MTPLM dilema

[Newtonian]

Not being awkward but I've asked a very straightforward question I would like advice on and this has turned into other people's gas bottle laws, weight plate upgrades and what not.

As San said I would like so advice with only really having 40kg spare.

A couple of bolts sheered off my motor mover which I don't know where they go and it's 12 years old, so I could repair or or utilise the extra weight as I'm not sure what else I can remove from the van

Can we return to the subject and will certain members stop being confrontational with others?

This is not the first time I've had to intervene and sanctions may apply if it continues.

 

[Lutz]

Not being awkward but I've asked a very straightforward question I would like advice on and this has turned into other people's gas bottle laws, weight plate upgrades and what not.

As San said I would like so advice with only really having 40kg spare.

In your original post you said that over the weekend you would weigh everything that went into the caravan. Any revelations? It would be wise to have empty caravan weighed, too, as the MIRO quoted may not be its actual unladen weight. It certainly can’t be relied upon.

 

[Sam Vimes]

If it hasn't been mentioned already I always make sure the Hot Water Tank, Toilet Cistern and Cassette are always empty when traveling.

I also put the microwave in the back of the car although this is done really for another reason to do with rain/moisture getting in through the vent and making it go rusty which eventually caused the fan to pack up.

We also have what is supposedly a 4 birth caravan (Marketing exaggeration). So I removed the additional bunk mattress and sides and ladder since there's just the two of us.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Hey all, so we are about 6 months into caravaning and have a Adria Altea 542dk which has a mro of 1120 and MTPLM of 1300, but the van has a number of after market things so we have always been cautious to not put a lot in the van while towing. Today I got it weighed pretty empty (apart from hookup cable, wheel lock, water and waste bins) 1260!!!

How can I make the van lighter, I'm assuming motor mover must be 50kg, but the solar panel must be fairly light?

I'll weigh everything I had in the van over the weekend but I can't believe the shipping weight was as low as 1120

Going back to the original post....

You have four choices:-

The first is to accept the limitation and reduce what you want to put in the caravan.

The second one of removing any unnecessary items to regain some load capacity.

The third is to check with the manufacturer if there is an MTPLM upgrade available for your caravan.

And the fourth is look for a caravan with a bigger load margin.

All these points I think have been described in some of the earlier answers, along with some alternative strategies such as reducing the size or weight of certain key items. Ultimately only you can decide what is necessary to meet your needs.

 

[otherclive]

Not being awkward but I've asked a very straightforward question I would like advice on and this has turned into other people's gas bottle laws, weight plate upgrades and what not.

As San said I would like so advice with only really having 40kg spare.

A couple of bolts sheered off my motor mover which I don't know where they go and it's 12 years old, so I could repair or or utilise the extra weight as I'm not sure what else I can remove from the van

40 kg is precious little to play with even if you plan to use the caravan as an alloy tent. Remove the mover could save 32-35kg Remove all carpets. Take down curtains if you have them. If the solar panel is screwed to the roof remove it. In a previous post I asked if you could discern the make of panel and size then you could ascertain its weight. Change to a smaller amp hour battery if you will be using EHU. Buy a Gaslight small gas cylinder. Any sliding door between living area and sleeping area….remove it.

There are numerous things you can do but you’ve not said what car you have and how many travel. If it’s a pick-up you could do nothing and pile it in the vehicle. I had a van which had a very low payload around 40 kg which I hadn’t realised when I bought it. Only found out when it was weighed and found to be excessively heavy by considerably more than 200 kg. I sold it toute suite. .

 

[Lutz]

Going back to the original post....

You have four choices:-

The first is to accept the limitation and reduce what you want to put in the caravan.

The second one of removing any unnecessary items to regain some load capacity.

The third is to check with the manufacturer if there is an MTPLM upgrade available for your caravan.

And the fourth is look for a caravan with a bigger load margin.

All these points I think have been described in some of the earlier answers, along with some alternative strategies such as reducing the size or weight of certain key items. Ultimately only you can decide what is necessary to meet your needs.

Actually, you do have a fifth choice. If you are really set on your current caravan and don't want to change it, you could have the axle replaced by one with a higher load rating. It's not a cheap alternative, and it does involve quite a lot of administrative effort to make such a modification legal, especially if it was built after whole vehicle type approval came into effect for caravans in 2014. I only mention it because a colleague at work had it done. He didn't want to part with his caravan, so he had it fitted with a new axle, but it did involve a lot of time and effort to get it approved and issued with a new weight plate.

