MTPLM

[pensioner]

As I've progressed through life, I've gone from camping/cycling holidays to camping/motorbiking holidays then eventually camping/Trike and trailer holidays.
With each one weight was always an issue and with the trike/trailer I actually had to weigh all the items to ensure no overload as I've seen the damage caused if you don't.
So when we recently bought our first caravan I loaded it as required and went off to the weigh bridge,,only to find it was 20Kg over the MTPLM. Now I know there are several ways around this including getting the van re-plated,,,my question is:,,,
How many of you have actually bothered to do this,,,using the weighbridge that is,,,those I've spoken to so far look at me as though I have 2 heads!!

 

[NigelHutson]

A number of years ago, when I worked for a living as a Traffic cop, there used to be a weighbridge on a lane between the A1 and A614 in north Nottinghamshire (near Clumber Park), where one afternoon my shift had a session weighing caravans. Of the dozen or so that we weighed, only one was (just) within its permitted weight limit. The rest were all over, one by nearly a third of a tonne! As it was purely an educational excersize, no action was taken, but you can imagine the owners' surprise.

I will put my hands up and say that I have never had my current caravan weighed, and I suspect that I would be in a vast majority in that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a heck of a lot of caravans exceed their MTPLM (possibly ours at times? - although we are careful with what we take, and anything that isn't secure in a cupboard inside the caravan is carried in the car. We are fortunate in that there are only the two of us, so have that luxury. Those with families/dogs might not be so lucky. Quite honstly, the payload of most UK caravans is pathetic, to say nothing of being inadequate.

 

[ProfJohnL]

As I've progressed through life, I've gone from camping/cycling holidays to camping/motorbiking holidays then eventually camping/Trike and trailer holidays.
With each one weight was always an issue and with the trike/trailer I actually had to weigh all the items to ensure no overload as I've seen the damage caused if you don't.
So when we recently bought our first caravan I loaded it as required and went off to the weigh bridge,,only to find it was 20Kg over the MTPLM. Now I know there are several ways around this including getting the van re-plated,,,my question is:,,,
How many of you have actually bothered to do this,,,using the weighbridge that is,,,those I've spoken to so far look at me as though I have 2 heads!!

Hello Pensioner

It doesn't matter what anyone else does, what is important is that you have established your caravan is overloaded. If others cannot be bothered to ensure their outfit is legal or not is their problem not yours. Having said that there are some contributors who report they have used weighbridges.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing it safe, and at least you have, and now you know the scale of your particular problem, which should be easy to rectify. 20Kg is not much in the grand scale of things you must ensure you do not overload. Its contrary to construction and use regs, and your insurance may be invalid so it is important.

Some caravanners weigh each individual item and run a spread sheet to total it all and keep track of weights that way.

Now with regards the actual 20Kg overload, it may be that your caravan cannot be replated, so consider how you can save 20Kg, - move some items to the car, only carry 24 hours worth of food, and buy locally, etc.

 

[DeliDave_]

Now with regards the actual 20Kg overload, it may be that your caravan cannot be replated, so consider how you can save 20Kg, - move some items to the car, only carry 24 hours worth of food, and buy locally, etc.

Ours couldn't be replated , good advice

 

[RogerL]

A ruthless clearout of things you've accumulated over time may well yield the 20kg saving you're looking for.

 

[Grahamh]

We stopped off at the public weighbridge last May on our way to the ferry at Poole. Weighed both caravan and caravan + car and was rather surprised to be under the MTPLM - although I had the van replated (Elddis Xplore) when we bought it in March. I had never weighed the contents although I do check the noseweight before every trip. I try to put all the heavy stuff in the car and the awning etc goes in the top box. ( mondeo est). It defo gave me peace of mind as we trundled 3500 miles down thru Spain/Portugal.
If only I had known about electronic tolls in Portugal I wouldn't have worried at all ;-)

 

[CyberCynth]

A ruthless clearout of things you've accumulated over time may well yield the 20kg saving you're looking for.

Pensioner's just bought his first caravan, Roger, so I don't think that's an option for him!

The loading spreadsheet is a good idea, helps to remind you not to keep sticking extra stuff in the 'van! My ex and I used to use one 'in a previous lifetime', but as I'm not so good at setting one up myself, I haven't got one for the Gobur. I do, however have a generous loading margin, and as it's only me and the dog these days, I'm afraid I don't worry too much about the possibility of being overloaded.

