Being having a few issues where I store our caravan - Dumbarton to be precise - someone slashed one of the tyres and the protec cover over the last two days - reckon I'll have to find secure storage - scunnered!
Nasty folk
- Thread starter thosoneill
- Start date
Sign of the times, I'm afraid. Some evil scumbag stole and torched a friend's newly acquired motorhome.
I can perhaps understand, but never condone, theft for gain, but why just to destroy?
I must admit that I get moments when I'm glad I am 75 years old, as I don't want to be around when anarchy finally takes over.
I can perhaps understand, but never condone, theft for gain, but why just to destroy?
I must admit that I get moments when I'm glad I am 75 years old, as I don't want to be around when anarchy finally takes over.
unfortunately not - got a crime report - fat lot of good that will be - three hundred squids worth of damage - at least it wasn't torchedCraigyoung said:
Sorry to hear of your problem, should not happen on a good storage location. But as has been said its not unique. Every Friday I buy the local paper and it makes dismal reading with the first few pages reporting malicious vandalism on cars, houses etc along with burglaries and personal attacks. And this in an area recently voted one of the best places to live.
I suspect it's always been so but the media tend to major in it. Where I grew up had its bad areas and weekends were lively in the city to say the least.
I suspect it's always been so but the media tend to major in it. Where I grew up had its bad areas and weekends were lively in the city to say the least.
Mel
Moderator
Sorry to hear this. No justification for this behaviour. It's the feeling of insecurity when these things happen, that can be worst.
Mel
Mel
Sorry to hear that, unfortunately too many scums around.
Do you not have any recourse to compensation from the storage facility?
Do you not have any recourse to compensation from the storage facility?
The caravan is located in a public area close to my house - not a secure compound - the unit does not obscure anyone's privacy as I would not want to offend anyone - so no compensation I'm afraidAnseo said:
If it's close to your house I think I would be putting it outdide of the house temporarily until you can find somewhere secure.
Sorry for the little bit of choice language on the first post which has since been edited by a mod
Sorry for the little bit of choice language on the first post which has since been edited by a mod
Parksy
Moderator
Craigyoung said:If it's close to your house I think I would be putting it outdide of the house temporarily until you can find somewhere secure.
Sorry for the little bit of choice language on tqhe first post which has since been edited by a mod
Although privately I'd agree with your sentiment, we've never allowed any form of industrial language to appear, even as asterisks.Thin end of the wedge and all that.
I pay £300 a year for very secure storage and at times I have wondered whether it is worth it. It's distressing threads like this one that convinces me that it is.
When we first started caravanning, We placed our van in one of the Cassoa Gold Storage sites, and a crazy amount it cost us per annum. Even there, with cameras, barriers and a security guard, they had a number of vans torched, occasional damage and at one point, a vagrant sleeping in one of the caravans.
Luckily for us, we had no issues, but it didn't take long for me to create a place at home for the caravan. Luckily where we live, we are just about crime free, I think just one burglary in four years but there will always be that one occasion.
Placing the caravan on public access land, and the fact that its vandalism not theft, I would be more inclined to look for a disgruntled neighbor, kids would have trashed it totally.
Luckily for us, we had no issues, but it didn't take long for me to create a place at home for the caravan. Luckily where we live, we are just about crime free, I think just one burglary in four years but there will always be that one occasion.
Placing the caravan on public access land, and the fact that its vandalism not theft, I would be more inclined to look for a disgruntled neighbor, kids would have trashed it totally.
We pay £24o on a gold Cassoa storage for ours for past 5 years , it's a long drive up with his front window in front of the drive and Barrier entry , you don't get in without saying your pitch number . And I haven't heard off anything being tampered with !
Sorry to hear of the problem. Not sure what else there is out your way but we use Strathclyde Park which is very secure and no trouble that I have heard of. May be a bit far away for you though and it is not cheap.
I'm sorry to read of the problem you have had, When you first posted i was concerned that it was about to become a complaint about a particular storage facility, which is of course against forum etiquette.
Some of the comments have suggested using alternative storage arrangements, which is of may be an option, but almost universally they have linked the concept of using a storage facility as offering better security, a point that may seem obvious but its apparently not what it seems.
If I take my car to the garage to have something fixed, I expect the garage to carry out the agreed work. If they don't do it properly they are liable for the consequences.
If I put money into a bank for safe keeping, they are liable to compensate me if it gets stolen,
If I put my caravan in storage for safe keeping, I'm responsible if it gets stolen or damaged, the site is not penalised for their failure to protect my property?????
There seems to be something wrong with reality here. :S
Some of the comments have suggested using alternative storage arrangements, which is of may be an option, but almost universally they have linked the concept of using a storage facility as offering better security, a point that may seem obvious but its apparently not what it seems.
If I take my car to the garage to have something fixed, I expect the garage to carry out the agreed work. If they don't do it properly they are liable for the consequences.
If I put money into a bank for safe keeping, they are liable to compensate me if it gets stolen,
If I put my caravan in storage for safe keeping, I'm responsible if it gets stolen or damaged, the site is not penalised for their failure to protect my property?????