 

[otherclive]

Actually, you do have a fifth choice. If you are really set on your current caravan and don't want to change it, you could have the axle replaced by one with a higher load rating. It's not a cheap alternative, and it does involve quite a lot of administrative effort to make such a modification legal, especially if it was built after whole vehicle type approval came into effect for caravans in 2014. I only mention it because a colleague at work had it done. He didn't want to part with his caravan, so he had it fitted with a new axle, but it did involve a lot of time and effort to get it approved and issued with a new weight plate.

When I had a 1300 kg axle fail I found an Alko 1500kg one with similar dimensions and thought about going down that route. I sought Swifts advise on fitting infirmation. Not only did they not support fitting the higher load axle, but they could not even provide me information regarding my OEM axle. They referred me to to Alko UK who despite me providing photos of the failed axles bar code label and other details said they could not supply replacement without me supplying the full dimensional details of the failed axke. Neither company seemed to have an inkling of what configuration control meant.

 

[Lutz]

When I had a 1300 kg axle fail I found an Alko 1500kg one with similar dimensions and thought about going down that route. I sought Swifts advise on fitting infirmation. Not only did they not support fitting the higher load axle, but they could not even provide me information regarding my OEM axle. They referred me to to Alko UK who despite providing photos of the failed axles bar code label and other details said they could not supply replacement without me supplying the full dimensional details of the failed axke. Neither company seemed to have an inkling of what configuration control meant.

In fairness one cannot expect any support from the caravan manufacturer, in your case Swift, unless he has had the caravan type approved also with the higher axle rating. If he hasn’t, only the chassis manufacturer would be in a position to help and even then you would have to rely on his collaboration. The biggest problem is that of obtaining a new weight plate, because only the manufacturer is authorised to issue it. One would need to contact the DVSA to find out how to get around that problem. (It’s a bit easier here on the Continent as there is already a process in place how such a case is handled).

 

[otherclive]

In fairness one cannot expect any support from the caravan manufacturer, in your case Swift, unless he has had the caravan type approved also with the higher axle rating. If he hasn’t, only the chassis manufacturer would be in a position to help and even then you would have to rely on his collaboration. The biggest problem is that of obtaining a new weight plate, because only the manufacturer is authorised to issue it. One would need to contact the DVSA to find out how to get around that problem. (It’s a bit easier here on the Continent as there is already a process in place how such a case is handled).

But I didn’t even get any support from Swift to identify the axle they had fitted so I could get my Swift dealer to order and fit an exact replacement. Alko we’re not much better. The caravan build was 2012.


I recall when looking to buy a new Knaus there were options for payload capability which did involve a higher specification axle. Their website was excellent as other optional fitments had their weights included too.

 

[Lutz]

But I didn’t even get any support from Swift to identify the axle they had fitted so I could get my Swift dealer to order and fit an exact replacement. Alko we’re not much better. The caravan build was 2012.


I recall when looking to buy a new Knaus there were options for payload capability which did involve a higher speciation axle. Their website was excellent as other optional fitments had their weights included too.

Maybe Swift didn’t fit the axle as a separate item but procured the complete chassis assembly from AlKo. It that case they will only have a part number for the chassis as a sub-assembly and only AlKo would know what axle belonged to that chassis. To identify the chassis they would need the AlKo chassis number (not Swift's VIN) and that wouldn't appear on a barcode label (which is only used for logistics control purposes) but on AlKo's own type approval plate (again, not Swift's plate).

 

[Newtonian]

Didn't get chance yet we had a poorly boy. So maybe during this week I will get some sort of spreadsheet going. I think there are some extras I can remove such as a second table. Only small bits but will make a difference

In your original post you said that over the weekend you would weigh everything that went into the caravan. Any revelations? It would be wise to have empty caravan weighed, too, as the MIRO quoted may not be its actual unladen weight. It certainly can’t be relied upon

 

[Newtonian]

Going back to the original post....

You have four choices:-

The first is to accept the limitation and reduce what you want to put in the caravan.

The second one of removing any unnecessary items to regain some load capacity.

The third is to check with the manufacturer if there is an MTPLM upgrade available for your caravan.

And the fourth is look for a caravan with a bigger load margin.

All these points I think have been described in some of the earlier answers, along with some alternative strategies such as reducing the size or weight of certain key items. Ultimately only you can decide what is necessary to meet your needs.

I think I am going to remove some more items I think I can get away with.

We do have a microwave in there that was after market and I'm tempted to remove that as well or at least weight it and carry it in the car.

There is a second table, and a few other bits in the can I can shift out.

We do have a massive battery as well and are always on EHU, so may look into replacing that as well.