By the way, on the subject of weight, do many of you folk use a noseweight gauge?

 

[WoodlandsCamper]

By the way, on the subject of weight, do many of you folk use a noseweight gauge?

Yes, but I prefer to use a set of bathroom scales and stick rather than the upright spring gauge.

 

[RogerL]

A ruthless clearout of things you've accumulated over time may well yield the 20kg saving you're looking for.

Pensioner's just bought his first caravan, Roger, so I don't think that's an option for him!

By the way, on the subject of weight, do many of you folk use a noseweight gauge?

Oops!

I use a cheap noseweight gauge but calibrated using the bathroom scales and re-marked at 75 and 100kg - a long way from the original markings.

Bathroom scales are fiddly to use and not possible on tour - the re-calibrated gauge does the job nicely.

 

[ProfJohnL]

.................By the way, on the subject of weight, do many of you folk use a noseweight gauge?

Hello Cynth,

Its often forgotten that exceeding a noseweight limit is illegal. Again not everyone realises the actual nose weight a trailer produces varies with its loading and the height above the horizontal, so at one height a trailer may be legal, but change the height and it may be illegal. With some trailers a change of a few centimeters can make 10s of Kilograms difference So it should be treated with proper respect and measured correctly.

The tow vehicle and trailer should be loaded with luggage and passengers just as if you are about to set off on your journey.

Find a level piece of ground big enough for the entire outfit (No slopes of any kind)

Park and choc the caravan wheels front and back do not apply the trailer handbrake

Measure the height of the hitch height from the road surface.

Uncouple the tow vehicle and move it away.

Support the trailer hitch on the vertical measuring device and adjust its height so the trailer hitch height matches exactly the measurement you took when coupled to the tow vehicle.

Read the nose weight from the measuring device.

You can achieve respectable results using a set of bathroom scales and a support strut (cut broom handle or specialist adjustable support) or raise the scales by using the caravan step and few telephone directories for fine tuning.

If you purchase a bespoke "Nose Weight Gauge" then be aware that none of them currently available allow you to compensate for different hitch heights, and despite some claiming to be calibrated, their graduations or consistency are so coarse as to be unreliable at making fine nose weight measurements. Some reports on this forum have suggested there can as much as 20Kg error - a very significant amount!!!

I cannot commend any of the retail nose weight gauges for the reasons above, BUT they will give you a very rough indication of nose weight and if they are used allowing for a typical error of 15Kg under reading, they will prevent excessive nose load errors. But why buy such device when bathroom scales are certainly no worse, and frequently better and cheaper.

 

[TrevorM]

Some time age I bought a (rather expensive) Reich Caravan Weight Control (CWC I wondered at the time if this was a sensible move, but if you take account of saved trips to the weighbridge I think it becomes a bit more cost effective. Reich claims a +/- 3% error range for this device, although I do not know if they are still available.
In my case, it takes less than 10 minutes to check nose, offside and nearside wheel weights using the 'Reich,' which allows me to confirm not only the nose weight, but also the actual laden weight of the caravan. I only do this on the initial journey, then load the 'van in the same manner for subsequent trips on that holiday.
I carry the CWC in the car boot so that if I am stopped for a check I can at least show that I take the weights seriously.
Of course at the end of the day, it is the driver who has the major effect on the safety of the outfit on the road, but that is another debate entirely.

Enjoy your holidays,

TrevorM

 

[RogerL]

I use my re-calibrated noseweight gauge before every tow - it's surprising how much it varies during a touring holiday, but with no particular pattern, despite thinking that we've loaded up exactly the same way.

 

[ProfJohnL]

Some time age I bought a (rather expensive) Reich Caravan Weight Control (CWC I wondered at the time if this was a sensible move, but if you take account of saved trips to the weighbridge I think it becomes a bit more cost effective. Reich claims a +/- 3% error range for this device, although I do not know if they are still available.
In my case, it takes less than 10 minutes to check nose, offside and nearside wheel weights using the 'Reich,' which allows me to confirm not only the nose weight, but also the actual laden weight of the caravan. I only do this on the initial journey, then load the 'van in the same manner for subsequent trips on that holiday.
I carry the CWC in the car boot so that if I am stopped for a check I can at least show that I take the weights seriously.
Of course at the end of the day, it is the driver who has the major effect on the safety of the outfit on the road, but that is another debate entirely.