There seems to be something wrong with reality here. :S
Yes recently a driver has been parking his car in front of the caravan close to the hitch despite ample parking being available - I have my own thoughts on this however I cannot point fingers without concrete evidenceThingy said:
I've never understood why cassoa sites exclude all liability yet take your money. More fools us for using them :woohoo: Yet it must be said caravan insurers encourage their use .
Personally I do not like storing the caravan at home. When you go away it's almost an advert to the undesirables the home is ready for theft.hmy:
Personally I do not like storing the caravan at home. When you go away it's almost an advert to the undesirables the home is ready for theft.
hmy:
Good grief, we were paying over £400 twenty years ago. After the troubles there aforementioned and the news that prices were going to go up, we started to price block paving.
Dustydog said:I've never understood why cassoa sites exclude all liability yet take your money. More fools us for using them :woohoo: Yet it must be said caravan insurers encourage their use .
Personally I do not like storing the caravan at home. When you go away it's almost an advert to the undesirables the home is ready for theft.
Legally they do not have any liability unless they are shown to be negligent and the contract terms make no difference to the legal position but simply restate this. Trying to exclude their negligence would fall foul of The Unfair Contract terms Act.
If the sites covered this it would mean increasing their charges as the insurance costs would go up but basically you look at their security and either accept it or not so you should be aware of the risk on the basis of this. At the end of the day why should the site operators be responsible for someone breaking into the area and damaging or stealing a caravan or perhaps the owner of the next one hitting yours when moving theirs.
Basically the site operator provides a known level of security but nothing is perfect and we all have to accept this as part of life.
If you put your car into a garage and someone breaks in and damages it then the garage is not liable if the premises were secure.
I have not come across a case of someone being burgled due to the caravan being away and the risk is low as most thefts are by opportunists. A lot will depend on where you live though, those on a main road where the missing caravan might be noticed are more at risk than those at the end of a culdesac with no passing traffic.
I'm with the Prof on this one. it is a ridicules situation. just after buying the new van in 2005 I had a short period of ill health and despite now owning a new van found it difficult to tow it for long distances. so looked for somewhere to store it nearer to a holiday spot.
when I found one the conditions of use were well restrictive. one said it had to have the gas bottle removed when not in use and no form of security device could be fitted that make the van immobile as it may have to be moved while stored. yet the site owner declined any form of responsibility for it while parked on there premises.
A look on the insurance documents for the van stated that secure devices had to be fitted while not in use or the insurance could be voided.
a bad situation all round so decided not to bother oh and it wasn't cheap either. there is something well wrong with this storage issue why should you have to accept no protection for your property while in storage.
as for the OP yes mate someone local. very local has caused the damaged they think it's fine to cause hassle for you. so you will move it. elsewhere. been there before mate.
when I found one the conditions of use were well restrictive. one said it had to have the gas bottle removed when not in use and no form of security device could be fitted that make the van immobile as it may have to be moved while stored. yet the site owner declined any form of responsibility for it while parked on there premises.
A look on the insurance documents for the van stated that secure devices had to be fitted while not in use or the insurance could be voided.
a bad situation all round so decided not to bother oh and it wasn't cheap either. there is something well wrong with this storage issue why should you have to accept no protection for your property while in storage.
as for the OP yes mate someone local. very local has caused the damaged they think it's fine to cause hassle for you. so you will move it. elsewhere. been there before mate.
Raywood said:Personally I do not like storing the caravan at home. When you go away it's almost an advert to the undesirables the home is ready for theft.
That's exactly my thought to , we live in a cul-de-sac but is busy with taxis for the old people that live beside us so I'm lucky to get the neighbour who has two cars to put one on our drive when we will be away
Hello Ray
It is common for manufacturing business to hold customers property whilst working on it. Part of the Quality Management Standards typified by BE EN ISO 9000 series makes it a requirement for the business to to prevent loss and deterioration of customers property. Bear in mind that in these cases the function of the business is not to sell or rent storage, yet they are expected to provide this degree of customer careuty of care.
It seems incredibly unfair that companies that are offering storage as their prime product can casually ignore the value of their customer property, and their duty of care toward customers and their property.
The act of storing implies that goods will be kept in a location and protected from loss or damage, and this must apply to caravan storage businesses as well as any other, and that implies security measures.
CaSSOA was started in 1999 by an insurance company, It is a private company, with no representation of end-users. It does not own storage sites, it franchises the CaSSOA brand, and advertising which majors on site security to justify higher site charges.
However whilst security may just be implied on some sites, , yet in the case of the CaSSOA scheme, it is a stated aim of the scheme operator and openly expressed in some of their public information.
see http://www.cassoa.co.uk/im-a-caravan-owner/
There is usually a cost to a site to gain accreditation to CaSSOA. The accreditation process requires the site owner to implement certain types of additional security.as detailed in the following Cassoa Link
http://www.cassoa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CaSSOA-Guide-to-Secure-Caravan-Storage.pdf
There can be no doubt that CaSSOA are using the concept of secure storage as the major selling point for their accredited sites. Meeting the standard to obtain accreditation is one thing but how many sites continue to manage the facility to the same high standard between inspections by CaSSOA? Judging by posts on here and elsewhere there are plenty that don't, so in general the high security measures are not maintained most of the time, yet customers are paying for the highest standard, but not receiving it at every site. As such if any accredited site allows a vandal or thief to gain access to the site, their systems have failed.
