheel auto gearbox are far more common than they used to be as are heavier caravans. Some of us will remember the common smell of burning clutches as caravans were being positioned on pitches using a manual gearbox.
Autoboxes and movers have made this smell and it's clutch damage a thing of the past.
It is possible with a manual gearbox towcar to fail to get going again after being forced to stop by traffic on a steep hill.
Much slipping of the clutch together with engine revs many be the only way to get going again.
My last manual towcar had 10 forward and 2 reverse gears with a very low ratio 1st gear and reverse so no problem.
Now tow with a 6 speed fluid flywheel auto.
Wouldn't personally tow with a standard manual.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As Gafferbill has pointed out manual gearboxes (or rather the clutch) often seem to suffer when trying to manoeuvre a caravan at slow speed.

But there are many reasons why auto boxes ( of all types) put less strain on the engine and transmissions, becasue you normally can't over rev cars with automatic gearboxes, plus the gear changes are also much better controlled and smoother to prevent excess loads caused by driver pushing it too much or genuine error.

 

[Devonisheaven]

I am just pleased my car has electric windows and AC……How things have moved on. 👍😂

 

[otherclive]

......there is no doubt that towcars with a fluid flywheel auto gearbox are far more common than they used to be as are heavier caravans. Some of us will remember the common smell of burning clutches as caravans were being positioned on pitches using a manual gearbox.
Autoboxes and movers have made this smell and it's clutch damage a thing of the past.
It is possible with a manual gearbox towcar to fail to get going again after being forced to stop by traffic on a steep hill.
Much slipping of the clutch together with engine revs many be the only way to get going again.
My last manual towcar had 10 forward and 2 reverse gears with a very low ratio 1st gear and reverse so no problem.
Now tow with a 6 speed fluid flywheel auto.
Wouldn't personally tow with a standard manual.

Out of interest what was the manual towcar with the plethora of gears……Scania?

 

[otherclive]

I took a very new company car and caravan to Scotland, stopping of en route at a CL in Penrith. The description of the CL belied its undulating and sloping nature. Pitching the van in the only level area required reversing up a grass slope as the farmer had dumped manure in what would have been the natural route driving up to the pitching area. The acrid smell stayed with the car for the rest of the holiday.

Mind you next time we used the CL with an auto Gen 1 Sorento shod in AT tyres even that car got stuck on account of the farmer having just cut the wet grass.

In fact I’ve only got stuck three times and all were in different CL/CS in Penrith with autos and 4WD. The company car with its lowly 89bhp Ford diesel and manual gearbox made it, albeit with some advanced clutch wear. But it last the three year until I “retired” again. Penrith is a soggy area though at the best of times.

 

[Dustydog]

Out of interest what was the manual towcar with the plethora of gears……Scania?

If only you knew!

But Clive my last two Mk 1 Sorentos also had 10 forward and two reverse via a high / low transfer box. It was fantastic in a bog.

The first Sorie was manual. Had a new clutch and even more expensive a new DMF .Dual Mass Flywheel🤬

 

[otherclive]

If only you knew!

But Clive my last two Mk 1 Sorentos also had 10 forward and two reverse via a high / low transfer box. It was fantastic in a bog.

Oops a senior moment🙈

Auto no problems in 70 k miles not like its predecessor a Disco 2 auto.

 

[Dustydog]

This was Ludlow in 2018. Was your Sorento a standard front Clive? Was that your Swift next to me?

 

[Gafferbill]

Out of interest what was the manual towcar with the plethora of gears……Scania?

Nissan Terrano 2.7 TD.

 

[otherclive]

This was Ludlow in 2018. Was your Sorento a standard front Clive? Was that your Swift next to me?View attachment 7599

Dusty, it was an ex demonstrator and I think the front was standard. My wife sold the Disco 2 whilst I was in Oz. Not my caravan, although this was us parked next to you at Wheathills, in April 2018.




PS there are some nice ones on Autotrader with sensible mileages and still looking good inside too. ( one below 50k) and only 2-3 owners. Mrs OC was almost ready to take a punt on one and travel back in time. 🤔

 

[borderbilly]

Dusty, it was an ex demonstrator and I think the front was standard. Not my caravan, although this was us parked next to you at Wheathills, in April 2018.

View attachment 7604

Somebody got the Barbie going

 

[Sam Vimes]

So, back to the great Auto Vs Manual debate. It seems to me in reading all these posts that the main factor for choosing Auto is personal preference. The only indication that it maybe better than manual is potential clutch problem under some conditions.

The latter is something that I considered when switching from auto to manual but so far hasn't been an issue on the few occasions when I've faced a hill start or manouvering for example. Maybe that's because I have a small 2 birth van under 1200kg.