Enjoy your holidays,

TrevorM

Just out of interest how do you check your nose weight with the Reich?

 

[TrevorM]

Hi Prof. We had quite a discussion on methods of measuring nose weight with the Reich a long time ago, covering taking moments about the pivot point and distances to the jockey wheel and to the coupling head, centre of mass etc., so I will not re-open the whole debate. To cut a long story short, I have checked that (on level ground, and with the coupling head at the same height as when coupled) with the jockey wheel parallel with the direction of travel and positioned at its nearest point to the coupling head, when the Reich indicates 80Kg, there is actually 75Kg at the coupling. Assuming the Reich's accuracy is indeed +/- 3% , this is close enough for me as I have a nose weight limit of 80Kg.
TrevorM

 

[ProfJohnL]

Thank you Trevor.
It saved having to try and find all the details again. So just to reiterate for the purpose of this thread I wished to clarify
for new readers, there is no substitute for doing correctly, and those tempted to use the jockey wheel must be aware that a correction must be made to obtain the true nose weight value. The correction required is not a fixed value for all caravans, it depends on the dimensions of the trailer and must be worked out for each trailer. You also mentioned aligning the jockey wheel which is also an important factor that will affect the reading on the measurement device.

It is simplest to measure at the hitch which gives you the correct value with no corrections required.

 

[RogerL]

It is simplest to measure at the hitch which gives you the correct value with no corrections required.

Except that it's not simple to measure at the hitch - because some form of height adjustment is necessary to get the hitch to the correct height for measurement.

 

[CyberCynth]

ProfJohnL: Thanks for your comprehensive reply; I really must treat myself to a set of bathroom scales and check the noseweight of my Gobur. I have just looked in the handbook for the noseweight, but can't find it, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's ridiculously low, at about 50kg. With two 15kg gas bottles that's over half my limit. Yikes. (However it does say the MIRO includes a 20kg gas bottle, the EHU lead and toilet flush liquid.) The Gobur feels as steady as a rock when towing, the only time I've had a slight wobble was in very high side winds, so I'm hoping my gas box contents are not too excessive.

 

[ProfJohnL]

ProfJohnL: Thanks for your comprehensive reply; I really must treat myself to a set of bathroom scales and check the noseweight of my Gobur. I have just looked in the handbook for the noseweight, but can't find it, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's ridiculously low, at about 50kg. With two 15kg gas bottles that's over half my limit. Yikes. (However it does say the MIRO includes a 20kg gas bottle, the EHU lead and toilet flush liquid.) The Gobur feels as steady as a rock when towing, the only time I've had a slight wobble was in very high side winds, so I'm hoping my gas box contents are not too excessive.

It would be very unusual indeed for a caravan manufacture to give you the "noseweight", All they can possibly quote is the maximum nose weight the hitch can endure, and possibly,the ex works nose weight. You will find the maximum nose weight on the data plate for the hitch ( thats and EU requirement). The ex works nose weight is of very little value because as soon as you put anything into the caravan the nose weight will change. You have arrange the items in the caravan to trim the nose weight to what you want.

The caravan industry suggest you should aim for a nose weight of about 5 to 7% of the caravans weight. For convenience use 5 to 7% of the MTPLM. However do not exceed the manufacturer's maximum nose weight limit.

 

[RogerL]

The caravan industry suggest you should aim for a nose weight of about 5 to 7% of the caravans weight. For convenience use 5 to 7% of the MTPLM. However do not exceed the manufacturer's maximum nose weight limit.

That suggestion is based on the fact that the caravan hitch limit of 100kg prevents a higher % - no science in there as far as I'm aware.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The caravan industry suggest you should aim for a nose weight of about 5 to 7% of the caravans weight. For convenience use 5 to 7% of the MTPLM. However do not exceed the manufacturer's maximum nose weight limit.

That suggestion is based on the fact that the caravan hitch limit of 100kg prevents a higher % - no science in there as far as I'm aware.

Well maths if not science ... As the majority of caravan hitches are the same design with a 100Kg limit, where the hitch is fitted to a lightweight (800kg) caravan the 100Kg could represent 12.5% which is considerable over kill. And we must not forget the car manufacturers limits which seem to be typically 60 to 85Kg for most saloon cars. :dry:

 

[RogerL]

The number of models available under 1000kg MTPLM has been very low for decades.