Fundamentally that proves their security offering is not fit for purpose, and that is a breach of the CRA that will cover the contract between the site and the customer.
Historically CaSSOA has not effectively supported end user complaints against it's franchisees, referring customers to the individual sites terms and conditions.
CaSSOA sites are selling a promise security, They should be accepting some liability if their service fails to protect customers property.
It is common for manufacturing business to hold customers property whilst working on it. Part of the Quality Management Standards typified by BE EN ISO 9000 series makes it a requirement for the business to to prevent loss and deterioration of customers property. Bear in mind that in these cases the function of the business is not to sell or rent storage, yet they are expected to provide this degree of customer careuty of care.
It seems incredibly unfair that companies that are offering storage as their prime product can casually ignore the value of their customer property, and their duty of care toward customers and their property.
The act of storing implies that goods will be kept in a location and protected from loss or damage, and this must apply to caravan storage businesses as well as any other, and that implies security measures.
CaSSOA was started in 1999 by an insurance company, It is a private company, with no representation of end-users. It does not own storage sites, it franchises the CaSSOA brand, and advertising which majors on site security to justify higher site charges.
However whilst security may just be implied on some sites, , yet in the case of the CaSSOA scheme, it is a stated aim of the scheme operator and openly expressed in some of their public information.
see http://www.cassoa.co.uk/im-a-caravan-owner/
There is usually a cost to a site to gain accreditation to CaSSOA. The accreditation process requires the site owner to implement certain types of additional security.as detailed in the following Cassoa Link
http://www.cassoa.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/CaSSOA-Guide-to-Secure-Caravan-Storage.pdf
There can be no doubt that CaSSOA are using the concept of secure storage as the major selling point for their accredited sites. Meeting the standard to obtain accreditation is one thing but how many sites continue to manage the facility to the same high standard between inspections by CaSSOA? Judging by posts on here and elsewhere there are plenty that don't, so in general the high security measures are not maintained most of the time, yet customers are paying for the highest standard, but not receiving it at every site. As such if any accredited site allows a vandal or thief to gain access to the site, their systems have failed.
Fundamentally that proves their security offering is not fit for purpose, and that is a breach of the CRA that will cover the contract between the site and the customer.
Historically CaSSOA has not effectively supported end user complaints against it's franchisees, referring customers to the individual sites terms and conditions.
CaSSOA sites are selling a promise security, They should be accepting some liability if their service fails to protect customers property.
Hi Prof, I agree the sites sell security, but nothing is foolproof. What they are selling is better, rather than perfect security, a quick walk round any site will tell you the extent of this, so you can judge for yourself if it meets your requirements and act accordingly.
I do not think it is reasonable to say that the operator must provide absolute security, that is too high a duty, but they must simply do their best, which is all you can reasonably ask.
The site in question is fairly near me but I do not know it, so cannot say what the security is, nor do I know how the persons involved got in, so I cannot comment on that. It does not appear to be a CASSOA site however.
I do not think it is reasonable to say that the operator must provide absolute security, that is too high a duty, but they must simply do their best, which is all you can reasonably ask.
The site in question is fairly near me but I do not know it, so cannot say what the security is, nor do I know how the persons involved got in, so I cannot comment on that. It does not appear to be a CASSOA site however.
Craigyoung said:Raywood said:Personally I do not like storing the caravan at home. When you go away it's almost an advert to the undesirables the home is ready for theft.
That's exactly my thought to , we live in a cul-de-sac but is busy with taxis for the old people that live beside us so I'm lucky to get the neighbour who has two cars to put one on our drive when we will be away
I would not worry about the taxi drivers as they are very unlikely to be the problem. It is undesirables passing regularly who could spot the missing caravan but I have no knowledge of that ever occurring .
Ray,
I can't agree .I'm with the Prof.
It is high time the caravan fraternity were treated with more respect from so
called caravan providers who allege safe storage but offer no reimbursement via a heavily biased contract wording. Take your money and they offer nothing. Unfair Contract Term Act? Sadly I suspect a caravanner willingly accepting the Cassoa terms will have no legal recourse. You willingly accepted their terms so tough.
As usual we tuggers accept the kick in the proverbial and pay for it !
I can't agree .I'm with the Prof.
It is high time the caravan fraternity were treated with more respect from so
called caravan providers who allege safe storage but offer no reimbursement via a heavily biased contract wording. Take your money and they offer nothing. Unfair Contract Term Act? Sadly I suspect a caravanner willingly accepting the Cassoa terms will have no legal recourse. You willingly accepted their terms so tough.
As usual we tuggers accept the kick in the proverbial and pay for it !
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