I really like and would prefer - all things being equal - an Auto, but other factors such as safety, fuel efficiency, type of car, size, price and availability kept pointing me in the direction of a manual. So that's what I went for and haven't looked back since.

 

[Buckman]

I really like and would prefer - all things being equal - an Auto, but other factors such as safety, fuel efficiency, type of car, size, price and availability kept pointing me in the direction of a manual. So that's what I went for and haven't looked back since.

What safety issues concerns you? Autos are now more efficient than manuals. Most car you have the choice of either the auto or the manual, just a case of preference. We would never consider a manual again unless I found the Fountain of youth and became a boy racer. LOL!

 

[Sam Vimes]

Safety in general - some cars have a better rating than others irrespective of auto or manal.

As for Autos being more efficient that manual, in terms of mpg, then maybe some are but its not always the case. I haven't found one yet that is the same car with choice of transmission where the Auto gives more mpg than the Manual but I'd like to know if there is one and it meets all my other criteria.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Safety in general - some cars have a better rating than others irrespective of auto or manal.

As for Autos being more efficient that manual, in terms of mpg, then maybe some are but its not always the case. I haven't found one yet that is the same car with choice of transmission where the Auto gives more mpg than the Manual but I'd like to know if there is one and it meets all my other criteria.

What makes the most difference to fuel efficiency is the way a vehicle is driven, and whether its carrying unnecessary weight, and if there are things like roof racks or extended mirrors left on the vehicle that upset the airflow around the vehicle especially at speed.

As I was at pains to point out earlier, the typical torque converter auto's are inherently less efficient than auto's that lock up or use clutches. An expertly driven manual might have economy becasue the driver might be able to preselect better gear ratios before reaching an change in the road, where as most auto 's react after the conditions change. But for most normal drivers modern auto's are consistently better than most driver will achieve.

 

[borderbilly]

+ about 4k of a price difference.

 

[Devonisheaven]

So, back to the great Auto Vs Manual debate. It seems to me in reading all these posts that the main factor for choosing Auto is personal preference. The only indication that it maybe better than manual is potential clutch problem under some conditions.

The latter is something that I considered when switching from auto to manual but so far hasn't been an issue on the few occasions when I've faced a hill start or manouvering for example. Maybe that's because I have a small 2 birth van under 1200kg.

I really like and would prefer - all things being equal - an Auto, but other factors such as safety, fuel efficiency, type of car, size, price and availability kept pointing me in the direction of a manual. So that's what I went for and haven't looked back since.

Safety! 🤔🤷

 

[Sam Vimes]

But for most normal drivers modern auto's are consistently better than most driver will achieve.

Very difficult to prove. You'd need to get the same car in both versions for the same driver over the same route to test if that was true.

 

[Buckman]

Very difficult to prove. You'd need to get the same car in both versions for the same driver over the same route to test if that was true.

It is like using Cruise Control. Is it more economical to use than not using it? I would say no CC is more economical.

 

[Dustydog]

As I was at pains to point out earlier, the typical torque converter auto's are inherently less efficient than auto's that lock up or use clutches.

No pains please we are all in the same team😎

This surprised me:
Packard's Ultramatic transmission, introduced in 1949,The first with lockable TC.

Historically Borg Warner auto boxes were common place in BMC cars of the 60s. TC slippage was legendary.
By 1969 Aisin became a major player and now provide state of the art auto boxes to most main stream vehicle makers.

The Japanese seem to have an ability to take someone else’s ideas and turn them into a great piece of engineering.

I suggest to anyone who hasn’t driven a car with an Aisin modern auto box to give it a try.
You will be impressed 👍

 

[Buckman]

How would you know that a car has the Asian transmission? Most sales people have no idea so pointless asking them.

 

[Dustydog]

How would you know that a car has the Asian transmission? Most sales people have no idea so pointless asking them.

Google😉

 

[Hutch]

How would you know that a car has the Asian transmission? Most sales people have no idea so pointless asking them.

That's where the difference between people. Some people buy a car just for the looks of it. Other buy the car for the looks and for the type of engine, gearbox, drive system etc. Air-conditioning or Climate control.

 

[otherclive]

What safety issues concerns you? Autos are now more efficient than manuals. Most car you have the choice of either the auto or the manual, just a case of preference. We would never consider a manual again unless I found the Fountain of youth and became a boy racer. LOL!

If you look at the NCAP website and see the difference between cars wrt Occupant Safety. This is primarily the protection given by the structure, aided by airbags, safety belts, seats and head restraints. Some cars reach the high 90 score, others are at 70%. Whilst technical safety aids can help avoid a crash, or reduce the effects of a crash, at the end of the day it’s the structure and primary protection that counts in my choices.

Having had two write offs, Volvo 740 estate, and Saab 9000 all we suffered were stiff necks. So if we decide to change cars in the future the CRV and Forester are high on the list.