We don't want to change the van just her it's only been ours for 7 months

 

[Mr Plodd]

Don’t shoot the messenger. Similar tests are at 50km per hour. They are all mainly focused on crashes in cities where statistically most crashes occur. Hence one test is called Citysafe. Having seen NCAP crash test videos of cars I really cannot envisage a roof box doing anything other than breaking free of its restraints and disintegrating at higher speeds. . Even this eye wateringly expensive Swedish roof box test goes nowhere near the speeds you mention.

#1 Secured cargo - MIMsafe Carrier - Crash tested

Secured cargo with MIMsafe's luggage and ski box Carrier. Designed for ultimate safety, keeping items safe on your roof.

mimsafe.com

Having dealt with a few RTC's involving holidaymakers cars fitted with roof boxes I can say that they might just as well be made out of cheese. They part company with roof bars with what appears to be very little effort, OR the material by the catches breaks, the lid flies open, and the contents continue (briefly) on their journey forwards.
I have even seen roof boxes that have flown off and speared themselves through the back windows of the car in front following a relatively minor impact.
In brief they have zero strength, so only load them with as little weight as you can (and nothing too valuable either !)

 

[Hutch]

I think I am going to remove some more items I think I can get away with.

We do have a microwave in there that was after market and I'm tempted to remove that as well or at least weight it and carry it in the car.

There is a second table, and a few other bits in the can I can shift out.

We do have a massive battery as well and are always on EHU, so may look into replacing that as well.

We don't want to change the van just her it's only been ours for 7 months

The threads on all caravan forums tend to drift,
Trying to lower weights can be massive. Change metal knives and forks for plastic, light weight plates and bowls, remove all books except the ones your actually reading. Take only 1/2 liter of toilet chemicals.

It all depends on how basic you want to go.
We have a caravan of 1645 MTPLM and for a year going to France every 12 weeks we used to take a mini washing machine 8 kg. Cadac maybe 10 kg.
Both for us indispensable, but carried in the car.
Depends how basic you want to caravan.

 

[otherclive]

The threads on all caravan forums tend to drift,
Trying to lower weights can be massive. Change metal knives and forks for plastic, light weight plates and bowls, remove all books except the ones your actually reading. Take only 1/2 liter of toilet chemicals.

It all depends on how basic you want to go.
We have a caravan of 1645 MTPLM and for a year going to France every 12 weeks we used to take a mini washing machine 8 kg. Cadac maybe 10 kg.
Both for us indispensable, but carried in the car.
Depends how basic you want to caravan.

For one trip trip to france 15 kg of dried dog food plus numerous tins of dog food and my hand weights all found a place in the inventory. Not to mention two Lafumas.

 

[AndrewAventura]

I think I am going to remove some more items I think I can get away with.

We do have a microwave in there that was after market and I'm tempted to remove that as well or at least weight it and carry it in ...

I don't think your weight situation is too dire really, not much worse than the numbers I got when I checked mine. I did a few things like have been suggested to save a bit of weight, and then for our trips carry most of the contents like food and clothes in our car. So only about 10 or 20kg added to the caravan.
It seems like the payload allowance for virtually all caravans is quite feeble, but then quite a good thing on principle to have as much weight as possible in the towing vehicle and the trailer as light as is practical.

You've specifically said about the mover - removing that would save quite a lot of weight. But for me, I find it hugely useful. I would say essential. I reckon I'd need a couple of teenagers to manage without it.

 

[Newtonian]

I don't think your weight situation is too dire really, not much worse than the numbers I got when I checked mine. I did a few things like have been suggested to save a bit of weight, and then for our trips carry most of the contents like food and clothes in our car. So only about 10 or 20kg added to the caravan.
It seems like the payload allowance for virtually all caravans is quite feeble, but then quite a good thing on principle to have as much weight as possible in the towing vehicle and the trailer as light as is practical.

You've specifically said about the mover - removing that would save quite a lot of weight. But for me, I find it hugely useful. I would say essential. I reckon I'd need a couple of teenagers to manage without it.

Yeah I think I over reacted with such little weight.

The only reason I mentioned the motor mover is that I had a bolt and some sort of screw sheet off it and no idea where they came from yet. It's 12 years old and very rusty. Never been looked after by looks of it.

So I fear it'll be costly to repair.

I think there are some other things I can lose in the can and just be a bit clever, like get food when we get there

 

[Newtonian]

The threads on all caravan forums tend to drift,
Trying to lower weights can be massive. Change metal knives and forks for plastic, light weight plates and bowls, remove all books except the ones your actually reading. Take only 1/2 liter of toilet chemicals.

It all depends on how basic you want to go.
We have a caravan of 1645 MTPLM and for a year going to France every 12 weeks we used to take a mini washing machine 8 kg. Cadac maybe 10 kg.
Both for us indispensable, but carried in the car.
Depends how basic you want to caravan.