I've long held that noseweight should be as heavy as possible but not exceeding any limits imposed by car, towbar, towball, hitch or A-frame.

My first caravan was indeed 800kg gross (650kg net) but that was 30 years ago - if I still had it I'd be aiming for 100kg noseweight as my current car will take that.

 

[Gozza]

ProfJohnL: Thanks for your comprehensive reply; I really must treat myself to a set of bathroom scales and check the noseweight of my Gobur. I have just looked in the handbook for the noseweight, but can't find it, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's ridiculously low, at about 50kg. With two 15kg gas bottles that's over half my limit. Yikes. (However it does say the MIRO includes a 20kg gas bottle, the EHU lead and toilet flush liquid.) The Gobur feels as steady as a rock when towing, the only time I've had a slight wobble was in very high side winds, so I'm hoping my gas box contents are not too excessive.

I had a Gobur 10/2T for years before my current 'van, and never had a wobble out of it - even the day the nearside tyre blew out, it behaved itself while I nursed it to a lay by. Do they still put the battery in the gas bottle box (I'm guessing yours is a bit newer than mine was!)? With a battery and 30kg of gas in there you'd really struggle to get a sensible nose weight!

 

[CyberCynth]

ProfJohnL: Thanks for your comprehensive reply; I really must treat myself to a set of bathroom scales and check the noseweight of my Gobur. I have just looked in the handbook for the noseweight, but can't find it, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's ridiculously low, at about 50kg. With two 15kg gas bottles that's over half my limit. Yikes. (However it does say the MIRO includes a 20kg gas bottle, the EHU lead and toilet flush liquid.) The Gobur feels as steady as a rock when towing, the only time I've had a slight wobble was in very high side winds, so I'm hoping my gas box contents are not too excessive.

I had a Gobur 10/2T for years before my current 'van, and never had a wobble out of it - even the day the nearside tyre blew out, it behaved itself while I nursed it to a lay by. Do they still put the battery in the gas bottle box (I'm guessing yours is a bit newer than mine was!)? With a battery and 30kg of gas in there you'd really struggle to get a sensible nose weight!

Hi Gozza, no, the battery is in a compartment in the rear nearside. My 'van is getting on - built 1998. I carry my EHU lead in the front locker, a trolley for wheeling the loo, and my wheel chocks, so not too much in there? The gas bottles being the heaviest items.

 

[ProfJohnL]

The number of models available under 1000kg MTPLM has been very low for decades.

I've long held that noseweight should be as heavy as possible but not exceeding any limits imposed by car, towbar, towball, hitch or A-frame.

My first caravan was indeed 800kg gross (650kg net) but that was 30 years ago - if I still had it I'd be aiming for 100kg noseweight as my current car will take that.

Hello Roger.
We will have to disagree on this one. For what its worth, my view is nose weight should be as large enough to achieve a stable tow. Why load something up to its limit if a lesser amount is more than adequate. Saves wear & tare. And it may require more than necessary trimming to achieve it . For example if your upper limit is 75Kg, yet the outfit is stable with say 60Kg nose weight, then anything between 60 and 75 will suffice, but if you have got a NW of 65Kg it why go to the extra hassle of trimming up to75?

Also consider if you trim to the limit, if something moves in the caravan whilst in transit, it may increase the NW to above to limit.

 

[Dustydog]

The number of models available under 1000kg MTPLM has been very low for decades.

I've long held that noseweight should be as heavy as possible but not exceeding any limits imposed by car, towbar, towball, hitch or A-frame.

My first caravan was indeed 800kg gross (650kg net) but that was 30 years ago - if I still had it I'd be aiming for 100kg noseweight as my current car will take that.

Hello Roger.

Also consider if you trim to the limit, if something moves in the caravan whilst in transit, it may increase the NW to above to limit.

Conversely John it could go the other way and decrease the NW to an unsafe low limit which may have catastrophic consequences.
Personally I always keep the NW within 5kgs or so of the maximum limit. Never had a problem yet.
The conundrum for discussion is which is worse. Too high or too low a NW?
I suggest modern engineering practice has a designed in safety overload factor.
So go high as recommended.