I'm tempted to lose the microwave it's not got proper installation or ventilation and feels dodgy

 

[Newtonian]

Having dealt with a few RTC's involving holidaymakers cars fitted with roof boxes I can say that they might just as well be made out of cheese. They part company with roof bars with what appears to be very little effort, OR the material by the catches breaks, the lid flies open, and the contents continue (briefly) on their journey forwards.
I have even seen roof boxes that have flown off and speared themselves through the back windows of the car in front following a relatively minor impact.
In brief they have zero strength, so only load them with as little weight as you can (and nothing too valuable either !)

Is that due to cheap boxes or over loading, some boxes look better made than others

 

[otherclive]

Is that due to cheap boxes or over loading, some boxes look better made than others

If you look on Youtube of crash test for boxes you will see they are only tested to 40-50kmh. Look at the video in post 41 for what is probably the best roofbox for safety, only conducted at relatively low speed and not at max load. There's is also a comparative test set of results on that post 41. Roof boxes have to be light, and are predominately all plastic. My Hapro which is tested to Citysafe has metal reinforcing in the areas where it fastens to the roof bars, but those areas are still retained ultimately by its plastic skin. I only put soft and conformal stuff in a roof box and only use around 40 kg of the available 75 kg the car can take. but even so its a weight held on with four Hapro claw fastenings, but many boxes are held on with T adaptors or U bolts. Then there are the different types of fastening for roof bars to the car. Some of these in my mind are better than others. But at the end of the day if you have a RTA at speeds much above 50kmh you can probably expect to say goodbye to your roof box and contents. But hopefully with careful driving we can avoid such outcomes.

See this video and note even the rear claw type fasteners come adrift.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=bdiKrY5l4zw&t=51s

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oksIh0f-Pmw

 

[IanB1485]

Lutz I agree with on the poor quality causing the failures, but not overloading ,- an axle fails with the warranty period. Its up to the dealer/caravan manufacturer/trailer manufacturer to prove you have overloaded it, (they may and try and fob an owner off with such a statement) , not the other way round . You just have to stick to your guns and 'go legal ' if required.I have a list of the weights of everything we put in the caravan whilst towing and have had the 'empty' ( MIRO configuration) weighed on a public weighbridge.

 

[Lutz]

Lutz I agree with on the poor quality causing the failures, but not overloading ,- an axle fails with the warranty period. Its up to the dealer/caravan manufacturer/trailer manufacturer to prove you have overloaded it, (they may and try and fob an owner off with such a statement) , not the other way round . You just have to stick to your guns and 'go legal ' if required.I have a list of the weights of everything we put in the caravan whilst towing and have had the 'empty' ( MIRO configuration) weighed on a public weighbridge.

But how can the manufacturer prove that you have never overloaded the caravan? He is never present when you load it, so how is he to know to what the caravan was ever subjected to, and which may have caused the failure? And it's not only an excessive static load that resulted in the failure, but also a dynamic one. How can the manufacturer prove that the caravan never hit a kerb or an exceptional pothole in the road which may have caused failure, for example? It is impossible unless loads are constantly monitored and transmitted back to the manufacturer.

 

[JTQ]

Is that not the essence of it legally, would the retailer not have to prove the user's abuse, if the user hung in with their claim and was not fobbed off?
The latter seems the "go to route" with retailers in this field.

 

[Newtonian]

If you look on Youtube of crash test for boxes you will see they are only tested to 40-50kmh. Look at the video in post 41 for what is probably the best roofbox for safety, only conducted at relatively low speed and not at max load. There's is also a comparative test set of results on that post 41. Roof boxes have to be light, and are predominately all plastic. My Hapro which is tested to Citysafe has metal reinforcing in the areas where it fastens to the roof bars, but those areas are still retained ultimately by its plastic skin. I only put soft and conformal stuff in a roof box and only use around 40 kg of the available 75 kg the car can take. but even so its a weight held on with four Hapro claw fastenings, but many boxes are held on with T adaptors or U bolts. Then there are the different types of fastening for roof bars to the car. Some of these in my mind are better than others. But at the end of the day if you have a RTA at speeds much above 50kmh you can probably expect to say goodbye to your roof box and contents. But hopefully with careful driving we can avoid such outcomes.

See this video and note even the rear claw type fasteners come adrift.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=bdiKrY5l4zw&t=51s

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oksIh0f-Pmw

Ok so I thought you meant generally driving was dangerous, if I crash at 50mpg while towing a caravan the few clothes in my roof box is the least of my worries right